FAA: Laser incidents soar, threaten planes

LSRFAQ said:

Drop it.
I'm not going to work the math examples for you.

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I'm not asking you to, unless you can do things that go beyond calculating if the exposure would be within MPE and such. This stuff i can calculate myself just fine, and if the results come back that there actually is eye exposure over a mW, i'm find with accepting that this is truly dangerous (to the health of the pilots eyes, that is).

LSRFAQ said:

What i am interested in is the actual danger of exposures that are well below MPE but still distracting.

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Now that is unfortunate. I would like to see documented cases of these 'incidents'... what harm they have caused, numbers of casualties, property damage, the whole lot.

Apparently no-one, including the faa is willing to share such data if it even exists. If a plane had to do an actual go-around, i'm pretty sure that would make an interesting news story, especially for the laser community. Yet, i have never heard of anything like that happening.

So far, i can only conculde that either:

- no laser related incidents resulting in casualty, loss of property or life have occurred with airplanes*
- these incidents have been carefully covered up and kept from the media

* i mean fixed-wing aircraft here, not helicopters. The story for a helicopter is very different as it can fly very low, very slowly, and usually has windows looking more or less straight down.

Bobby,

Its NOT a win for me. That was intended as a mild warning, I just watched a PBS special last night on internet monitoring and how much is spent and what is done with the data. I hate the Big Brother concept as much as the next guy.

Steve

I don't follow really.

If we were to obtain objective data on the dangers that lasers pose, or do not pose, to aircraft, wouldn't that data aid in forming an objective opinion on legislation?

You Sir are Arguing for the sake of Arguing.....Give it a rest.

I do rather like the name of the actual piece of new legislation:

"Securing Aircraft Cockpits Against Lasers Act of 2010"

Just rolls off the tounge

-Sal

Hi all. I haven't been on here in a while, but I received some distressing news yesterday.

Some background first: I am an airline pilot. I love lasers.

The news I received yesterday was from my union - ALPA (Airline Pilots Association) - in the form of a regular newsletter email.

I have not been "illuminated" by lasers, but have flown with individuals that have. It sounds like a rather unpleasant experience. One guy told me they almost had to do a go-around because of one. A go-around in a jet can cost thousands. Anyway here is the email. It does not sound too good for the future of "portable lasers":

ALPA today issued a regulatory, legislative, and public awareness action plan to safeguard the skies from deliberate laser illumination of aircraft and the risk it poses to aviation.

“We have reviewed the FAA’s data released last week and have compared it to our own data and pilot reports. ALPA’s conclusion is that the risk associated with laser illuminations is unacceptable,” said Capt. Lee Moak, ALPA’s president, in a news release issued today. “Pointing lasers at aircraft in flight poses a serious safety risk to the traveling public, and we are calling on industry and government to take steps to safeguard the skies.”

ALPA is providing its members with a newly updated Jepp-sized information portfolio with guidance on responding to and reporting a laser incident. ALPA members with questions can contact ALPA’s Engineering Air Safety Department at eas@alpa.org or 800/424-2470

ALPA underscored that pilots are extremely concerned by the record number of laser illuminations of aircraft that occurred last year, many of which were near North America’s busiest airports. The alarming spike reported recently by the FAA puts a sharp, new focus on the safety threat and makes clear that decisive action is needed now from stakeholders across the airline industry.

On an industry level, ALPA urges implementing an immediate response:

· Congress must make intentionally aiming a laser at an aircraft a federal crime.

· The U.S. government must restrict the sale and use of portable lasers that are strong enough to cause injury.

· The FAA must increase the size of laser-free zones around airports and prohibit the use of all lasers in such zones.

· The FAA must develop and implement improved air traffic control and pilot operating procedures for responding to, and notifying pilots and re-routing aircraft around, threat areas when reports of illuminations are received.

· The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) must add deliberate laser illumination of all modes of transportation to its list of Most Wanted Transportation Safety Improvements.

On January 20, Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA) introduced H.R. 386, the Securing Aircraft Cockpits Against Lasers Act of 2011, a bill to make shining a laser at an aircraft a federal crime. Capt. Moak sent a letter to Rep. Dan Lungren (R-CA) on January 19 expressing support for the goal of the laser legislation. The U.S. House Judiciary Committee is expected to mark up the bill on January 26. ALPA calls on Congress, the regulatory agencies, and the NTSB to take swift action.

“A threat this serious requires decisive action from every legislative and regulatory angle, but we also need the public to get engaged,” continued Capt. Moak in the news release. “Consumers across the country and around the globe have a role and responsibility in ensuring aviation safety by eliminating accidental laser strikes and by being watchful for those who would misuse lasers by shining them at aircraft.”

ALPA will continue to pursue the action that is needed from legislators, regulators, and other industry stakeholders, and we are asking for your assistance in reporting these incidents and helping to safeguard the skies for our members and pilots around the globe.


Translation:

They want to make shining a laser at an aircraft a really big crime. (That's good)

It sounds like they want to restrict/outlaw private individuals from being able to posses/use "portable" lasers. Not good. Bye Bye pointers.

I'll keep you updated when I hear any developments.

Benm said:

I'm not asking you to, unless you can do things that go beyond calculating if the exposure would be within MPE and such. This stuff i can calculate myself just fine, and if the results come back that there actually is eye exposure over a mW, i'm find with accepting that this is truly dangerous (to the health of the pilots eyes, that is).



Now that is unfortunate. I would like to see documented cases of these 'incidents'... what harm they have caused, numbers of casualties, property damage, the whole lot.

