Lasers in Airspace, A view from the other side.

I don't consider the targets I point at, as... something I'm attacking. If that were the case, I've got a 13'X8' white wall to apologize to.

I HOPE that pilots don't have a bad taste for laser hobbyists, and laser professionals. I hope they can recognize that anyone who knows something about lasers in the first place, knows better.

There was, at a few points in the thread around 2008/2009 there was a member there from Aus, LambofGod, who admitted to being a laserist and many people jumped on him asking him what he did with his lasers and one suggested that he use his money to instead buy an RC helicopter which would 'surely provide more entertainment', turns out LambofGod had an RC helicopter, so that backfired on him, but they're so against lasers that even laser ADS by AdSense pissed them off to the point the admin set the forum software to replace 'laser' with 'l@ser'!

If that's how they want to be, I have no problem with that. My only issue with these guys us not their perspective, their feelings are mostly justified.. my issue is that if you're going to argue something, you've got to keep your side factual. It drives me nuts when people blow things out of proportion to help promote their point of view. To me, there's no difference between that and outright lying. They're the same.

I like flying, but if i had to chose my hobby would be and is LASERS!!!!!!!!!

ElektroFreak said:

Here's my only thoughts on that forum thread. SENSATIONALISM.

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Well, yes, but that's kind of what PPRuNe is about... and not only with lasers... You'll see posts there with like, "All of our MD-80 tails are gonna fall off!" as the title... I do agree with you, ElectroFreak, but that's kind of PPRuNe's "climate", and every forum does have one... PL is quite different from here and that's kind of PPRuNe's modus operandi. There are other aviation forums which are a bit more, may I use the word, "grounded", heh.

But, however Steve makes a good point:

LSRFAQ said:

1. I get tired of people telling me its impossible for a pointer to track/illuminate a plane. Ye old mark one mod zero human brain and hand is one of the best tracking systems that can be produced by unskilled labor.

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I can testify to this, and I wrote to Steve in PM a few months ago saying as much. My first such incident was 'hand tracked': shaky, but following me rather well, in two 'sessions'.

The biggest responses I get are, "Well, it's so far away" / "Why can't they just put a special coating on the windows?" ... I responded to that here early on, I think in my first few days of posting... But it still comes up.

.. There are two clear sides here and honestly misunderstanding on both, to some degree, is kind of the way that this goes... Unfortunately though, when it comes to hobbyists vs a profession, well... I think everyone knows where the 'court of public opinion' is going to land.

Seriously, as has been mentioned before, laser hobbyists have to establish themseles as a group that is KNOWN to be against these things. Because of the above bias, even if the pilots in a forum ARE being stupid, you just aren't going to win in the minds of the public (or legislators or law enforcement) by responding to them "in kind"...

It doesn't happen so much in LPF (maybe a tiny bit) but it concerns me whenever there's a discussion open to the public where laser enthusiasts post things like, "They're totally making it up, pics or it didn't happen" / "Well the pilots should just look away" / "The windows are on the top, how can you hit it from the bottom lol" etc ... They may 'feel good' to say but they're not helping anyone's cause.

Speaking (tenuously) from both sides of the issue ...

I agree 110% that we establish ourselves as being absolutely against endangering aircraft with lasers of all kinds. As I said in post #19, my own issue isn't with the topic being argued, it's with the tactics used.

I dont think anyone here would endorse endangering aircraft (or anything else) anyway.

Aviation has always been plagued by its unsafe image, despite it has long proven to be the safest mode of travel if you count deaths per mile travelled. Pilots think about things very differently from others. Two aircraft passing eachother within 1000 feet is considered a serious incident, of not a near collision. In comparison, two cars missing eachother by a cars length is generally not even considered dangerous, and common practice in traffic jams.

Pilots will take a one in a billion chance of a laser somehow causing a crash as serious threat, even thouh it would take a very long time statistically for such an event to occur, even if every single plane trying to land was to be 'lasered'.

We pointed it at our church across the bay, a distance of slightly less than a kilometer, and see a spot no more than an inch or two in diameter! How's that for collimation and coherence? I have never seen a LED-based l@ser with such properties.

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And then I stopped reading :banghead:

Why do they call them l@sers

Is it like a curse word over there

But yes I can see why they want them banned. There ignorant to the amount of fun lasers can be when used safely and reprehensibly. They just see it as the annoying green light they have to put up with twice a year.

