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Old 08-27-2008, 11:05 PM #1
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Default Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

Okay, while scanning the interwebs for "cost effective" eye protection, I came across these:

http://store.oldgrouch.biz/milaandbaprg.html

Sorry for having to spell it out, I don't yet have ten posts so I can't put the correct address. :-[ (EDIT) Fixed the URL

What do you laser veterans think? Would these be a viable solution for my open can red laser build?
The teal color of the lenses leads me to believe that they would be effective for red laser usage. Any insights?


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Old 08-27-2008, 11:41 PM #2
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

they'll most-likely block SOME light, but you can't be sure until you've actually tested them obviously.
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Old 08-28-2008, 12:38 AM #3
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

The description says nothing. Military lasers are IR (1064nm and >1400nm) so my suspicion is they would be effective in this region but it's not definitive until someone comes up with some true specifications.
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Old 08-28-2008, 07:52 AM #4
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

Okay, I have been searching for some wavelength information and so far I have been able to come up with this:

http(colon,slash,slash)usachppm(dot)apgea.army.mil/laser/Publications/FM8-50/Main(dot)html Again, sorry for having to spell out the dots.

Toward the bottom of the document is a table of common laser wavelengths in the US armed forces. It lists two red wavelengths as well as two others. This would certainly lead me to believe that one or both of the laser lenses in the kit are for protection in the red visible spectrum.

Am I on track here?

BTW, I ordered two sets.
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:10 AM #5
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

A member on another forum-wileecoyote-deserves credit for the following information:

Thanks to many hours of research and with help from the fine users on this forum including Aseras, Bimmerboy, Johnawesly, and Wavingphotons, we have finally found a good source for high quality laser safety glasses at a very low price: $13-$20 USD per pair including shipping. These glasses are brand new and should be widely available to everyone from a number of sources.

The solution is known as the Ballistic-Laser Protective Spectacles (B-LPS) which the US military currently provides to soldiers for protection against sun, wind, dust, projectiles, and lasers.

B-LPS is available in four lens configurations:

Clear: basic UV protection, 95% light transmission, no effect on colors, good for low light or night use, military NSN # 8465-01-416-4636
Gray: basic UV protection, 15% light transmission, minimal color distortion, good for bright daylight use, military NSN # 8465-01-417-4004
Green: OD => 4 at 694.3 nm (ruby laser wavelength), OD = 4 at 1064 nm (Nd:YAG laser wavelength), markedly attenuates red and mildly attenuates yellow, blue, and brown, green is enhanced, may be marked with "S2" on the lens and is sometimes referred to as the “2WL” or “Class 3” lens, military NSN # 8465-01-416-3207
Dark Brown: OD => 4 at 532 nm (frequency doubled Nd:YAG laser wavelength), OD = 4 at 694.3 nm (ruby laser wavelength), OD = 4 at 1064 nm (NdYAG laser wavelength), markedly attenuates all colors, especially blue, may be marked with "S3" on the lens and is sometimes referred to as the “3WL” or “Class 4” lens, military NSN # 8465-01-416-3210
All of the above lenses offer good ballistic protection and will stop a 15 caliber steel pellet or a 5.8 grain T-37 shaped fragment at 650 feet per second. The glasses can be worn alone or over top of prescription glasses.

So the ideal solution for laser hobbyists would be to acquire B-LPS with both Green and Brown lenses. The Green lens offers protection against common red lasers and provides better visibility during low light conditions. The Brown lens is similar to the Green lens with additional protection against common green lasers however visibility is limited so it is best used in daylight or well lit areas.

B-LPS kits are available on eBay and the web for $15-$25 plus tax and shipping or in many army surplus stores however they are normally only sold with one lens and they could be used or missing parts depending on your source. Caution: there are older models of the B-LPS which include a green "frontsert" or “outsert” laser lens and a light brown sunglass lens. These models are likely to offer less protection than the current issue product and thus they are not recommended. There are also some related accessories available for B-LPS as shown below. The case and strap are normally included in the B-LPS kit but the lens carrier and mask adapters are usually sold separately:

Carrying Case: military NSN # 8465-01-417-9963
Retaining Strap: military NSN # 8465-01-416-4637
Prescription Lens Carrier: military NSN # 6540-01-264-1348
M40A1 Mask Adapter: military NSN # 4240-01-389-7152
Note: The military also issues a similar system known as Special Protective Eyewear, Cylindrical System (SPECS)which has the same lens options as B-LPS however the SPECS glasses can not be worn with prescription glasses and some feel that they are less comfortable and just a bit fugly.



