I wish to thank Hemlock_Mike for his quote below as the inspiration for the title of this thread:

I have been asked “why Americans should have the right to have laser pointers and handhelds”, and honestly I just do not have a good answer at this point. Thus my question to you guys is - If tomorrow US legislators drafted a law similar to Australia’s for intent to confiscate all >1mW laser pointers, would we be able to produce a list of reasonable, justifiable and legitimate uses for laser pointers of our design?

Requested Discussion Criteria:
1) The justification for which I am seeking is of the Class IV hand held (not labbys, HeNes, or Argons) laser pointers at current attainable output ratings; e.g. >600mW 635nm, >700mW 405nm, or >1.7mW 445nm. Conversely, these class laser pointers cannot be reasonably justified for such activities as presentation pointers, star pointing, dot chasing entertainment for pets, etc.

2) It is also not my intention to argue the pros or cons of any hypothetical laser banning law within this thread, as there is already another thread where that particular discussion is taking place.

3) And for sake of sensible debate I do not wish to consider any of the following valid or legitimate uses:
a. Popping Balloons (allowing exception for removal from banquet ceilings)
b. Burning Tape, CD Covers, or Lighting Matches, etc.
c. Melting Wax
d. Flashing the Space Shuttle

As a means of further setting the stage for this discussion I wish to submit the following article:
What are laser pointers good for? -- Laser Pointer Safety

Hence, I wish to submit the First Nomination for what I believe to be a reasonable, justifiable and legitimate use of a Class IV hand held laser pointer for “Pest Removal From Salt Water Aquariums”

1st Post inquiry on LPF by rcmike on 11-26-2011, at 08:23 PM
Laser for frying pest anemones in a reef aquarium

First Confirmed Use by CalmSeasQuest on 12-05-2011, at 01:28 PM
Use of Lasers in Marine Applications Featured in Advanced Aquarists Magazine

Edit - Submission by 00Giorge for reasonable, justifiable and legitimate uses of a Class IV hand held laser pointer for Second Confirmed use for Spider Control by 00Giorge 04-21-2012, 11:18 PM and also by Sigurthr 04-22-2012, 04:06 AM

Third Confirmed Use by 00Giorge for Feline Anal Region Hair Removal 04-21-2012, 11:18 PM [Replete with images that are the Cat's Ass]

Fourth Confirmed Use by Camin for engraving & lost location beacon for search parties 04-21-2012, 11:41 AM

Fifth Confirmed Use by LaserCo for Fruit Fly Control 04-23-2012, 03:44 AM

Sixth Confirmed Use by InfinitusEquitas for use in the hard to reach places to get a bug to move 04-25-2012, 03:08 AM

Seventh Confirmed Use by LaserPointerer for sealing or repairing damaged/cracked vacuum and return tubing lines under the hood of cars 08-11-2012, 12:00 AM

Eighth Confirmed Use by ARGLaser for removing helium balloons from celling’s in banquet halls 08-13-2012, 04:25 PM

Yep, that's your typical "big government" mentality.

"We know better than you, and will do everything we can to save you from yourself."

This is exactly why I'm considering taking up coral keeping as a new hobby.

I prefer to tell them I use them for spider control and feline anal region hair removal.

This is the problem with the recent age of litigation and such... the "powers that be" use the presumed associated costs of something as the determining factor in whether or not someone should be allowed to do something.
If they believe that the costs may be recouped in some way from those same "powers that be" then they try to make it so that the typical person(s) can't have it.
What ever happened to the old ways of "Common Sense" ? (More un-common now than ever !)
There should be no reason to have to fight for your option to have and use such equipment.
The "system" should maintain the status quo of the bygone times and simply list the dangerous conditions of operation and ENFORCE penalties for those who operate their products improperly or dangerously.
So if you do something stupid - Bam - you pay the price. If that means pay a fine, lose your item, take a course, repair/replace a damaged item, or reimburse someone, etc. then that is it.
You should be free to buy a hand-held laser of what ever power you want. As long as you don't do something stupid it's an educational/scientific/safety/or whatever pursuit of a personal nature.

Now if you will excuse me, I need to define the terms for "Laser Insurance" and corner the market...

If certain people have their way we will loose our guns and lasers. Like it has happened to other countries, I guess I will become an outlaw since they are the only ones that will poses them.

Usually the problem with all legislation is that the people that do the legislating often actually know very little in actuality about the subject they are legislating against. Instead of consulting experts such as scientists, doctors, or people specializing in that parcticular field, they come to their own conclusions even though they are not specialized in the field they are legislating against.

I can think of a few other examples of this as well that I won't mention.. The fact is the government has no right to intervene with what you do, or own in the privacy of your own home as long as it is not hurting others, and owning personal laser collections or hobby experimentation with lasers is an example.

I really hate the idea of having to "prove" a reason to own a particular laser within the narrow definition of what they deem acceptable. If someone has lasers because they simply enjoy them and do so safely within their own home, then the government has no business with this since it is in the privacy of someones home and is harming no one else. If people can be trusted with firearms within a home, responsible laser owners can be allowed to have lasers and use them for any safe purpose including their own enjoyment within their own homes or property.

