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Old 02-01-2011, 10:39 AM #65
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

It's great that people here are "banding" together (it's "BAND" not "ban") to try and retain general rights to use their lasers outdoors, but it is a hard sell. ILDA is concerned with this law potentially affecting reviewed, safe and registered shows using lasers. These shows should have variances and other legal procedures followed prior to the show's operation. That's a bit different than what's being advocated here, namely the right for regular people to shine lasers into open air without permits or other documentation. The only reasonable purpose for shining a laser into the sky other than laser shows would be star pointing. However, with star pointing, they too could go about registering for a variance, owning a permit, and follow any other procedural regulations for shining a laser into the open sky.

What about for the general public? Can you really think of good reasons why the general public should be allowed to shine lasers into the open sky? By "good" I mean where an authority would see that there is harm in not allowing it? I really can't, even as a laser owner. I also would prefer less lasers in the hands of irresponsible children (mentally and physically).

With this in mind, I think what should be advocated is requiring licensing for using > Class II lasers outdoors/open sky. This would satisfy those asking for greater regulations/penalties on laser use outdoors, while simultaneously giving laser owners a way to legally use their lasers outdoors. It'll be much like owning license for using GMRS 2-way radios or even guns. I also foresee that, like GMRS licenses, most people will not apply for a license and still use them. This is fine, because it still gives authorities a method to "enforce" legal use of lasers especially in problematic situations, as well as bring it to the laserist's attention that operation of lasers outdoors without a license is illegal and can be prosecuted. The requirement of licensing could also be well published so that people are aware of how to legally use their lasers. This would also be of use to ILDA because laser shows could also apply for licenses.

At least give your representative a way out that will help us all.


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Old 02-01-2011, 10:45 AM #66
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

That's why I'm figuring ILDA may be the best group to shape up this law... The only thing I don't want to see is things become illegal by a "technicality", which does happen sometimes when a law is written badly.

I will write though, to let my senator know that there are responsible enthusiasts out there. That can't hurt.

And... GMRS Licenses? WPWA837, thank you very much

I really have no problem with licensing. Whatever would be required of that, so long as it allowed me to have my lasers, even if it required proving that I can be responsible, and even registering them, I'd be fine with it. I already had to do that to be able to shoot out 1.5kW at much lower frequencies. Granted, the only one you're going to screw up with radio, generally, is yourself...
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Old 02-01-2011, 02:12 PM #67
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

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I really have no problem with licensing. Whatever would be required of that, so long as it allowed me to have my lasers, even if it required proving that I can be responsible, and even registering them, I'd be fine with it. I already had to do that to be able to shoot out 1.5kW at much lower frequencies. Granted, the only one you're going to screw up with radio, generally, is yourself...
Yeah, I just don't want to have all my lasers lumped into one category because some idiots who shouldn't own lasers have ruined it for the rest of us. If you shine a laser at an airplane you should be heavily fined and imprisoned for a short while.

There are few laws on the books regarding such lasers because it has simply never been a problem. Nearly all people just didn't personally own lasers that were considered hazards, or if they did they were usually the people who knew about the dangers before hand. Now we're in one of those "odd" technologic eras where civilians have easy access to inexpensive dangerous lasers and regulation needs to come swiftly before it becomes a problem like trying to restrict and ban guns in the US.

I personally think it would be wonderful if lasers were only in the hands of those who are responsible enough to use them properly (or rather not use them improperly). If that means licensing, so be it, and I think that would be a good solution.
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Old 02-01-2011, 05:24 PM #68
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

i feel like not enough people here care. which this thread clearly shows. even in elektrofreaks thread. It seems most people here have the Laissez Faire attitude.
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Old 02-01-2011, 07:27 PM #69
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

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Yeah, I just don't want to have all my lasers lumped into one category because some idiots who shouldn't own lasers have ruined it for the rest of us. If you shine a laser at an airplane you should be heavily fined and imprisoned for a short while.

There are few laws on the books regarding such lasers because it has simply never been a problem. Nearly all people just didn't personally own lasers that were considered hazards, or if they did they were usually the people who knew about the dangers before hand. Now we're in one of those "odd" technologic eras where civilians have easy access to inexpensive dangerous lasers and regulation needs to come swiftly before it becomes a problem like trying to restrict and ban guns in the US.