Apparently no-one, including the faa is willing to share such data if it even exists. If a plane had to do an actual go-around, i'm pretty sure that would make an interesting news story, especially for the laser community. Yet, i have never heard of anything like that happening.

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In order to preserve my night vision during an illumination event I would have to look away from the source. That would most likely mean eyes down inside the cockpit. Would you like me to do that when I am only a couple hundred feet off the ground traveling at 150+ mph concentrating on the runway environment, trying to safely land, with your family in the back?

If we did a go around because of an illumination event it would not make the news. I guarantee it.

Edit:

I'm asking my co-workers for stories about lasers and go-arounds performed as a direct result just so you can hear of something like that happening, because I guarantee it does.

This is why we need a group of aviation-knowledgeable laser enthusiasts to help frame any legislation. We don't want to compromise safety, but the total regulation-into-nonexistence of personal laser ownership would be a pity.

As I said before We all agree this is a Bad idea and support a ban on shining a laser at any aircraft.

That said we do need to start gathering together other wise our rights will be striped.

Okay, see, this is why we can't dither. This is why, even though it "feels nice" to talk about reasons why its "not a big deal", it's still a bad idea to do so.

Thanks, Joe, for another left-seat perspective.

There you have it, yet more pilots who underline that it is a real problem, no matter what the back-of-the-napkin math tells you; but also doesn't want portables to be banned.

Seriously. LPF needs to display zero-tolerance on this stuff.

If there is anything we can do to stop an outright ban at this point (unlikely, I think it's a matter of time) - we have to have the solid foundation that anyone who would even suggest aircraft illumination as permissible becomes a pariah in the laser community -- we CANNOT be seen as enablers.

Joe: I do hope you stick around LPF and comment more on the subject. It'd be nice to have another voice from the aviation side of things!

I agree with Aryntha. We not only need to have a zero tolerance for posts encouraging laser misuse, but we also need to help educate people about the science behind lasers, laser safety and the consequences of their misuse. This is the best way to prevent these things from happening. While lasers will probably not be banned, they are very close to being strongly regulated.

Even the latter would be a real problem for US Hobbyists, because that would likely mean that we would need to obtain licenses to own and operate lasers, pay fees, take courses, and have all our information in a government database, for starters. Not to mention bye bye anyone under 18 who wants a class IIIb and above laser.

-Sal

Its nice to hear some input from pilots on this!

Making shining lasers at aircraft a federal crime is something the US can do, and i wouldn't object to that at all. Imposing a severe punishment might prevent people from even going close to shining at an aircraft, which is also good.

The problem is that it doesnt prevent the problem completely. Lets face it, people get murdered over the $50 in their wallet, even though the punishment for that is extreme. Banning lasers will not help much either, its like the weapons ban in europe: law abiding citizens are left defenseless while criminals still have plenty of guns.

The solution has to come from two sides, i'm affraid. Preventing sane people from shining lasers at aircraft is one end of the equation. The other end would still have to be a solution that reduces risks to planes if illuminated by insane laser operators.

One solution would be to optimize the pilots response to such incidents. Obviously there are protocols for what action to take if visual contact is lost (by shit in your eyes, or a shattered canopy by birdstrike on smaller planes).

In order to preserve my night vision during an illumination event I would have to look away from the source. That would most likely mean eyes down inside the cockpit. Would you like me to do that when I am only a couple hundred feet off the ground traveling at 150+ mph concentrating on the runway environment, trying to safely land, with your family in the back?

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That is a question that needs to be answered indeed.

I'm not sure what type of aircraft are typically involved in the mentioned incidents. If its large passenger carriers landing on major airports, they will probably be able to complete the landing using class-3 ILS.

The biggest danger is probably to smaller aircraft landing at night. I can imagine this would be a big hazard if your aircraft lacks expensive modern safety equipment. Doing a blind go-around without TCAS on a busy airport would be hazardous as well. Personally i'd probably invest in a couple of goggles if i had to land on an airport where laser incidents are reported. Surely, flying with goggles is far from ideal and obscures some instruments, but its probably still preferable to going in without seeing the runway at all...

Man will never stop 100% of them. But we can do our part to make it less. We need to also consider that if we don't start banning together then when they start making laws they will ban them out right. Lasers will not be protected like guns are. If we don't make a "safe laser community" that can defend there rights of owning them and being responsible for them. If we don't they will run us over in the next few years. And this is also a notice to everyone that we should buy what we can while we can..... before we can't.....

They won't ban lasers outright. There are too many uses for them: Laser surgery, construction, corporate R&D, industrial uses; what would be more likely is the restriction/regulation of laser ownership and use.

Not to mention a ban would cost alot of money and with no licensing fees to pay for the law's implementation it would not be feasable.

Hand held, not industry/professional use

Ahh I see your point. Still in my opinion, it will be a licensing requirement instead of a ban. Too much money to be made, and much easier to implement.

A ban would legally be too complicated, and probably unconstitutional. We do have the right to bear arms. Think of it this way: does a weapon have to be a "gun" to be a weapon? Does a "gun" have to shoot pieces of metal to be a "gun"? How much longer will guns shoot bullets before something more lethal is invented?

But I digress. Incidents with lasers and planes doubled last year. This is logical because of the increased availability of handheld lasers. The point is that if people don't stop wonton misuse of handheld lasers, something will be done, and wether a ban is implemented or other types of restrictions are used, either way, we loose.

Legislation restricting/banning ALL handhelds is still pretty far away. You may think that a few people on some forums may not be able to help, but we can. Alot of people into lasers end up here, and we can do something to prevent the problem or even keep it in check, before something bad happens.