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Old 08-30-2010, 03:28 AM #49
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Quote:
Originally Posted by alfiechip View Post
Hello Everyone,

I'm thoroughly scared now to use my recently acquired S3 Arctic.

I have 2 protected Ultrafire 18650 batteries @ 3000mAh but have noticed when I've used them in the Arctic that the tailcap will not fully close tight. I've also noticed that at the higher mAh the laser seems to drain the power in the battery so much faster than the green WL 18650 @ 1300mAh that came with it.

I'm so freaked & paranoid to use this battery now even though it lasts longer in the laser!

Can anyone please let me know if there are any other batteries that will fit in the Arctic, NOT blow-up, & is also comparable to the amount of time it powers the laser as the 1300mAh?

Thank you,

Alfie Chip
I've posted multiple times that the Tenergy 2600 (cyan) battery will fit.
See my sig for links.
I have run it as long as 1 hour in my Arctic. If you run in more than a few minutes, you should direct a fan on it to help cool. Without a fan it gets up to 110-112 degrees, so does the battery. With a fan it runs about 95.


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Old 08-30-2010, 03:53 AM #50
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Hello,

Thank you so much for the information. I'm ordering some Tenergy 2600 asap.

Alfie Chip
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Old 08-30-2010, 05:27 AM #51
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

I'm not surprised.
I've never bought jack from Wicked Lasers, and never will...

-Tony
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Old 08-30-2010, 06:20 AM #52
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Wow.... Thanks for the warning on WL batteries.

It's good to hear you are ok, that could have been so much worse.
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Old 08-30-2010, 01:46 PM #53
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

You can get Tenergy batteries @ batteryjunction and the shipping is much cheaper if you choose first class mail and you can also use the CPF 5% discount code of "cpf2009"

Also another battery to consider would be the AW IMR 18650 it's a different chemistry and is much safer, doesn't need the protection pcb, so it's only 65mm in length. Also use a charger that fully shuts off after charging, that would be another safety tip, but Yes you really do need to start out with a Quality battery in the first place; that is the real key.
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Old 08-30-2010, 02:13 PM #54
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Quote:
Originally Posted by electron View Post
You can get Tenergy batteries @ batteryjunction and the shipping is much cheaper if you choose first class mail and you can also use the CPF 5% discount code of "cpf2009"

Also another battery to consider would be the AW IMR 18650 it's a different chemistry and is much safer, doesn't need the protection pcb, so it's only 65mm in length. Also use a charger that fully shuts off after charging, that would be another safety tip, but Yes you really do need to start out with a Quality battery in the first place; that is the real key.
Thanks for the info! The battery is a little hard to find. Here's the link. It's about a $1.50 cheaper than Amazon.
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Old 08-30-2010, 03:58 PM #55
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Have you measured the Tenergy? I'm just curious, I know you have one and it fits for you, but we don't know how good the tolerence is on the Arctics from one unit to anther. The CPF test thread shows it to be 66.7mm in length and their source for them was batteryjunction. The Sanyo's & LG's are UL listed, but are un-protected.

I have been using the LG's for a long time with my RPL's with no issues what-so-ever. I would have thought with the battery indicator lights on the Arctic, a Quality un-protected cell would have been fine because you would know how far down the battery has been run. Again though, it's an Arctic and we don't know how "reliable" those battery capacity led's really are.

As you already reported, with most protected 18650 cells you can't fully screw the switch cap all the way down on the Arctic. It has really been designed for a 65mm battery. That is one of the reasons I bought the AW IMR, it's a better chemistry that doesn't need any pcb protection circuit to be added to the cell for safety and thus is only 65mm.

I personally haven't tried the Tenergy's yet (canceled) and want to see how well the cap screws down on the Arctic because it's still 2mm's longer than the supplied battery and all other un-protected cells with the exception of AW IMR's. I'll report on this when I get some Tenergy's. Canceled in favor of AW IMR's.

WL sure didn't waste any metal building the Arctic, I mean a couple more mm's couldn't have cost anything; it's so darn tight in there, don't want to damage the spring or circuit it's attached to.

If I was a Machinist, I would simply make a new switch cap for it and w/o the silly safety pin, and then battery length wouldn't be an issue, cause it can be solved that way.

The length varies of protected 18650 have never been a problem for me in all the flashlights I own, or other Lasers.

