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Old 11-07-2008, 06:39 PM #1
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Default EYE TRAUMA!!! Not caused by lasers

So help me God if I'm wrong. *

This weekend I just finished my 6x 405nm build, and I'm pretty sure that it's putting out over 160mW without testing on a LPM, judging from my experience with lasers and especially with blu rays. *Very DANGEROUS laser!!!

Now, I know I am a wise man, however even monkeys fall from trees… *

I don't have the correct OD safety goggles for the 405nm...yet (on order...NOW!)
So, a couple nights ago, I decided to take it outside to chill with a couple friends who were smoking. *

Before I continue, let me state MY OPINION: the VIOLET 405nm 4x/6x burner is one of (if not the most) dangerous laser diodes available to the public, because of it's extremely low wavelength and the amount of power it produces. *If it can burn practically EVERYTHING, then it is VERY dangerous! *

So I was just pointing around like normal, and in the night, of coarse our pupils are fully dilated, focused for the night atmosphere with minimal light to see. *

And so I decided to point it at my white sock, which turned pretty BLUE and fluoresced very bright, lit up the entire back yard. *I focused on the dot for a couple seconds without safety goggles! *:-[

Well, not at first, but about an hour later, I noticed my vision in my right eye became pretty fuzzy, right at my focal point. *Luckily, my left eye is still perfect. *And after a couple days, I've noticed that I've lost at least 30% clarity in my right eye and it has not seemed to improve, which makes me think I have permanent eye damage. *And so since, I've hardly used any of my lasers, especially my blu-rays. *I have goggles on order, and this has been quite the wake up call for me because my vision is much more important to me then my laser hobby, but I also know that it would be foolish to sacrifice one of my favorite hobbies because of this when all it takes is further discipline, and full understanding of the importance of safety practices, which isn't that complicated. *I've never had anything like this happen to me before. *

HOWEVER... I also got my ass kicked this weekend (I was completely plastered drunk, all I remember was laughing the entire time) and someone smashed a large ceramic vase over my head, then punched me in the right temple over and over and I got tossed head first into a wall. * Well, I don't know the details about what happened or why it happened, but I"m sure I didn't deserve that. *[smiley=engel017.gif] *Needless to say, I woke up the next morning feeling not so well. *;D *I still don't know what all took place, but I really don't care. *I'm not an alcoholic and I only get that drunk maybe 2-3 times a year. *If you can’t remember it, then it never really took place. *

So in conclusion, I have made an appointment with my doctor to get it checked out. *I have health insurance, so I might as well use it right?


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Old 11-07-2008, 06:45 PM #2
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

We need to bring the price of goggles down...
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:01 PM #3
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

i would say blu ray wins since it is much more common of a pointer compared to say ir.

but irs would be worse since you cant even react to them hitting you in the eye.

ace if you dont mind me asking, where did you buy the 405nm goggles? and how much were they?


and simplysped i think goggles are VERY affordable compared to the prices of decent lasers, the problem is people need to prioritize what they buy, goggles should not come second
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:14 PM #4
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Ace, Did you get hit with the vase and punched before or after you used the BR ? reason I'm wondering is there is a chance that you received retinal damage from being punched, it's not all that uncommon for a persons retina to detach itself from the back of the eye if there has been a large sudden force directed at the side of the head.

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405nm | Banggood LT-850 | "5mW" | Review Unit | Review WIP
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:14 PM #5
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by thesk8nmidget
and simplysped i think goggles are VERY affordable compared to the prices of decent lasers, the problem is people need to prioritize what they buy, goggles should not come second
If we can buy a 50MW green laser with all of its IR pumping cheapness for 22$, we should be able to get appropriate goggles for ~30$ shipped. As these lasers are more affordable and easier to get, so should the eyewear.

Thats all im sayin'
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:26 PM #6
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

I havent found a good set of goggles yet for a decent price, so heres what I did. I went to the local dollar store with a 180mW pointer and began testing ;D The staff looked kinda confused, even though I was trying to cover up what I was doing. I stood directly in front of the sunglasses rack, close enough so my body would block any reflections. I quickly hit each pair of glasses and purchased two of each pair which seemed to block the most light.