For more detailed information on B-LPS and laser usage / protection within the US military please refer to the following documents and articles:
I'm not allowed to post these yet. :-[
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Old 08-28-2008, 02:04 PM #6
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

There you go. Looks like the work has already been done.
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Old 08-28-2008, 08:12 PM #7
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

I ordered two pairs and it came out to $33.75 shipped.

I am surprised everyone hasn't already been using these.
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Old 08-29-2008, 12:22 AM #8
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

Those military glasses have been sold on ebay off and on for a long time now, I read about this on another forum a long time ago, nothing 'new' about those glasses or the info; they've been around a long time.

I don't have a current link for them on ebay, but you should be able to find them there, and yes army/navy surplus stores do carry them as well. *There was one seller on ebay in particular that used to sell them all the time; can't recall at the moment the ebay store name.

Update: these look like the older ones as described above;

http://cgi.ebay.com/US-Army-USMC-Bal...2em118Q2el1247

Those are probably not worth it.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:09 AM #9
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

Here's some interesting facts you might want to read-up on about these;

http://bulk.resource.org/courts.gov/...4.96-5089.html
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:30 AM #10
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

Yea, the link you posted was for the previous system, SPECS...don't ask me what the acronym stands for. They were phased out in favor of the new B-LPS system from what I gather because of the enhanced laser protection and better looks. I guess if the stuff looked nerdy then our troops were refusing to wear it in the field. I even came across the guidelines for training combat medics for laser injuries.

I wasn't really saying that I made some major discovery here, just that I am surprised that the only real goggle coverage I was seeing was for the WickedLaser LaserShades or the Dragon Laser versions.

For less than 1/3 the price of the lasershades (even cheaper when you factor the high shipping charges from wicked lasers) for OD>4 goggles, I figured these would be the goggles of choice for most people. Maybe I am missing something.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:39 AM #11
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by electron
Here's some interesting facts you might want to read-up on about these;

: Sheesh, I can't even quote someone if there's a link in their text.
Nice find, I didn't know these were Gargoyles design. I was scared that it was a lawsuit from some laser hobbyist that burned his eyes at first. Glad to see it was only patent infringement issues.
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:40 AM #12
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

Sorry, just wanted to get my 10th post so I don't need to spell out URL's
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Old 08-29-2008, 01:54 AM #13
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

Yes I too have been puzzled by all the talk about WL & DL safety glasses that frankly are not certified and I have expressed that many times among others on here....yet some like them because of the price. I have to admit since it's been a long time, I have virtually forgotten about these too until you brought them up again.

I'll tell you, if you go back through and read everything, there certainly was one heck of an amount of design and testing done by the US Government on these. I'd have to agree with you, I don't know why in our community these have long been overlooked as good affordable Laser Safety Glasses.

Got any ideas where to find the PLC for them?

Good refresher for those of us that forgotten about them, and nice for those that never knew before. 8-)

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Nova Endeavor Series Laser - Average: 305.4mW Peak: 329.8mW
Nova Lasers X125, X150 & X175, DL100, BFGLaser 125mW

A-Laser Model AD66Y0PGD 660nm 200mW
DX-200 660nm & 532nm, Leadlights & numerous 5mw-100mW 532mn
IgorT (6x) 209mW & (PHR) 140mW, Kryton 155mW, Daguin 165mW
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Krypton 1W model and 750mW+ model (839mW)
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Arctic G1 (825mW) and Arctic G2 (805mW) SmartSwitch Technology V1 & V2 Models w/Expanded Optic Kits
Jayrob 18650 w/MicroBoost & CU Heatsink A140 Diode 900mW, 295mW Pen by Pontiacg5
Rifle v2 Full 1.2W,
Rifle v2 Full 500mW, Rifle v2 Full 300mW & Cyber 445 1.2W all focusable w/Full Lens Kits

