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Old 06-26-2013, 07:02 PM #17
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Default Re: Laser Liability Form?

you can't have a minor sign a wavier or contract because they are, well, minors. If you ended up in court a judge would toss the wavier in the nearest trash can. You could try to get the parents to sign one saying they won't hold you personally responsible but since it's dealing with a more than likely illegal laser* that likely would not not hold up either if it came to court.



*whether we like to admit it or not 99.99999% of lasers sold here and through online sites including eBay are illegal unless they're pointers that really are under 5mw or are certified by the FDA with an accession number to have the proper safety features required by law. Even that doesn't mean they're safe. See WL as an example.


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Old 06-26-2013, 07:18 PM #18
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Default Re: Laser Liability Form?

This is the form, signed and returned to me:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7N-...RZeXk5Yms/edit

The laser in question is a 100mW SFCG 532 model.
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Old 06-26-2013, 07:42 PM #19
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Default Re: Laser Liability Form?

You may want to edit out the names for the peoples privacy
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Old 06-26-2013, 10:07 PM #20
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Default Re: Laser Liability Form?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolvo View Post
This is the form, signed and returned to me:

https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B7N-...RZeXk5Yms/edit

The laser in question is a 100mW SFCG 532 model.
Laser Liability Agreem

I, have been given parts and/ or whole rŕssembly Containing a laser diode Capable of outputting over 5mW. This is a functional (working) laser. I agree to abide by Specific state iaws, and understand the impiications this document provides under' Ohio State Law and Arkansas State Law. MY PARENT(S) OR LEGAL GUARDIAN(S) ARE RESPONSIBLE AND LIABLE FOR ANYTHING THAT MAY OCCUR INVOLVING THESE PARTS OR ASSEMBLY.

Print Parent/ Guardian Full Name Signature Print Full Name

Signature

Date

I assume you don't know providing parts to build a complete laser is a violation of federal law.
Also it is against the law for a minor in the state of Arkansas to be sold a laser and said minor can only operate it in the presence of an adult etc. Laser Pointer Safety - U.S. laws for lasers and pointers
This document is worthless legal protection.
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Old 06-29-2013, 07:04 PM #21
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Default Re: Laser Liability Form?

Give the laser to the minor's parent
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Old 07-04-2013, 11:26 PM #22
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Default Re: Laser Liability Form?

For reference UK wise (if anybody has the same issues),

It is impossible in UK law to disclaim liability for end user actions or illegal acts if you have a reasonable belief that your actions constitute an offence or will lead to an offence.
Sadly "reasonable" isn't specifically defined in law here so it comes down to the *opinion* of the judge on the day.

What it amounts to is the inability to disclaim somebodies legal rights and/or your own illegal activity.

An example:

"Returns of this item are not accepted" in a business advert on a web shop.

The law (statutory right) gives purchasers 7 days to change their minds from receipt for all online sales not conducted face to face. Ergo the Statutory Right overrules the initial sellers statement. (Distance Selling Regulations Oct 2000).

If the business states "Sales subject to no returns contract"

Again not worth the paper it's written on as the "Unfair Contracts" laws and "Laws of Tort" apply meaning if a contract tries to remove somebodies legal rights the contract is invalid no matter if it is signed or just implied.

No matter what the contractual statement or disclaimer or waiver says, you can be sued for anything, that doesn't of course mean the plaintiff will win but they can still sue you.

As Cheech said above, "sell / give the laser to the minors parent" sadly unlikely to protect you if you have a reasonable belief that the item is intended for the child.

Worse still in the UK we have "Joint Enterprise" laws, if I sell, say a firearm to a licensed holder and have any reasonable suspicion that they are going to commit say Murder with it, If they do I will be charged with murder as well as them. (similar to the US Felony Murder" laws) In the Uk it applies to ALL offences not just murder, we used to have a law called "Accessory After The Fact" but that has been superseded by the "Joint Enterprise" laws of 1995.
Laser sources, lets say Bill Bloggs wants to buy a laser from me, perfectly legal so I package up the 200 watt tube with a note stating "Dangerous Class 4 Laser Device" "Do not point at living beings or third parties"....Bill comes to pick up his tube and in passing says "Oh I just like the idea of shooting invisible beams around the local sky and area" then laughs, sure Bill may be joking but if he later does indeed start trying to shoot down the local police helicopter and mentions that he had said to me he was going to do it, even if I had considered his statement to be a "momentary utterance" (joke) then I could still be arrested and charged with the same offence as him.

Selling parts of a laser, same "Joint Enterprise" laws....you sell all the legal parts of an item having a "reasonable suspicion it is going to be assembled (what other reason could they have purchased the parts for) into an illegal item, your still going to get busted and charged with supplying the item as if it was already assembled.

If anybody is considering UK sales or exporting to the UK please consider that pretty much any disclaimer or waiver you use is going to be thrown out by a judge or magistrate in about 0 seconds flat. Once your waiver has been put in filing cabinet 13 by the end of the desk it's a fair bet your going to find yourself in hot water pretty quickly.

UK laws treat "enablers" (people who make offences possible) far harder in most cases than the people who actually commit the offence (the courts assume you have done it more than once).

Want a demonstration of how "strange" our laws are? I manufacture wooden models for adult wargame use, I am required by law to note on the packaging the warning "may contain nuts or nut extracts" in case some brain doner decides to eat them rather than build them. I also have to affix a notice stating "Choking Hazzard" as some of the parts are under a defined legal size (again in case some idiot gives the model to their kid who decides to eat it). If the buyer tells me the model is going to be given to their child when finished building I cannot sell to them unless it conforms to UK toy regulations even though I state on the packaging "Not for sale or for use by under 14 years of age" simply because the law says a child "May find the item interesting or of Play Value".

Just a few tips for any UK sellers or people wanting to export stuff here

hope it helps

best wishes

Dave

Last edited by Spooky; 07-04-2013 at 11:41 PM. Reason: Smelling Miztakez
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