When I got home, I placed the glasses between the sensor on my meter, and the laser. The best pair I found so far will only allow 7mW's to pass which the number of course raises to 10mW after approx 15 seconds of a direct hit @ 185mW through the same point in the lens. The lens actually gets pretty hot and you can see the deforming lines generated as the laser eats through the dye/coating.
Now keeping in mind they only passed 7mW, the lenses are not large enough to cover your eyes from the side, like proper goggles would. But for 1$, they are sufficient for up close burning and general indoor use. Until I get a proper set, they will have to do, but my eyes are not seeing the almost 200mW of 405 that they would without this half a$$ed solution :-?

Oh yeah, I do not recomend this to anyone as results may vary :-/
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:31 PM #7
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaburn
Oh yeah, I do not recomend this to anyone as results may vary :-/
good idea, i will try this =]

I wonder if UV coated sunglasses would be good for my soon to come 405nm since it's so close to UV.
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:48 PM #8
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplysped2
[quote author=thesk8nmidget link=1226086783/0#2 date=1226088095]and simplysped i think goggles are VERY affordable compared to the prices of decent lasers, the problem is people need to prioritize what they buy, goggles should not come second
If we can buy a 50MW green laser with all of its IR pumping cheapness for 22$, we should be able to get appropriate goggles for ~30$ shipped. As these lasers are more affordable and easier to get, so should the eyewear.

Thats all im sayin'[/quote]

The eyewear is incredibly easy to get. Cracking the wallet is the issue. I busted my hump to get certified goggles for hobbyists down to $49.00 from $70.00 and people still complain as if the lens manufacturers should just take the loss on the research for the dyes to block the light, the costs to get them certified, and the costs to produce them. That is not going to happen for certified protection. Remember the laser business is about research and manufacturing, not about hobbyists. It will never be about hobbyists, that's why it's called a hobby. You are playing with systems that were never supposed to be in the hands of kids and expect the world to provide you the equipment cheap to save your vision. The Chinese saw a market and exploited it without regard for safety as almost all pointers are made in China. You see this because they make systems in output powers far beyond the definition of a pointer yet still in a pointer case. Buy the frickin' right safety equipment for whatever you do. Those costs are part of the hobby. If you can't afford it, get out of the hobby because it will be you sitting in the emergency room justifying to the FDA why all pointers should be banned. Frankly, I'm tired of people whining about the costs. In fact, OEM Laser probably won't restock any of the hobby glasses once they are gone. Go buy your sunglasses, buy the non-certified glasses but quit your whining about the costs. What kills me is someone will spend $900.00 on some high powered portable and bitch and moan about $70 glasses. Damn, now I'm worked up! Some people's kids!
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Old 11-07-2008, 07:53 PM #9
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by simplysped2
[quote author=wannaburn link=1226086783/0#5 date=1226089606]Oh yeah, I do not recomend this to anyone as results may vary :-/
good idea, i will try this =]

I wonder if UV coated sunglasses would be good for my soon to come 405nm since it's so close to UV.[/quote]

I had originally thought the same thing. I tried many different pairs which were 20 - 30$ glasses and had no luck. At one of the many local dollar stores there is usually a sunglasses rack, so I started trying the cheap ones. Funny enough, the cheap ones performed better than the 30$ ones I tried originally

Moral of the story, price has nothing to do with it, and the UV block sticker was useless as well. Some of the more expensive would probably work, but if im going to spend that much, id rather drop the extra cheddar on a set meant for this application. If you find a set that works, buy 2 and destroy one set making sure they can handle at least 10 secs without degrading. On the set you plan on using, also test them, but avoid hitting the center of the lens and weakening the coating / dye. As I said, its better than no protection at all, but still a bit risky in that, @ 180mW an 803t most likely puts out a slightly different wavelength than it would at 100mW. This leaves too much room for error, as assuming you will be protected would only be assumption when using different lasers at different powers.



***

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrothyChimp
[quote author=simplysped2 link=1226086783/0#4 date=1226088894][quote author=thesk8nmidget link=1226086783/0#2 date=1226088095]and simplysped i think goggles are VERY affordable compared to the prices of decent lasers, the problem is people need to prioritize what they buy, goggles should not come second
If we can buy a 50MW green laser with all of its IR pumping cheapness for 22$, we should be able to get appropriate goggles for ~30$ shipped. As these lasers are more affordable and easier to get, so should the eyewear.

Thats all im sayin'[/quote]

Damn, now I'm worked up! Some people's kids![/quote]

I dont see why this surprises you Frothy, there are many on here who cant afford to spend 50$ on glasses, or just dont get it. But that doesnt mean they should suffer in the name of ignorance. This place is full of DIY solutions, there is always a way around anything, and if it is done safely in the respect of the dangers, it still remains better than nothing. The only pair of sunglasses I own that I use for laser is for my 405's. I have certified protection for 532, 650, 808 &amp; 1064, I just havent bothered to get for 405 yet, but will. And in the meantime my eyes are only seeing 7mW (from a direct hit). As I said, better than nothing...

