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Old 10-29-2016, 08:26 PM #81
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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Originally Posted by steve001 View Post
There are laws against improper laser uses, however, I think the problem belies that fact that few know such laws exist.
Yeah, I'd probably bet that 95% of these laser cases are just dumb teenagers seeing if their cheapo ebay laser can tag the plane or helicopter. They probably don't even know they're committing a serious crime. Personally I'd almost be fine if ebay/amazon etc simply banned ALL laser pointer sales. That would probably be more effective at stopping these incidents than a blanket ban on certain laser colors.


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Old 10-30-2016, 12:55 AM #82
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

Reduced availability may help to some degree. As you mention a lot of the cases where aircraft are struck by lasers are caused by teenagers, or other clueless people, pointing the things around.

The question is how one would go about this problem. One intersting example is HAM radio transmission where you can do quite a lot but need to get a license to prove you have basic knowledge of the technology.

In the past this worked fairly well as building a transmitter was a fairly complicated thing to do. Today these things are offered on ebay and aliexpress at very affordable prices, including some clearly illegal to operate (without a specific license) units like FM broadcast transmitters outputting several (hundreds) of watts.

Going for some system where you need a license to operate powerful lasers in itself isn't a bad idea, but i'm affraid it will be impossible to enforce this.

It would make operating a powerful laser without a license a crime, but the problematic cases are already felonies like interfering with air traffic or endangering the lives of motorists.
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:40 AM #83
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

How about the FDA invest in an ad, during the super bowl this year, to explain the law and dangers, and also advertise the consequences. Wouldn't that have a larger affect than banner certain colors of lasers? Quite expensive option though hehehe.
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:49 AM #84
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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How about the FDA invest in an ad, during the super bowl this year, to explain the law and dangers, and also advertise the consequences. Wouldn't that have a larger effect than banning certain colors of lasers? Quite expensive option though hehehe.
Unfortunately, that's a bit too idealistic. The government wants to minimize costs, and it is much cheaper to make a law than it is to purchase a Super Bowl ad.
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:53 AM #85
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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Old 10-30-2016, 04:12 AM #86
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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Originally Posted by Sta View Post
Unfortunately, that's a bit too idealistic. The government wants to minimize costs, and it is much cheaper to make a law than it is to purchase a Super Bowl ad.
It's pretty darn hard to pass a law, with the two houses and everything, and then for the president to sign it. Could happen with Hillary though.
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Old 10-30-2016, 01:52 PM #87
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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Originally Posted by Razako View Post
Yeah, I'd probably bet that 95% of these laser cases are just dumb teenagers seeing if their cheapo ebay laser can tag the plane or helicopter. They probably don't even know they're committing a serious crime. Personally I'd almost be fine if ebay/amazon etc simply banned ALL laser pointer sales. That would probably be more effective at stopping these incidents than a blanket ban on certain laser colors.
Recall it's not only color, but output limited to <5mw. Should this come to pass anyone wanting a high power other color laser will be a diy laser.
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:16 PM #88
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

Lasers will get more and more powerful and cheaper and cheaper with mass production and the evolution of the technology over time will make better lasers affordable for the masse.
It's not that super powerful lasers don't exist, they do, but what is affordable by the masses and what will be in time with mass production/sales driving the market ?

Just like the multi rotor flying toys, they get stronger and cheaper and people start attaching weapons to them.

Are airplanes falling from the skies? NO!

Our "representatives" who live very comfortable lives wanting for very little, with their own special healthcare and immune to the laws they pass for us do not want the wage slave taxpayers getting interested in technologies that could pose a threat to their plush elitist lifestyles.

They desperately want to take away our guns and our voices as it is.
Why would they not want to make lasers unattractive, people are pretty tired of the 5mw red but a visible beam 5mw green sparks new interest and that grows into a hobby that drives an affordable evolving market that could pose a threat to their control. Deny the masses anything potentially dangerous to their ongoing gravy train, a gravy train that has run up a 20 trillion dollar debt that the masses must pay now that China is a member of the world bank and can set prices, we will not get out of this debt through inflation as we did after WWII, no, China will see that we and our future generations pay this debt.

Anything, even knowledge that could result in a force multiplier they want to deny the masses, keep them fighting with each other and watching the Kardashians, that's all the entertainment they need and it's no threat to them.

In England they want to ban pointy knives and allow only round ended knives, there is no end to tyranny and the lust for total control.