I personally think it would be wonderful if lasers were only in the hands of those who are responsible enough to use them properly (or rather not use them improperly). If that means licensing, so be it, and I think that would be a good solution.
I do not see that it would be possible for the normal public to get a said License. I think if they did that it would take it out of the hands of most of us and in turn underground Prices would hit the roof.
Let alone most lasers being built on this forum have no safety which would be a mandatory on any laser being used under a license.

I see more problems than a solution. Do you think they would allow normal Joe to own a now Licensed Product that is considered "Harmful to Aircraft flight" and would probably be labeled a weapon possibly?

I think they would crack down very hard, as im sure lasers would not get the same protections that Guns do.

Just my 2 cents... what do you think?
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Old 02-01-2011, 09:04 PM #70
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

@Krogith: I agree that a licensing restriction on lasers would take it out of the hands of many hobbyists, but it is preferable to a ban. Obviously if either situation can be avoided, then that would be preferable.

However, if lasers are ever defined as weapons (which I also agree that they would be once they are restricted), they would automatically be covered by the umbrella of the second amendment.

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Old 02-01-2011, 09:31 PM #71
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

at both^^^ a licensing restriction wouldn't take it out of anybodies hands. i am not a cop or military and i legally am a registered gun owner. it will only take it out of your hands if you are lazy. the second amendment doesn't cover weapons. it clearly states the right to bear arms. you can have a hammer or a stick no problem. it is not a constitutional issue. it is a new technology issue that is just making its way into the lime light.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:00 PM #72
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

Well I honestly do not think laser's will be under the 2ed amendment. I do not think it will get the same protection. And I see it put under professional use only And only those Certain Jobs that Require it will be able to get said license.

Write in and E-mail it will help for sure. But if there is not real group that is doing a counter argument for this nonsense they are getting feed. It doesn't look good.

This is already being classified as a danger to aircraft, you think you are going just be able to pay a few $$ and here ya go? I'm not saying it's impossible you can be right but I just think odds are looking bad.

We should try everything IMO or just at least write in like this thread suggested.
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:00 PM #73
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

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the second amendment doesn't cover weapons. it clearly states the right to bear arms. you can have a hammer or a stick no problem.
I respectfully disagree with this statement
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Old 02-01-2011, 10:59 PM #74
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

it is not a matter of arguement what is written and the supreme court has recently gone over it in case District of Columbia vs Heller.

the second amendment clearly says "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." the definition of arms is collective weapons used for hunting or fighting. lasers pointer and scanners/projectors don't fall into either category.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:41 AM #75
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

@chip: I agree, I thought you were saying that guns were not protected by the 2nd amendment, I was about to cite the exact same case. If I'm thinking of the case caselaw, This is the case abolished the ban on handguns in Washington D.C.

My earlier post was pointing out that IF lasers were defined as weapons, then they too would be protected.

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Old 02-02-2011, 12:48 AM #76
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

I think it will be considered Professional use ONLY. and will be very hard to obtain said license.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:04 AM #77
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

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@chip: I agree, I thought you were saying that guns were not protected by the 2nd amendment, I was about to cite the exact same case. If I'm thinking of the case caselaw, This is the case abolished the ban on handguns in Washington D.C.

My earlier post was pointing out that IF lasers were defined as weapons, then they too would be protected.

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i'll agree with that. but also note that congress knows that would give us more power. so defining a laser pointer as a weapon will probably never happen.
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Old 02-02-2011, 01:13 AM #78
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

Yes, your right, and the fact that lasers will probably never be considered weapons can be a good thing as well

I'm curious about your opinion in this matter: Do you think that congress will eventually enact federal regulations restricting the use of high powered hand held lasers? Or do you think it will be left upto the states? Or do you think this will all stop with the "Securing Cockpits Against Lasers Act of 2011"?
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Old 02-02-2011, 06:22 PM #79
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

i think if hand helds ever get to the point where they are as powerful and damaging as guns or knives, that there is a good possibility the federal government will react.
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Old 02-04-2011, 09:21 PM #80
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Default Re: ATTENTION!! Everybody needs to read this and take action NOW(New Bill/USA)

Edit: I mean yesterday, it passed the senate yesterday afternoon.

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