For now, I have the AW IMR (65mm, no protection required) and the LG (65mm un-protected) All the other batteries I have such as AW 2600, Shoshine 2800, TF2400 Red/Black are all rated very well on the CPF tests and I have been using them in Lasers and a dozen or so LED Flashlights I have, with no issues ever encountered over the years.

With the LED flashlights most any of the brands I have work just fine in them, and the DIY Laser builds; those are were I usually test my batteries. I carry a high output light every day and switch back and forth trying different 18650 cells and seeing how well it holds up for EDC use.


Then come along this unknown brand 18650 supplied by WL and BANG!

Stay Safe

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Nova Lasers X125, X150 & X175, DL100, BFGLaser 125mW

A-Laser Model AD66Y0PGD 660nm 200mW
DX-200 660nm & 532nm, Leadlights & numerous 5mw-100mW 532mn
IgorT (6x) 209mW & (PHR) 140mW, Kryton 155mW, Daguin 165mW
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Krypton 1W model and 750mW+ model (839mW)
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Last edited by electron; 10-03-2010 at 02:52 PM. Reason: Canceled Tenergy order in favor of AW IMR's.
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Old 08-30-2010, 04:14 PM #56
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Quote:
Originally Posted by electron View Post
Have you measured the Tenergy? I'm just curious, I know you have one and it fits for you, but we don't know how good the tolerence is on the Arctics from one unit to anther. The CPF test thread shows it to be 66.7mm in length and their source for them was batteryjunction. The Sanyo's & LG's are UL listed, but are un-protected.

I have been using the LG's for a long time with my RPL's with no issues what-so-ever. I would have thought with the battery indicator lights on the Arctic, a Quality un-protected cell would have been fine because you would know how far down the battery has been run. Again though, it's an Arctic and we don't know how "reliable" those battery capacity led's really are.

As you already reported, with most protected 18650 cells you can't fully screw the switch cap all the way down on the Arctic. It has really been designed for a 65mm battery. That is one of the reasons I bought the AW IMR, it's a better chemistry that doesn't need any pcb protection circuit to be added to the cell for safety and thus is only 65mm.

I personally haven't tried the Tenergy's yet (ordered) and want to see how well the cap screws down on the Arctic because it's still 2mm's longer than the supplied battery and all other un-protected cells with the exception of AW IMR's. I'll report on this when I get some Tenergy's.

WL sure didn't waste any metal building the Arctic, I mean a couple more mm's couldn't have cost anything; it's so darn tight in there, don't want to damage the spring or circuit it's attached to.

If I was a Machinist, I would simply make a new switch cap for it and w/o the silly safety pin, and then battery length wouldn't be an issue, cause it can be solved that way.

The length varies of protected 18650 have never been a problem for me in all the flashlights I own, or other Lasers.

For now, I have the AW IMR (65mm, no protection required) and the LG (65mm un-protected) All the other batteries I have such as AW 2600, Shoshine 2800, TF2400 Red/Black are all rated very well on the CPF tests and I have been using them in Lasers and a dozen or so LED Flashlights I have, with no issues ever encountered over the years.

With the LED flashlights most any of the brands I have work just fine in them, and the DIY Laser builds; those are were I usually test my batteries. I carry a high output light every day and switch back and forth trying different 18650 cells and seeing how well it holds up for EDC use.


Then come along this unknown brand 18650 supplied by WL and BANG!

Stay Safe

Remember too, the RPL is designed to use unprotected cells. The battery protection circuit is built into the RPL.
I doubt this is the case with the arctic, so using an unprotected 18650 in the arctic could cause it to go BOOM if discharged below the minimum level allowed per the batteries spec.
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Old 08-30-2010, 04:23 PM #57
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Quote:
Originally Posted by bootleg2go View Post
Remember too, the RPL is designed to use unprotected cells. The battery protection circuit is built into the RPL.
I doubt this is the case with the arctic, so using an unprotected 18650 in the arctic could cause it to go BOOM if discharged below the minimum level allowed per the batteries spec.
VERY good point Jack, Thanks!
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Nova Endeavor Series Laser - Average: 305.4mW Peak: 329.8mW
Nova Lasers X125, X150 & X175, DL100, BFGLaser 125mW