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Old 11-07-2008, 08:15 PM #10
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by wannaburn
I dont see why this surprises you Frothy...
I guess it surprises me because, like the perfect gift, it's the ignorance that keeps on giving. The answers are all over this site as well as hundreds of other sites but the first thing people do is skimp on the protection. I guess I just have to realize I can't save everyone from themselves. I've done about everything I can from providing the science and mathematics behind protective eyewear, to calling some people idiots to providing protection at a good price yet it never seems to make a difference. I don't see why people are not all over absolute eye protection with all that is going on with the FDA. All the little issues people have will add up to the final banning of laser pointers and probably more. I don't think this is a slippery slope argument as we see the government moving that way now.
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:24 PM #11
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrothyChimp
What kills me is someone will spend $900.00 on some high powered portable and bitch and moan about $70 glasses. Damn, now I'm worked up! Some people's kids!
I'm not sure I totally agree with this. I personally didn't buy the safety goggles because they are expensive, I just didn't do it because I was lazy, and thought that sunglasses would block the violet light, but after what's happened to me (I'm a humble man who's not afraid to admit when I've made a mistake) it is with no question that I'd be more then willing to spend $70 easily for the safety goggles. I believe that anybody who's willing to spend many hundreds of dollars on a laser would just as easily buy the safety glasses to go along. The point of this post has NOTHING to do with why goggles are so expensive. That was just someone's assumption of why I don't have them. I know where, what, and how to be safe with my lasers, I just became careless, and this thread is to open peoples' mind about the truth, science, and importance of practicing safety, especially with the blu-ray. I told my lady about this, and she laughed at me about it. I was very hesitant about even starting this thread, but being an honorable HUMAN (and sometimes completely freaken idiotic – nobody can say they haven’t been there) I wanted to share this event with everybody here at LPF.
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:25 PM #12
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrothyChimp
The eyewear is incredibly easy to get. Cracking the wallet is the issue. I busted my hump to get certified goggles for hobbyists down to $49.00 from $70.00 and people still complain as if the lens manufacturers should just take the loss on the research for the dyes to block the light, the costs to get them certified, and the costs to produce them. That is not going to happen for certified protection. Remember the laser business is about research and manufacturing, not about hobbyists. It will never be about hobbyists, that's why it's called a hobby. You are playing with systems that were never supposed to be in the hands of kids and expect the world to provide you the equipment cheap to save your vision. The Chinese saw a market and exploited it without regard for safety as almost all pointers are made in China. You see this because they make systems in output powers far beyond the definition of a pointer yet still in a pointer case. Buy the frickin' right safety equipment for whatever you do. Those costs are part of the hobby. If you can't afford it, get out of the hobby because it will be you sitting in the emergency room justifying to the FDA why all pointers should be banned. Frankly, I'm tired of people whining about the costs. In fact, OEM Laser probably won't restock any of the hobby glasses once they are gone. Go buy your sunglasses, buy the non-certified glasses but quit your whining about the costs. What kills me is someone will spend $900.00 on some high powered portable and bitch and moan about $70 glasses. Damn, now I'm worked up! Some people's kids!
Yes, you are completely right about this. If you're not willing to buy the proper protection, you should either be willing to face the consequences without even CONSIDERING blaming it on someone else, or just quit the hobby.

Side note: Wannaburn has a laser power meter. Without a laser power meter readily available, sunglasses are probably doing nothing at all to protect you.

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Old 11-07-2008, 08:33 PM #13
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrothyChimp
[quote author=simplysped2 link=1226086783/0#4 date=1226088894][quote author=thesk8nmidget link=1226086783/0#2 date=1226088095]and simplysped i think goggles are VERY affordable compared to the prices of decent lasers, the problem is people need to prioritize what they buy, goggles should not come second
If we can buy a 50MW green laser with all of its IR pumping cheapness for 22$, we should be able to get appropriate goggles for ~30$ shipped. As these lasers are more affordable and easier to get, so should the eyewear.

