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Old 08-12-2013, 12:50 AM #17
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

wow, you should make a thread with some of the questions / samples (OR AT LEAST the hard ones) .
Where do you study for it? Is it a formal book or some electronic book, or any samples? Although it might crush me I wouldn't mind seeing what it looks like...


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Old 08-12-2013, 05:18 PM #18
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

Hey guys, im not sure i am COMPLETELY informed on this issue, but i just posted this on regulations.gov:

Lasers are already limited enough. The only reason lasers above 5mw have been banned is because higher power lasers were tested in the worst possible conditions (point blank range, focused to a point). Now, you may say that your job is to protect and keep the consumers safe, but the truth is, a certain amount of responsibiity should be bestowed to the consumer. You can, in a way, compare lasers to guns. Guns can hurt people, and so can lasers, however, guns are not banned, but lasers are (almost ALL of them). See, with a gun, comes responsibility that you will not harm others with it. It should be the same with lasers.

And here comes the class 1 laser bit. The truth is, if a parent buys their child a laser (at or above 5mw) , and that child decides to shine it in their own eye, or someone else's, that's the parent's fault. Children aren't responsible, and changing the limit for 1mw is ridiculous. This barely even makes it a cat toy. The range is miniscule, and you would be effectively taking all meaning out of having a pointer.

This goes for internal laser components as well. Having only class 1 laser diodes inside children's products will render most of them useless. This is a bad decisions at best.

The truth is, people will get ahold of lasers no matter what, because laser diodes are everywhere in electronics. Banning them isn't going to help, and will only cause problems.

Any rebuke you have for any of the comments in the entry will be answered with a answer that applies because this proposal is 101% ridiculous. Laser products are a part of our lives, and limiting them would be like banning the milkshake machine from McDonald's.

I urge everyone to go against this proposition, or it can damage a multitude of products, manufacturers, and even consumers like me.


I hope this properly addresses the issue, or did i get something wrong?

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Old 08-12-2013, 07:35 PM #19
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

Quote:
Lasers are already limited enough. The only reason lasers above 5mw have been banned is because higher power lasers were tested in the worst possible conditions (point blank range, focused to a point). Now, you may say that your job is to protect and keep the consumers safe, but the truth is, a certain amount of responsibiity should be bestowed to the consumer. You can, in a way, compare lasers to guns. Guns can hurt people, and so can lasers, however, guns are not banned, but lasers are (almost ALL of them). See, with a gun, comes responsibility that you will not harm others with it. It should be the same with lasers.

And here comes the class 1 laser bit. The truth is, if a parent buys their child a laser (at or above 5mw) , and that child decides to shine it in their own eye, or someone else's, that's the parent's fault. Children aren't responsible, and changing the limit for 1mw is ridiculous. This barely even makes it a cat toy. The range is miniscule, and you would be effectively taking all meaning out of having a pointer.

This goes for internal laser components as well. Having only class 1 laser diodes inside children's products will render most of them useless. This is a bad decisions at best.

The truth is, people will get ahold of lasers no matter what, because laser diodes are everywhere in electronics. Banning them isn't going to help, and will only cause problems.

Any rebuke you have for any of the comments in the entry will be answered with a answer that applies because this proposal is 101% ridiculous. Laser products are a part of our lives, and limiting them would be like banning the milkshake machine from McDonald's.

I urge everyone to go against this proposition, or it can damage a multitude of products, manufacturers, and even consumers like me.
+rep for giving it a go my friend

Could I make a few suggestions?

Quote:
Lasers are already limited enough. The only reason lasers above 5mw have been banned is because higher power lasers were tested in the worst possible conditions (point blank range, focused to a point).
May I respectfully suggest further restrictions on laser may well be counter productive as all though the testing is empirically correct it does neglect to take into account a few unstated variables in nominal applications of lasers?

Quote:
Guns can hurt people, and so can lasers, however, guns are not banned, but lasers are (almost ALL of them).
(ummm never compare something that is banned to something that isn't, point scoring political people will simply try to ban the thing that isn't (such as the guns)) + if the political representative is already an anti gun guy then you just lost their support.

Quote:
The truth is, if a parent buys their child a laser (at or above 5mw) , and that child decides to shine it in their own eye, or someone else's, that's the parent's fault. Children aren't responsible,
nononono "children aren't responsible" is a great way to get age restrictions as well as power restrictions implemented. It would be better to address the problem as such:

While we understand that in the wrong circumstances lasers can fall in to the hands of less responsible persons we believe that education is the way forward to ensure the correct use rather than an outright ban.

Quote:
The range is miniscule, and you would be effectively taking all meaning out of having a pointer.
Simply countered by asking what you need an uber laser for? "pointer" by their very description is for displaying or locating items at reasonably short distances. It could be used to attack any pointer with a less visible wavelength or invisible wavelength.

Quote:
This goes for internal laser components as well. Having only class 1 laser diodes inside children's products will render most of them useless. This is a bad decisions at best.
"May I direct you to research that shows commercial items such as DVD players that are in use by younger members of our society are intriniscly safe if not tampered with" (insert links to numerous daily use items that use lasers)

Quote:
The truth is, people will get ahold of lasers no matter what, because laser diodes are everywhere in electronics. Banning them isn't going to help, and will only cause problems.
Oh dear, political functionaries love power, no matter how much they have they will always desire more. Telling them "F*** you we will get them anyways" really isn't a good move.