A-Laser Model AD66Y0PGD 660nm 200mW
DX-200 660nm & 532nm, Leadlights & numerous 5mw-100mW 532mn
IgorT (6x) 209mW & (PHR) 140mW, Kryton 155mW, Daguin 165mW
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Krypton 1W model and 750mW+ model (839mW)
Wicked Lasers S3 Spyder Arctic G1 (825mW) and Arctic G2 (805mW) SmartSwitch Technology V1 & V2 Models w/Expanded Optic Kits
Jayrob 18650 w/MicroBoost & CU Heatsink A140 Diode 900mW, 295mW Pen by Pontiacg5
Rifle v2 Full 1.2W,
Rifle v2 Full 500mW, Rifle v2 Full 300mW & Cyber 445 1.2W all focusable w/Full Lens Kits

Coherent's Newest High Performance LabMax-TOP Laser Power/Energy Meter Accuracy ±1.0%, Power Resolution 0.00001 Statistical Analysis: Min, Max, Mean, Range, Std Dev, Energy Dose, & Stability; Trend Charting, Tuning, Beam Stability Analysis, Extra Large Positional Display (112mm x 78mm) and Data Logging to a USB Flash Drive Directly on the Meter or PC w/ LabView Software.

D4thing LPM (3W), Andover LPM-1, Optic kits, and Certified Safety Glasses for Green, Red & Blue Lasers.
Chargers: Pila IBC (Swiss Designed & Engineered) the Gold Standard (UL). Xtar SP2 & VP1, Soshine SC-S1max V3 EagleTac & KeepPower 18650 3400mAh AA/AAA La Crosse BC1000 Maha MH-C9000 Eneloops
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:00 PM #58
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Quote:
Originally Posted by electron View Post
Have you measured the Tenergy? I'm just curious, I know you have one and it fits for you, but we don't know how good the tolerence is on the Arctics from one unit to anther. The CPF test thread shows it to be 66.7mm in length and their source for them was batteryjunction. The Sanyo's & LG's are UL listed, but are un-protected.

I have been using the LG's for a long time with my RPL's with no issues what-so-ever. I would have thought with the battery indicator lights on the Arctic, a Quality un-protected cell would have been fine because you would know how far down the battery has been run. Again though, it's an Arctic and we don't know how "reliable" those battery capacity led's really are.

As you already reported, with most protected 18650 cells you can't fully screw the switch cap all the way down on the Arctic. It has really been designed for a 65mm battery. That is one of the reasons I bought the AW IMR, it's a better chemistry that doesn't need any pcb protection circuit to be added to the cell for safety and thus is only 65mm.

I personally haven't tried the Tenergy's yet (ordered) and want to see how well the cap screws down on the Arctic because it's still 2mm's longer than the supplied battery and all other un-protected cells with the exception of AW IMR's. I'll report on this when I get some Tenergy's.

WL sure didn't waste any metal building the Arctic, I mean a couple more mm's couldn't have cost anything; it's so darn tight in there, don't want to damage the spring or circuit it's attached to.

If I was a Machinist, I would simply make a new switch cap for it and w/o the silly safety pin, and then battery length wouldn't be an issue, cause it can be solved that way.

The length varies of protected 18650 have never been a problem for me in all the flashlights I own, or other Lasers.

For now, I have the AW IMR (65mm, no protection required) and the LG (65mm un-protected) All the other batteries I have such as AW 2600, Shoshine 2800, TF2400 Red/Black are all rated very well on the CPF tests and I have been using them in Lasers and a dozen or so LED Flashlights I have, with no issues ever encountered over the years.

With the LED flashlights most any of the brands I have work just fine in them, and the DIY Laser builds; those are were I usually test my batteries. I carry a high output light every day and switch back and forth trying different 18650 cells and seeing how well it holds up for EDC use.


Then come along this unknown brand 18650 supplied by WL and BANG!

Stay Safe

My Tenergy is real close to the 66.7. My caliper is old slide rule type, so that's as close as I can tell. I also have longer batteries, TrustFire 2400 B/R. They are 68mm and the cap won't screw all the way down on them, so that's how close it is for the Tenergy. I really don't think it is a problem, the cap is still spring tensioned and is not going to screw off accidentally using longer batteries. I wouldn't by a Tenergy if you already have a good protected battery, but after seeing an unprotected one explode, I'm definitely not using an unprotected Li-ion battery.

How well do the AW IMRs last? That would be the only concern with them.

Also, what do think the top operating temp should be for these Li-ion batteries?
I measured the Tenergy at 110 degrees after one test.
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Old 08-30-2010, 08:56 PM #59
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoDnSuE View Post
OK, now I'm sufficiently scared/paranoid
I think I will use an old ammo box and charge them boogers OUTSIDE!