For the elitist money burning tyrants lavish lifestyle to survive, the wageslaves will have to work harder and make do with less, and they don't want them empowered, not even with knowledge, keep them fighting with each other through misinformation, make them hate the rich business owner who employs them and ignore the rich tyrants who pull all the strings.

We are supposed to be free, responsible for our actions, but none the less free. That thin façade is about the only thing that's transparent.
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:17 PM #89
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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Why do I have so little faith anything they receive from the public will make absolutely no difference to them at all, they have already made up their mind and short of the law causing deaths, I don't see how they would back off on this. Perhaps that attitude and point of view is exactly what they want, just shut up and do what we say...
The FDA does listen to comments, and has made changes -- or even dropped proposals -- based on those comments. Even just one person who has the right approach and arguments can make a difference.

There are two general ways to do this. You can do one or both.

The first way is to write to the address listed in the first post on this thread. That would be just a kind of general, free-floating comment since it is not tied to a specific request for comments.

The other way is to wait until FDA announces their "final rulemaking" in the Federal Register -- I'm sure that I or someone will post to LPF at that time. You then have 90 days to respond with comments. FDA is legally required to consider those comments.

Of course, eventually they may not do what you or I want -- but they really do listen and have made changes due to comments.
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:31 PM #90
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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Recall it's not only color, but output limited to <5mw. Should this come to pass anyone wanting a high power other color laser will be a diy laser.
To clarify...

1) The FDA's proposal would restrict the import, manufacture and sale of handheld, battery-powered laser pointers. This includes sighting lasers such as gun sights and bore sights. For reference, here is the exact definition they are proposing:
Laser Pointers may be defined as handheld laser products designed for battery-powered operation that are manufactured, designed, intended or promoted to provide illumination, designation of a target or point of origin, or sighting, with no associated technological or scientific purpose for the laser’s emission. Laser products are not excluded as laser pointers when used for visual entertainment, vision disruption or startle or novelty purposes.
2) DIY is still OK. As indicated in a recent update to my story, "Individuals such as hobbyists who manufacture their own laser products for their personal use would be free from FDA laser product regulations. This is because such individuals would not be considered manufacturers by FDA."

3) It is not clear how the FDA proposal would work for persons who can't make their own laser pointers, and who legitimately need colors other than red and/or powers above 5 mW. Such individuals would be able to possess and use these lasers under federal law. (Remember, FDA only can stop import, manufacture and sale.) But FDA has not said whether or how manufacturers could sell non-red or >5mW laser pointers to persons who need them. My question: how would such a person prove a need, without some sort of licensing or permitting system?

I have suggested to FDA that they need to work this out better. This is both for logical reasons and because it may help them gain more support among persons who might have a demonstrated need for non-red or >5mW handheld lasers or gun sights.

In the meantime, to give some reference material, I put up a webpage listing the various countries or locations that have laser licenses or permits.
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Old 10-30-2016, 03:43 PM #91
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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Recall it's not only color, but output limited to <5mw. Should this come to pass anyone wanting a high power other color laser will be a diy laser.
Nah, actually we'll still just order them from China and they'll come labeled as a flashlight or something. The lasers we order are already illegal to import. IDK why they're passing a law which seeks to ban the safer <5mw variants. This law literally won't do crap to stop the import of the most dangerous lasers. Only way to truly ban lasers would be for our government to convince China to stop sending them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
Lasers will get more and more powerful and cheaper and cheaper with mass production and the evolution of the technology over time will make better lasers affordable for the masse.
It's not that super powerful lasers don't exist, they do, but what is affordable by the masses and what will be in time with mass production/sales driving the market ?

Just like the multi rotor flying toys, they get stronger and cheaper and people start attaching weapons to them.

Are airplanes falling from the skies? NO!

Our "representatives" who live very comfortable lives wanting for very little, with their own special healthcare and immune to the laws they pass for us do not want the wage slave taxpayers getting interested in technologies that could pose a threat to their plush elitist lifestyles.

They desperately want to take away our guns and our voices as it is.
Why would they not want to make lasers unattractive, people are pretty tired of the 5mw red but a visible beam 5mw green sparks new interest and that grows into a hobby that drives an affordable evolving market that could pose a threat to their control. Deny the masses anything potentially dangerous to their ongoing gravy train, a gravy train that has run up a 20 trillion dollar debt that the masses must pay now that China is a member of the world bank and can set prices, we will not get out of this debt through inflation as we did after WWII, no, China will see that we and our future generations pay this debt.

