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Old 05-29-2015, 02:43 PM #1
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Default 5 Laser hits on Aircraft in NYC , a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 penalty

Just on NYC news --4 aircratft cockpits were hit by green lasers last night between 9:30 and 10:00 PM--- One of the aircraft was hit by 4 lasers reports say from near Bethpage State Park, about four miles northwest of Farmingdale, NY ---30 miles away.
See: Pilots Say Laser Was Pointed At Their Planes Over Long Island, NJ CBS New York

This is a serious Federal crime that carries a penalty of up to 5 years in jail and/or a $250,000 fine + a FAA civil fine of up to $11,000.

On February 14, 2012, the President signed Public Law 112-95 (PDF), the "FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012." Section 311 amended Title 18 of the United States Code (U.S.C.) Chapter 2, 39, by adding 39A, which makes it a federal crime to aim a laser pointer at an aircraft. See: https://www.faa.gov/about/initiatives/lasers/laws/ and also see: USDOJ: US Attorney's Office - Western Pennsylvania plus a FAA civil penalty of up to $11,000 see: https://www.faa.gov/news/press_relea...m?newsId=12765



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Old 05-29-2015, 02:56 PM #2
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Originally Posted by Encap View Post
Just on NYC news --4 aircratft cockpits were hit by green lasers last night between 9:30 and 10:00 PM--- One of the aircraft was hit by 4 lasers.

See: FAA says green laser pointed at four planes over Long Island | Fox News



Will idiots ever learn?
What's worse, the idiots the article is outlining, or the ones commenting?

"green lasers are used for munitions"... Said with such certainty. Here is some logic.. Why use a laser to aim munitions that will also lead the opponent right to the source? Being a highly visible WL and what not.
I have read of weapon systems that do utilize a green laser for targeting, but in far more sophisticated applications than what would be used by "terrorists" from a park in New York...

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Old 05-29-2015, 03:30 PM #3
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Default Re: 4 Lasers hit NYC Aircraft, a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 penalty

Quote:
Originally Posted by heratogwea View Post
What's worse, the idiots the article is outlining, or the ones commenting?

"green lasers are used for munitions"... Said with such certainty. Here is some logic.. Why use a laser to aim munitions that will also lead the opponent right to the source? Being a highly visible WL and what not.
I have read of weapon systems that do utilize a green laser for targeting, but in far more sophisticated applications than what would be used by "terrorists" from a park in New York...

DIPSHITS!
Definitely the drooling moron outlaws perpetrating and demonstrating such stupidity, pointing lasers at aircraft are much worse Media is only media.

PS the early news report has been updated and no longer mentions "munitions" appilcations, however, visable lasers are treated globally as blinding weapons and have been baned by the UN and that is a ban on use during war not everyday life --currently 105 nation have signed on this ban. see: Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.

The Internation Committee of the Red Cross says about the ban: "The prohibition, in advance, of the use of an abhorrent new weapon the production and proliferation of which appeared imminent is an historic step for humanity. It represents the first time since 1868, when the use of exploding bullets was banned, that a weapon of military interest has been banned before its use on the battlefield and before a stream of victims gave visible proof of its tragic effects" see: https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/d...isc/57jmlc.htm

The bad news for LPF members and responsible laser hobbyists is that this type of thing could lead to a complete legal ban - a Federal prohibition on class 3 and 4 lasers. Some are pushng for that now, Sen. Schumer of NY is calling for a Federal Ban, see: Charles Schumer, a U.S. senator, seeks ban on long-range green laser pointers - Newsday

Last edited by Encap; 05-30-2015 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 05-29-2015, 04:09 PM #4
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Definately the drooling moron criminal perptrators are much worse Media is only media.

PS the early news report has been updated and no longer mentions "munitions" appilcations, however, visable lasers are treated as blinding weapons and have been baned by the UN and that is a ban on use during war not everyday life --currently 105 nation have signed on this ban. see: Protocol on Blinding Laser Weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Internation Committee of the Red Cross says: "The prohibition, in advance, of the use of an abhorrent new weapon the production and proliferation of which appeared imminent is an historic step for humanity. It represents the first time since 1868, when the use of exploding bullets was banned, that a weapon of military interest has been banned before its use on the battlefield and before a stream of victims gave visible proof of its tragic effects" see:https://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/d...isc/57jmlc.htm

The bad news for LPF members and responsible laser hobbyists is that this type of thing could lead to a complete legal ban - a Ferderal prohibition on class 3 and 4 lasers. Some are pushng for that now, Sen. Schumer of NY is calling for a Federal Ban, see: Charles Schumer, a U.S. senator, seeks ban on long-range green laser pointers - Newsday
I was actually outlining the knuckle dragging mouth breathers that were commenting on the article.

And yes, I have read about Sen. Schumer from New York. More of this "blame the instrument not the user" nonsense.

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Old 05-30-2015, 11:27 PM #5
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on NYC Aircraft, a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 penalty

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I was actually outlining the knuckle dragging mouth breathers that were commenting on the article.