You are in Utah? Funny, ya said that like a Texan!

While I am not sure if Handheld laser ownership is guaranteed in the constitution - the only reason Americans need to buy, own, rent, eat, anything they can think of is "Because I wanted to"

Thats called liberty freinds... And thats what Lasers are all about.

or something...




^^ i have a sneaking suspicion that the same guys against citizens owning lasers as a general rule, probably dont have a very high opinion of private gun ownership either.

Let me ask my question again by way of this segment of the LaserPointerSafety article for which the link is within my opening post:
Are the brilliant innovative LPF builders of today paving the way for future innovation and utilization of high power hand held laser pointers with the potential of being on par (or maybe just a tad less than par) with legendary PC developers Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak, Bill Gates, or Paul Allen?

I would love to contribute to this thread but I am not allowed to because of my "lasers are more dangerous than guns" thread

Being as there is really no legitimate scientific reason to have a pointer, and that the government wants to refer to these as dangerous weapons, I'm falling back on my 2nd amendment right.

The best argument I have is for engraving, If I had a 1.8w 445, I would use it for that all the time.

-Cam

Edit: Another niche use, If you often go hiking, you could use a high powered laser as a safety device for if you get lost. Search parties would not have any trouble finding you if they saw a giant glowing beacon pointing to exactly where you are.

Why do we have to right to have high powered lasers?
I think the better question is if the government has the right to tell you that you can't.
If there is no victim, there is no crime...

Remember that the FDA is one of the federal agencies that is actively violating the 10th amendment... (along with the CSPC)

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

I do not see this as being exclusive to firearms only.

Why should one legitimate the reason for posessing anything at all?

Why would you have the right to earn a pink colored wine glass? There is little argument that it could not be substituded by a clear or red one for any reasonable purpose. Just wanting to own something seems to be a perfectly legitimate reason for people to own all kinds of things, from vintage postage stamps to jet engines.

A laser ban would have to be based on them posing an unacceptable safety hazard, which clearly is not present with responsible use. Once you start looking at the potential for -abuse-, many every day items prove far more dangerous than lasers. It would be comparable to forbid people from owning go-karts since they -could- drive them on the public road and injure someone, despite most users only use them for sports on private propery.

A bit More Food for Thought . . .

What are laser pointers and handheld lasers good for

This again all boils down to the old:
"AT RISK FALACY"
That is simply stated "If one member in a large statistical community
will use something for any bad purpose, everyone in that community
will likely do the same". Therefore, whatever it is must be legislated
out of the hands of the common tax payers.
Common folks can't be trusted to be responsible and must be enslaved.
HMike

Submission by 00Giorge of a Second and Third Nomination for reasonable, justifiable and legitimate uses of a Class IV hand held laser pointer for Confirmation is now pending (@ 00Giorge - pictures please)

1. The general rule is that if something can potentially inflict harm on another then it should be regulated.

2. The second rule is that if it can generate revenue then regulation is a really good thing </sarcasm>

Guns, Missiles, C4 plastic, Cars, Motorcycles, Airplanes etc are all regulated.

Powerboats, Lasers, Pink Wineglasses are not.

One day we might need a license for the latter - but not sure about Pink Wineglasses!

It all depends on whether the Government can find a way of generating revenues from it - from a license fee or fine for ownership.

I can confirm spider control. Some spiders around here I would not dare try to kill with any other method... a single bite and I'd be in the hospital.

There is also a problem with the "can be substituted for another safer device" argument that many would present. I could say that hammers present a clear hazard to thumbs and could easily be used as a lethal weapon. I could then say that screws should be used in place and hammers/nails outlawed.

There is such a strong urge to "baby" people now. You see it a lot in parents; "oh no, little Johnny can't go out and play on the swings, he could get a concussion!", but you also see it a lot in the government now too. As said above, so many people/agencies are trying to save us from ourselves... who is going to save us from them?

This is before:


I don't have an after, he keeps trying to chase the dot every time I turn a laser on.

Now that's the Cat's Ass for Sure!
[I have used this phrase inumerable times over the years, however this is the first time I have ever meant it both in the figurative and in the true literal sense. ]

Edit: btw - Nice homely touch of having your foot within the lower left of the image

absolutely not!

Basically i think what a lot of us are saying can be summed up in 3 words.

No New Laws.

i mean, we've got more than enough already right?

You don't know what it is like waking up in the morning and that is the first thing you see. My cat is evil I tell you! (It is Tequila Saturday, yay)

I am not originally from Utah, I grew up in Idaho. But I did spend a week in New Mexico with 3 girls from Texas and I'll be damned if I didn't go back home with an accent and a big smile!
I also have a friend that live in Galviston.

Texas girls will put a smile on your face for sure.

but three of 'em? you probably also went home with a limp!
lol!