Thats all im sayin'[/quote]

The eyewear is incredibly easy to get. Cracking the wallet is the issue. I busted my hump to get certified goggles for hobbyists down to $49.00 from $70.00 and people still complain as if the lens manufacturers should just take the loss on the research for the dyes to block the light, the costs to get them certified, and the costs to produce them. That is not going to happen for certified protection. Remember the laser business is about research and manufacturing, not about hobbyists. It will never be about hobbyists, that's why it's called a hobby. You are playing with systems that were never supposed to be in the hands of kids and expect the world to provide you the equipment cheap to save your vision. The Chinese saw a market and exploited it without regard for safety as almost all pointers are made in China. You see this because they make systems in output powers far beyond the definition of a pointer yet still in a pointer case. Buy the frickin' right safety equipment for whatever you do. Those costs are part of the hobby. If you can't afford it, get out of the hobby because it will be you sitting in the emergency room justifying to the FDA why all pointers should be banned. Frankly, I'm tired of people whining about the costs. In fact, OEM Laser probably won't restock any of the hobby glasses once they are gone. Go buy your sunglasses, buy the non-certified glasses but quit your whining about the costs. What kills me is someone will spend $900.00 on some high powered portable and bitch and moan about $70 glasses. Damn, now I'm worked up! Some people's kids![/quote]

well said!

and like i have said many times before....
What king of price does your vision have????

i honestly couldnt put a price tag on my vision, but i sure can say that i would spend a few hundred bucks to protect it! but i dont even have to pay that much!

come on people pay the money and save your ability to see!
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:46 PM #14
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by FrothyChimp
[quote author=wannaburn link=1226086783/0#8 date=1226091217]
I dont see why this surprises you Frothy...
I guess it surprises me because, like the perfect gift, it's the ignorance that keeps on giving. The answers are all over this site as well as hundreds of other sites but the first thing people do is skimp on the protection. I guess I just have to realize I can't save everyone from themselves. I've done about everything I can from providing the science and mathematics behind protective eyewear, to calling some people idiots to providing protection at a good price yet it never seems to make a difference. I don't see why people are not all over absolute eye protection with all that is going on with the FDA. All the little issues people have will add up to the final banning of laser pointers and probably more. I don't think this is a slippery slope argument as we see the government moving that way now.[/quote]

I remember when I built my first red, and shortly after found this site. The first thing I did was buy a set from WL, and have continued to do so with every new wavelength I have aquired. My goggles on average cost me more than any one single laser I own. The unfortunate part, is that not all people will heed the warnings, and injuries will occour. But even this doesnt stop responsible users from telling a kid how to make a laser. There is no way to avoid the inevitable, sites like this allow for the younger sometimes more careless audiance a means to make or purchase these FDA deemed 'hazardous devices'. There will always be &quot;idiots&quot; and they will have the tendancy to ruin things for the rest in their careless ways. However, if all the information wasnt so readily availible, you would probably still be able to import laser pointers into AU. The popularity, and wealth of info surrounding lasers, will most likely prove to be its downfall as a hobby.

I am even willing to bet that DX recieved its notice from the FDA on behalf of scared folks who happened across a forum just like this one. I would also not be surprised if there are agents working on behalf of the US government posing as active laser enthusiests on this site and others like it, keeping tabs on our sources, and sellers that they will approach next.

I do my best not to sell any laser related items to persons under 18, and have refunded money to persons asking if the dot can be seen on overhead aircraft :-? Only so many of us can do our part, but some just want the $$$ and do not care what they sell, and to who. I have followed many of your posts in the year I have been a member, and would definately say you are one of the only members who try to keep the aspect of saftey consantly in the minds of the n00bs. I believe it was one of your posts that pushed me to get some protection, and now pass along the same concerns to those who purchase anything laser from me.


BTW, whats with the second set of nostrills on the chimp in your avatar?
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Old 11-07-2008, 08:56 PM #15
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Well, I guess the point has been made, although I could buy a $900 laser at this exact moment, I just won't buy any goggles because my parents raised me so dum. * ;D

READ MY REPLY #10!!! *And please, answer me this question:

Why did I start this thread? *

P.S. Josh, why don't you answer your PM?

Edit:

THIS THREAD HAS 0% TO DO WITH $$$ !!!
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Old 11-07-2008, 09:02 PM #16
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Default Re: The most dangerous laser VS EYE?????

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace82

READ MY REPLY #10!!! And please, answer me this question:

Why did I start this thread?

To share your reality check?


Were you wearing your sunglasses when this happened?

PS, Iwasnt trying to imply the money thing toward you, just how I see things on this site, ie sell, sell, sell...
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