Anything, even knowledge that could result in a force multiplier they want to deny the masses, keep them fighting with each other and watching the Kardashians, that's all the entertainment they need and it's no threat to them.

In England they want to ban pointy knives and allow only round ended knives, there is no end to tyranny and the lust for total control.

For the elitist money burning tyrants lavish lifestyle to survive, the wageslaves will have to work harder and make do with less, and they don't want them empowered, not even with knowledge, keep them fighting with each other through misinformation, make them hate the rich business owner who employs them and ignore the rich tyrants who pull all the strings.

We are supposed to be free, responsible for our actions, but none the less free. That thin façade is about the only thing that's transparent.
You bring up some interesting points. For all we know, the government are simply looking for any excuse to crush interest in the laser hobby in general. It's a 'scary' hobby similar to drones, shooting or pyrotechnics. The elites don't want us peasants experimenting with things that can be used as weapons. Imagine a showdown between riots and the police. Now imagine what might happen if some of the rioters started using high powered lasers to blind the police responding to the riot. Things could turn ugly in a hurry. We view these devices as toys, but they actually have legitimate tactical value. They can blind approaching vehicles, deter helicopter surveillance, make it hard to land planes, and potentially be used to flash blind adversaries in conflict. All of this scares our government (and it should considering how they don't really work for the people anymore).
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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Originally Posted by pmurph5 View Post
The FDA does listen to comments, and has made changes -- or even dropped proposals -- based on those comments. Even just one person who has the right approach and arguments can make a difference.

There are two general ways to do this. You can do one or both.

The first way is to write to the address listed in the first post on this thread. That would be just a kind of general, free-floating comment since it is not tied to a specific request for comments.

The other way is to wait until FDA announces their "final rulemaking" in the Federal Register -- I'm sure that I or someone will post to LPF at that time. You then have 90 days to respond with comments. FDA is legally required to consider those comments.

Of course, eventually they may not do what you or I want -- but they really do listen and have made changes due to comments.
Have you included this page https://www.regulations.gov/ ?
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Old 10-30-2016, 04:12 PM #93
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

Look at all of these lasers pointing at this helicopter and it didn't crash! How did that happen?

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Old 10-30-2016, 04:30 PM #94
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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Originally Posted by Razako View Post
Only way to truly ban lasers would be for our government to convince China to stop sending them.
Actually, FDA is working on that. Both legally and culturally this is proving difficult.

But they are trying, you have to give them that. They are trying to do exactly what you suggested.
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Old 10-30-2016, 04:32 PM #95
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

Protective window film, protective helmet visor, gun site camera is right in front of his eye underneath the visor.

Like I said pilots could wear a visor or pair of safety glasses when under 5000 feet, otherwise the angle into the cockpit makes striking a pilots eye only possible from another aircraft short of being on top of a building at a very long distance and through a lot of moist air.

Except at take off and landing the best focused green laser is not any more than a mild annoyance, much like our new led streetlights and that bright undiffused spot we all see every night and have learned to ignore.

Oh and I just love all these pulsed LED tail lights, that's not annoying.....yes it is, but we deal with it, 100's of millions of times each night.
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Old 10-30-2016, 04:46 PM #96
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Default Re: FDA wants to restrict green & blue laser pointers as "defective"

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Originally Posted by steve001 View Post
Have you included this page https://www.regulations.gov/ ?
Steve --

I think regulations.gov is for people to submit comments on rules, proposals, etc. that have been officially submitted to the Federal Register (or to regulations.gov) where the agency is asking for comments.

I looked on regulations.gov briefly for FDA's 60-page document submitted last week to the TEPRSSC committee; the one that proposed the laser pointer changes. I did not see it at regulations.gov. I believe it was only for TEPRSSC comments at this time.

The FDA's 60-page TEPRSSC submission is here. The general laser-related changes begin on page 21, with the laser pointer proposal starting on page 29.

Since the document is public information, anyone can contact the FDA's general comment email or phone number to give input.

I believe the best phone/email for commenting right now is as follows:
800-638-2041
301-847-8149 Fax
DICE@fda.hhs.gov

Once FDA publishes a final proposal in the Federal Register, the comment period will open up and people can submit using regulations.gov.

[Disclaimer: I'm not a government comments or regulatory specialist, so there may be other ways to have your voice heard. For example, a person or group can submit a petition for lawmaking to FDA, but that is a different and more complex process. Or you can contact your congressional representatives and ask them to come up with a proposed law, or submit ideas for a law.]
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