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Old 07-31-2013, 01:35 PM #1
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Default FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

In June, the FDA published a notice in the Federal Register of proposed changes to U.S. laser product regulations. The public is invited to comment; the deadline for comment submission is September 23 2013. FDA must evaluate and respond to comments (even if they choose to ignore them), so if you have comments this is your opportunity.

Most of the changes involve making U.S. laws closer to the international IEC 60825 standard. This makes it easier for manufacturers to meet both standards with one set of labels, controls, etc.

One major change that FDA proposes is a new class of specific purpose lasers, "children's toy laser products." This would join the current medical, demonstration and "surveying, leveling and alignment" (SLA) specific purpose lasers as the only laser uses that FDA can regulate.

(As you may know, laser pointers are classed as SLA and/or demonstration products which is how FDA asserts its authority over pointers.)

FDA says the new "children's toy" category could include lasers intended for creating entertaining optical effects. It is defined as "a product that is manufactured, designed, intended or promoted for use by children under 14 years of age."

The children's toy products would be limited to Class 1 (less than 1 mW), even for the internal laser. This is because if the product is disassembled or broken, FDA does not want laser power above Class 1 to be emitted.

Note that a children's CD or DVD player would have a laser above Class 1 and in theory could be banned under the new FDA proposal. (Although in the introduction FDA says they would only regulate toys emitting laser beams, in the actual proposed regulatory language this is NOT stated -- only that the product contain a laser and be manufactured, designed, intended or promoted for use by children under 14.)

Links to the Federal Register proposal, and to the addresses for sending comments by the Sept. 23 2013 deadline, are in a news story at http://www.laserpointersafety.com/ne...cd4579-331.php


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Old 07-31-2013, 01:39 PM #2
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

I found leds more dangerous than a 1mW laser. Will they be banned too?

Seriously... there had any incidents with class 1 lasers on usa? Why those guys are tinkering with that??...
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:15 PM #3
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

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Originally Posted by Leodahsan View Post
I found leds more dangerous than a 1mW laser. Will they be banned too?

Seriously... there had any incidents with class 1 lasers on usa? Why those guys are tinkering with that??...
LED's are specifically not included: "Note to paragraph (a): Sections 1040.10 and 1040.11 are not applicable to light emitting diodes (LEDs) or products containing LEDs unless such products are also laser products as defined in 1040.10(b)(4)."
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:33 PM #4
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

cool, next time I'm going to buy some kind of gun for my son. If a DVD player is such a dangerous weapon...

-mo-
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Old 07-31-2013, 02:41 PM #5
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

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Originally Posted by Leodahsan View Post
I found leds more dangerous than a 1mW laser. Will they be banned too?

Seriously... there had any incidents with class 1 lasers on usa? Why those guys are tinkering with that??...
I am not sure what you are asking about, regarding Class 1 lasers in the U.S. Here is some information which may be applicable.
1) I am not aware of any eye injuries from a Class 1 laser in the U.S.

2) According to FDA as of April 2012 they have never received a report of eye injury from momentary exposure to laser pointers of Class 2 and Class 3R (e.g., below 5 mW).

3) There are a number of reports of injuries, both temporary and permanent, to persons from deliberate exposure to laser pointers. Often this is self-inflicted or may be inflicted by a classmate (bullying). I suspect most are Class 3R but there may be some Class 2's involved.

4) I have been tracking laser incidents since 2008. I am not aware of any actual or claimed injury from a toy containing a laser. All actual or claimed injuries have been from laser pointers or other types of lasers (non-toys).
For data please see the following sources. Note that some stories may be from outside the U.S.
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:41 PM #6
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

A high brighness led is more damaging than a 1mW laser imo.

@pmurph5
Thanks for the info
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:46 PM #7
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

This seems to be a well intentioned, but poorly written, and not thought out update to the regulations.
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Old 07-31-2013, 07:47 PM #8
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

I bet this is partly because of this:
Blue Laser Lamp- with passive cooling technology by Richard Redpath ? Kickstarter

A blue laser night light FOR KIDS.

Terrible idea. What happens in a kid sticks their face into the aperture?

I doubt they did the MPE calculations.

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Old 07-31-2013, 07:59 PM #9
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

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It's an awful idea on so many levels. Would be far better with a green diode...
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Old 08-01-2013, 06:56 AM #10
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

The problem this time doesn't seem to be much related to the actual change, but more the idea behind the change. The Nanny State will continue to gain power with every small change, until the mass of small changes effectively enacts a large change. "Hello, we're from the Gov't, and we're here to protect you from your freedoms.". A cage is still a cage no matter how cushy the walls.