Quote:
Any rebuke you have for any of the comments in the entry will be answered with a answer that applies because this proposal is 101% ridiculous.
Sadly comes across as "I'm right, your wrong and I'm not listening to your shit anymore"

Quote:
and limiting them would be like banning the milkshake machine from McDonald's.
Ummm the people reading it may despise milkshake, they may believe milkshake is a health hazard they may also just say "Nobody has ever been blinded by a milkshake"

If I could suggest a few changes?

---------------------------------------

Dear Sirs,

Having read your recent proposals for the prohibition of some classes of laser I felt compelled to offer my humble opinion on why this may be counter productive.
On a daily basis all of us will use lasers of some kind, a number of these will be above the empirical danger level of 5mW however I would like to draw your attention to the fact that many of the items that use such lasers are intrinsically safe by nature of their manufacturing method and present no signifficant risk to the users.
While I fully accept and support our Government in protecting the people I believe the purpose may be better served by education rather than restriction of laser products. History has always demonstrated that an educated populace is better than a legislated populace in that it permits experiment and investigation to prosper. In this financially pressured time I believe that development of American made products will be restricted by implementing a ban so leaving us as a nation at a disadvantage compared to our over seas and far eastern business competitors.
If I may be of assistance in sharing my own experiences please feel free to contact me.

Name:
Address:
Email:
Phone:

---------------------------------

Give that a go brother

cheers

Dave

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Old 08-12-2013, 08:45 PM #20
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

Mr Murphy is very highly regarded. Talk with anyone in the know about lasers and his name comes up often. Personally I am for some kind of permit to own lasers over 5mW- The cost should be no higher than what the enforcement costs-- until that happens all laserists including those at the 'hobby' level need to protect themselves and the rest of us with an active approach to laser safety-
NOT Selling-lending etc any laser to another individual that has no understanding of the danger is one of the ways we can keep our rights to own. There are already many laws that can IMHO apply to lasers used in public- like 'reckless endangerment' we don't need a law that bans waving a running chainsaw in a dangerous manner in a crowd of people..

you should be smart enough to not use a bow and arrow around people and if you were an archery fan it would be wise to take an active apporach to protect not only people but your right to practice your hobby but ONLY is a non reckless manner.

I would no more hand a 'loaded' handheld laser to another person than I would hand over a gun without first removing the ammo. I have done this several times with both friends and strangers- all ask the same thing--why did you do that?. My answer is simple- that is the ONLY safe way. just like guns. ....if they will listen to my 60 second safety lecture and agree to my conditions THEN I MAY put the batteries in the laser for them.

I read that humans can blink or look away from a laser in about .25 seconds- pretty quick BUT not quick enough for avoiding some possible damage to your eyes depending upon the power. We are both cursed and protected with the current Regs from ANSI and the FDA- Thus many outdoor lasershows and almost all audience scanning are no longer happening very often.

Pilots AFAIK are required now to report any laser 'sightings'- while before it was only reported if a laser was pointed at the aircraft, now all are reported= before IIRC 700+(in a year in USA) incidents and the change more than 7,500 in a single year and here in Dallas Texas are the highest number of reports. Don't quote me on those numbers but I think that is correct.
Parental control is very important- but we all need to do what we can -- IMO a high number of children WILL 'PLAY' with a parent's laser given the chance- Just like guns , lasers need to be stored away securely and under lock and key.

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:11 PM #21
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

A lot of the problem will be votes Hak, Political representatives rarely if ever give a dam what you or I want, they just look at what will get them the most votes

I honestly believe education is the key, if as a group we can try to educate the less responsible people then the problem will self manage.
Similar to gun control, those with the most vocal opposition to firearms have never been near one or have caused an incident by their own negligence.

Blame the tool not the workman seems to be the order of the day.

I went through all this kind of thing 20 years back over here with gun control discussions / political meetings. Trust me, the average political jobsworth thinks of you, me and the rest of us as "lesser beings" who are simply there to keep them in office. A large number assume we are uneducated fools so I found the only way to negotiate with them is the appearance of no margin. Give them anything they can twist and they will

cheers

Dave

ps: Who is Mr Murphy?

scrub that, just read back

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:51 PM #22
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

Patrick Murphy is the OP and..

Executive Director at International Laser Display Association++(ILDA)

February 2006 – Present (7 years 7 months)
and
Founder, ex-president at Pangolin Laser Systems.

1988 – 2001 (13 years)
he is also a member of LASER Safety Professionals
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Old 08-12-2013, 09:57 PM #23
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

Now Pangolin I have heard of

cheers Hak

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Old 08-13-2013, 12:57 AM #24
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

Wow spooky, thanks! You are very well spoken, if only I had those skills! Yea I guess my entry was a little elementary, but I was rushing. +1 for the awesome feedback!

I just feel very strongly about this stuff you know ?
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Old 08-13-2013, 09:59 AM #25
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

What is probably going to happen with all these lasers is that they'll be "potted" so that they can't be accessed even if the drive is broken.

Oh, and that blue laser lamp Kickstarter is one of the the most moronic, Kipkayish ideas I've ever seen. I found myself reaching for my goggles when I saw the photos of that thing in action. DAMMIT. Shit like that is just ASKING for hobby lasers to be banned because people are treating them like toys. Such stupid idiots.
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Old 08-13-2013, 10:10 AM #26
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

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I just feel very strongly about this stuff you know ?
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Old 08-23-2013, 12:51 AM #27
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

IIRC there is federal grant money available for those who want to make PSAs and ones done on this subject would be money well spent.
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Old 09-05-2013, 10:18 PM #28
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Default Re: FDA proposes changes to US regs, including restricting children's laser toys

Bump. I bumped this in response to the other thread
Looks like the FDA is finally fed up with handheld lasers...
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