It's all the fault of the assholes who point them at planes

mewrox99 said:

Why do they call them l@sers

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If they used the word "laser," Google would pick up the keyword and serve laser ads, which they do not want.

-Trevor

Just another example of the hype that we are up against.
There was a recent "laser" incident involving a Southwest Airlines 737 on approach to Dallas Love. It was reported as a laser hit and the Dallas PD heli went looking ... it turns out it was a scanning spot light on top of a nude bar on the north end of the field ... it had been there for months with proper variances.

Ive been illuminated by one of those 1million candle power spot lights you can get at Wal-Mart while I was flying a Cessna @ 2500' ... now those suck! But there is no movement to ban those. Another experience was flying over a darn illuminated highway sign about 1/2 a mile from the runway(I cant remember what airport) totally ruined my night vision, it lit up the interior like it was daytime.

I know several airline pilots and because of the nature of the job they will often exaggerate things to offset the company's natural tendency to put cost savings over safety. That ever present conflict of interests has led to the hypersensitivity seen on that board.

It's fair enough that pilots hate them.

There fears are well justified.

It's stupid idiots that point lasers at planes who are to blame. They should be murdered as a service to the universe!

Hey. You were into hobby chemistry!

So am I. I currently have a home lab and a good amount of reagents.

mewrox99 said:

It's fair enough that pilots hate them.

There fears are well justified.

It's stupid idiots that point lasers at planes who are to blame. They should be murdered as a service to the universe!

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editing away a long rant about the degradation of parenting in the US, one that was a little politically incorrect.
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Not as much as it is the lack of societal structures to teach self control.

My parents saw to it that I had access to nearly ANYTHING I wanted in terms of chems, guns, energetic materials, vacuum, glassblowing, tools, instruments.

However, my dad, a former Marine, wanted to see a safety plan in place, that I could recite from memory, and a explanation of how my actions would have a effect on others.

My parents knew where I was 24/7, and made sure that if I messed up, there was a consequence for my actions.

The problem today is lack of supervision and societal consequences. My neighbors did not fear my actions, despite a considerable "blast radius" in my back yard. They knew that if I screwed up, one, they could call my folks, and two, I would not do that again.

I don't see that today, and I would, myself, fear the consequences of calling any of my local kids parents if the kids are messing up.

There is just something wrong about both parents working 10 hour jobs and kids left on their own. The kids who are troublemakers in my hood are the "latchkey" kids, and the adults who were "latchkey kids".

No amount of rules, laws, punishment, etc makes up for society not enforcing mores. I don't care if the person misusing the pointer is 15 or 55,
most of them have never faced consequences for their actions. Nobody "grows up" on their own, that has to be the result of others around you.

Am I happy that the system is abused and joe or jane sixpack can get there hands on 200-500 mW for 200$? NO. Am I happy that said laser comes with no instruction in safety?
Am I happy that there is no test means to ensure education has occurred? NO!

But what scares me is so many people are out on their own with no sense of right or wrong.

One thing to think about. Not many people go and do "illuminations" on their own.

I hate this new keyboard, springs are way too stiff.

END RANT.

Steve

mewrox99 said:

Hey. You were into hobby chemistry!

So am I. I currently have a home lab and a good amount of reagents.

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Why yes!

I am a firm believer in your right to own a nuclear reactor in your own back yard, provided: You learn some thing, do not harm others, keep it safe, don't ruin the environment for the next user, and when your done you have 10 or more fingers, 10 or more toes, two working eyes, and are not a welfare burden on my taxes. It helps if you would do the required paperwork, as well. Perhaps more importantly then that, I would prefer you do not transfer the reactor to some one else who will not care and do likewise.

I do draw the line at culturing bubonic plague, gene splicing, and making drugs.

Be safe,

Steve

PS, Did you know that as a teen, one T. A. Edison worked and lived as a baggage guy and telegraph operator on a steam train? While he was off duty, he played with chems. He had a little lab in a baggage car, and one day he messed up, setting part of the train on fire. He got fired. One wonders, if they tossed him off the train while it was still moving.

So there is a LONG history of folks teaching themselves practical chemistry and physics. The trick is doing it safely, and the other trick is learning enough to take it to the next step, getting paid to do what you love!