This time it is only cd and dvd players being victimized, but again, with each advance in regulations we are left with less and less footing before we're left upon the precipice with no foothold to stand on.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:25 AM #11
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

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Originally Posted by InfinitusEquitas View Post
It's an awful idea on so many levels. Would be far better with a green diode...

I want one "Laser Grenades" wonderful idea.....

How long before some brain donor works out you can turn it on and lob it into the room full of drunks who will be so pissed they will sit staring at the pretty lights.


I must have a dig in my Uni files, there was some research done years ago at Harvard regarding the effects of high intensity blue light on the brain.......it slips my mind the details but it was an effect that was very unexpected...

back in a bit when I find it

cheers

Dave

here is one of the links to some research done with high brightness blue LED's

Blue Light Purkinje Shift

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Old 08-11-2013, 12:47 AM #12
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

+3 to the OP- this kind of stuff we all need to read and know about- lots of great posts too.
A week from Monday I will take the 8 hours Laser safety officers Class and exam.(ouch 445$$)

I will be showing this thread to the teacher ( Greg M. from ILDA) so what I hear back will be posted in this thread.

ty for making this thread..

hak

edit--duh!

Greg and Patrick are associates and I am sure he was aware of all this before we heard about it.


Not sure there is a whole lot we can do to keep our rights ownership of high power portables== just explaining why we feel the need to own them is a losing battle. I am all for a permit that shows we are responsible adults and not idiots. We CAN continue to use caution selling and building for others. We can be proactive when we see someone doing the 'stoopid'.

There currently is a PSA for the kiddos regrading the dogs they encounter.


Very many dog bites can be averted- one part mentions asking the dog's owner for permission to pet and another makes them promise to never sneak up on a dog or touch them when the dog is unaware. Just common sense that children do not already possess.
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Old 08-11-2013, 12:49 AM #13
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

I've been tempted to open up my computer case to take care of some of the blue LED's in it for a while now.

Whenever I do get around to upgrading, killing the blue LED's in there is on the to do list.

Also I wear blue blocking goggles/glasses all the time while driving. I keep a set of Uvex goggles in my car On a super bright day, driving with the sun in front of me, they help immensely, going over my sunglasses.

I have also experimented with wearing them before sleep, and I think there is some benefit to it...

I did disable the blue LED on my computer monitor power switch, and also covered up LED's on my speakers, and headset with electrical tape.

The concept is interesting, but using a blue laser diode for indoor lighting... that would be hell to me.
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:43 AM #14
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

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Originally Posted by hakzaw1 View Post
+3 to the OP- this kind of stuff we all need to read and know about- lots of great posts too.
A week form Monday I will take the 8 hours Laser safety officers Class and exam.(ouch 445$$)

I will be showing this thread to the teacher ( Greg M. from ILDA) so what I hear back will be posted in this thread.

ty for making this thread..

hak
Ha a laser class that costs $445, I bet you have the blues...
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Old 08-11-2013, 04:29 PM #15
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bacon View Post
Ha a laser class that costs $445, I bet you have the blues...
good pun!

this is the shorter discounted version- some pat 3X that and the class is several days- AFAIK there are less than 50 ILDA trained LSOs in the USA. in our lawsuit crazy country one of the best defenses is to have a LSO on staff.

lawsuits are not judged the same as criminal cases-(beyond a reasonable doubt)

There is a mountain of paperwork required to display ANY lasers in public. So, in court if the forms and plans are not done you have VERY little chance of winning.

I need a JOB!!
Between 911 and the collapse of Enron and my needs i have spent or lost all of my IRA--Hiring a LSO AFTER being sued is too late.

The exam has a 50% fail rate IIRC- and that is bad considering the test is open book and we can also use or PCs. 43 Qs to answer in 2 hours max.

I am SO lucky and blessed with friends helping me prepare for this.. wish me MORE luck my 'nerddizzles'

hak
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Old 08-11-2013, 06:24 PM #16
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

LSO is a pretty useful qualification to have if you want to work with lasers professionally

Best of luck to you Hak and if I can help with anything feel free to let me know.

Quote:
Ha a laser class that costs $445, I bet you have the blues...
That's pocket change compared to what LSO's can command as salaries on the open market.

best wishes

Dave
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