I have heard some of the horror stories with Liion's in the RC hobby but have not had any Liion batteries until now.

Should I use a ventilation fan in the box to help with cooling?
WOW! This also makes me a little paranoid, I use a charging bag designed for Lipo batteries in case they explode or catch on fire, also used for storage, they are fire proof but do not seal, they use a lap fastend with velcro,
I have 22.2v Lipo batteries that I use for my r.c. helicopters but after hearing this I will buy another bag and use it for my small betteries also.
BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION-lipo-bag.gif

If you are storing lipo or lion batteries they need to have a slight charge. I have a smart charger and it has a charge setting for battery storage, I just wish it would work for 18650 batteries.

I am glad this was not any worse than it was, electron was lucky on this one!
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Old 08-30-2010, 09:54 PM #60
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Lithium Ion Cylindrical cells should have a pressure release valve built-in. This valve breaks when the pressure is too great, allowing hot gases and flames to vent from the top of the cell, avoiding an explosion.

This shouldn't have happened, but that SOMEone was trying to be cheap....

OP, I'm glad you are ok, invest in some name-brand cells. Sometimes, those have valves that ALSO disconnect the innards from any external shorts to avoid further reaction.
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Old 08-30-2010, 11:25 PM #61
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Quote:
Originally Posted by ZapU View Post
My Tenergy is real close to the 66.7. My caliper is old slide rule type, so that's as close as I can tell. I also have longer batteries, TrustFire 2400 B/R. They are 68mm and the cap won't screw all the way down on them, so that's how close it is for the Tenergy. I really don't think it is a problem, the cap is still spring tensioned and is not going to screw off accidentally using longer batteries. I wouldn't by a Tenergy if you already have a good protected battery, but after seeing an unprotected one explode, I'm definitely not using an unprotected Li-ion battery.

How well do the AW IMRs last? That would be the only concern with them.

Also, what do think the top operating temp should be for these Li-ion batteries?
I measured the Tenergy at 110 degrees after one test.
I have two digital calipers, and the TF2400 B/R measures 68.55, the TF2400 gray measures 66.91mm, WL BOMB measures 65.04, and the AW IMR measures 65.05mm.

I do not know at this time how long the AW IMR will last though, haven't done any tests for run time. There are graphs I believe over at CPF, I'm going to have to dig and see what the temps are suppose to be for max too, not sure and that would be good to know also.
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:45 AM #62
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

My charger has temp feature and many others plus lipo capability . . .

It is the Duratrax Intellipeak Amazon.com: Duratrax Intellipeak ICE Competition Charger (DC): Toys & Games



You might also check Hyperion . . . http://media.hyperion.hk/dn/eos/

Quote:
Originally Posted by electron View Post
Do you know of any chargers at any price range that have that feature built into them? I'm waiting on word back from Pila, they are suppose to be much safer; I still believe it was the crap battery, but a heat sensor such as you have done, probably would have prevented this.

Thanks

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Old 08-31-2010, 02:00 AM #63
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

Quote:
Originally Posted by electron View Post
I have two digital calipers, and the TF2400 B/R measures 68.55, the TF2400 gray measures 66.91mm, WL BOMB measures 65.04, and the AW IMR measures 65.05mm.

I do not know at this time how long the AW IMR will last though, haven't done any tests for run time. There are graphs I believe over at CPF, I'm going to have to dig and see what the temps are suppose to be for max too, not sure and that would be good to know also.
After spending some time Google-ing Li-ion batteries, I have decided that there is a lot of variations in information, so this info is not 100% gospel. The consensus for upper operating temp is 60C (140F). They should not be charged over 49C (120F). You should get 300-500 full discharge/recharge cycles of useful life. They should be stored at 40%-60% charge at temps down to 0C (the lower the better) but brought back up to ambient temp before charging and use.
Quote:
Prolonged storage at elevated temperatures and high state of charge will result in the permanent loss of
performance of up to 40% per year.
Obviously, you should always remove the battery from the laser when not in use.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:52 PM #64
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Default Re: BEWARE of ARCTIC BATTERY EXPLOSION

I'm still interested in obtaining a few samples of this cell. I suppose if anybody has one that they aren't using, wanna sent it my way?
Please post info on WL "+ 18650 1300mAh -" cells

This explosion basically rules out the idea that they are a safe-chemistry LiMn

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