Coherent's Newest High Performance LabMax-TOP Laser Power/Energy Meter Accuracy ±1.0%, Power Resolution 0.00001 Statistical Analysis: Min, Max, Mean, Range, Std Dev, Energy Dose, & Stability; Trend Charting, Tuning, Beam Stability Analysis, Extra Large Positional Display (112mm x 78mm) and Data Logging to a USB Flash Drive Directly on the Meter or PC w/ LabView Software.

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Chargers: Pila IBC (Swiss Designed & Engineered) the Gold Standard (UL). Xtar SP2 & VP1, Soshine SC-S1max V3 EagleTac & KeepPower 18650 3400mAh AA/AAA La Crosse BC1000 Maha MH-C9000 Eneloops
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:00 AM #14
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

I have been reading everything I can on these and feel reasonably assured that these are the best bang for the buck.

Forgive my ignorance but what does PLC stand for?
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:03 AM #15
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

By the way, here are the links that I couldn't post before:

For more detailed information on B-LPS and laser usage / protection within the US military please refer to the following documents and articles:
The original forum thread where this all started (http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/...d.php?t=147777)
Military article about B-LPS from January 2002 (http://www.natick.army.mil/about/pao/2002/02-01.htm)
MIL-PRF-31303 which contains detailed specs for B-LPS (http://208.219.69.31/laser/MIL_PRF_31013.pdf)
The Army Vision Conservation and Readiness Program (http://www.army.mil/usapa/epubs/pdf/p40_506.pdf)
Department of Defense Handbook on Laser Safety (http://www.nswc.navy.mil/wwwDL/G/LAS...-hdbk_828a.pdf)

Happy reading!
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Old 08-29-2008, 09:24 AM #16
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Default Re: Cheap goggle solution perhaps?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JaxSmirkingRevenge
I have been reading everything I can on these and feel reasonably assured that these are the best bang for the buck.

Forgive my ignorance but what does PLC stand for?
Prescription Lens Carrier: military NSN # 6540-01-264-1348
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Nova Endeavor Series Laser - Average: 305.4mW Peak: 329.8mW
Nova Lasers X125, X150 & X175, DL100, BFGLaser 125mW

A-Laser Model AD66Y0PGD 660nm 200mW
DX-200 660nm & 532nm, Leadlights & numerous 5mw-100mW 532mn
IgorT (6x) 209mW & (PHR) 140mW, Kryton 155mW, Daguin 165mW
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Krypton 1W model and 750mW+ model (839mW)
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Arctic G1 (825mW) and Arctic G2 (805mW) SmartSwitch Technology V1 & V2 Models w/Expanded Optic Kits
Jayrob 18650 w/MicroBoost & CU Heatsink A140 Diode 900mW, 295mW Pen by Pontiacg5
Rifle v2 Full 1.2W,
Rifle v2 Full 500mW, Rifle v2 Full 300mW & Cyber 445 1.2W all focusable w/Full Lens Kits

Coherent's Newest High Performance LabMax-TOP Laser Power/Energy Meter Accuracy ±1.0%, Power Resolution 0.00001 Statistical Analysis: Min, Max, Mean, Range, Std Dev, Energy Dose, & Stability; Trend Charting, Tuning, Beam Stability Analysis, Extra Large Positional Display (112mm x 78mm) and Data Logging to a USB Flash Drive Directly on the Meter or PC w/ LabView Software.

D4thing LPM (3W), Andover LPM-1, Optic kits, and Certified Safety Glasses for Green, Red & Blue Lasers.
Chargers: Pila IBC (Swiss Designed & Engineered) the Gold Standard (UL). Xtar SP2 & VP1, Soshine SC-S1max V3 EagleTac & KeepPower 18650 3400mAh AA/AAA La Crosse BC1000 Maha MH-C9000 Eneloops
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