And yes, I have read about Sen. Schumer from New York. More of this "blame the instrument not the user" nonsense.

I understand what you mean, however ...
For all the criticism of the media in general and these incidents in particular they do a job that needs to be done of informing the public. A quick google of "5 aircraft hit by green lasers" shows coverage and reporting of this event by dozens of different media reports and well as government agencies.
All of this does help educate people that this kind of behavior is outlaw behavior for good, real, and valid reasons and the it carries a serious consequences and penalties if convicted. Beyond this the power that be can reach a huge number of people with billboards and other media at Airports with so many milions of people using airline transportation---would be a good idea if not already being done.

Hopefully there will always remain a way for responsible enthusiasts and hobbyists to have and enjoy lasers. A complete legal prohibition of ownership/possession of class 3 and 4 lasers, as Sen Schumer wants, is a overreaction for sure but if it is a choice for lawmakers between FAA concerns, pilot safety, safer air travel at takeoff and landing, and a small number laser hobbyists----guess who takes the hit.

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Old 05-31-2015, 05:25 AM #6
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on NYC Aircraft, a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 penalty

I'm surprised to read green lasers are used for munitions at all, when I worked with the military we used IR for that, never visible lasers.
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Old 05-31-2015, 06:46 AM #7
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on NYC Aircraft, a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 penalty

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I'm surprised to read green lasers are used for munitions at all, when I worked with the military we used IR for that, never visible lasers.
There is a whole lot of history involved from about 1980 on but to make a long story short: In 1995 the U.S. agreed to the UN Blinding Laser Protocol of the Convention on Conventional Weapons, the Pentagon has cancelled several blinding laser weapon programs. President Clinton stated at the time that the U.S. will abide by the terms of the protocol, even though the Senate has yet to ratify it. The Senate subsequetly rattified it in late Jan 1998 and it went into force on 30 July 1998.

The US Dept of Defense has many visable laser programs ongoing today as part of the Joint Non-Lethal Weapons Program see: Non-Lethal Weapons Program
The Dept of Defense defines non-lethal weapons systems as: "weapons, devices and munitions that are explicitly designed and primarily employed to incapacitate targeted personnel or materiel immediately, while minimizing fatalities, permanent injury to personnel and undesired damage to property in the target area or environment. Non-lethal weapons are intended to have reversible effects on personnel and materiel."

HAve a look--one current green laser system is the Green Laser Interdiction System see: Non-Lethal Weapons Program > Current Non-Lethal Weapons > Green Laser Interdiction System

THe Dept of Defense research has broken some new ground in understanding as well --example: "the first-ever documentation of a phenomena imparting key insights into the effects of lasers on biological systems. The Human Effectiveness Directorate-based Ophthalmic Imaging and Laser Damage team recorded the near-infrared-laser-induced occurrence of thermal lensing in a mammalian eye."

A lot of interesting research, development, testing and engineering has been done on portable lasers sponsored by the US Dept. Of Defense for a very long time -- long before there was any handheld hobby interest in lasers----a lot more is being done now today if DARPA programs are any indication see: http://websearch.darpa.mil/search?q=lasers&btnG=Search&entqr=0&ud=1&sort=date :L:d1&output=xml_no_dtd&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&client=default_frontend&proxystylesheet=default_ frontend&site=default_collection

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Old 05-31-2015, 04:46 PM #8
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on Aircraft in NYC , a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 pen

I am aware of dazzlers to temporarily blind someone, just not green lasers being used to guide munitions, only IR for that. Now that this question has come up, I wonder if it is illegal to defend yourself from an attacker using a visible or IR laser, for that matter, if your life is threatened?
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Old 06-01-2015, 01:18 AM #9
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on Aircraft in NYC , a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 pen

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I am aware of dazzlers to temporarily blind someone, just not green lasers being used to guide munitions, only IR for that. Now that this question has come up, I wonder if it is illegal to defend yourself from an attacker using a visible or IR laser, for that matter, if your life is threatened?
Yes pulsed and coded IR target designators like Special Operations Forces Laser Acquisition Marker (SOFLAM) PEQ-1C | Defense Media Network operate in the IR range like this one does with 1064nm.

I was taking the term munitions in the broad sense definition--- meaning weapons considered collectively.

Whether it is legal to or not and whether you could have civil liability for blinding and attacker even if no criminal law against it is good question?
As Bionic Badge said in post #3 here: Legality of laser for self-defense/deterrent?
"End message: if you're going to defend yourself, don't waste your time with toy-class self-defense weaponry (like tazers or lasers). Buy a gun and use lethal force, because that's what is going to be used against you. "
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Old 06-01-2015, 08:02 PM #10
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on Aircraft in NYC , a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 pen

There is a good overview page on Wikipedia about Lasers and aviation safety see: Lasers and aviation safety - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All we can do as LPF people on LPF is let people know what is responsible use and behavior with lasers, what is not, and what is outlaw behavior and criminal acts with lasers and the penalty that can be applied if caught and convicted.

Lasers are an interesting and enjoyable hobby for a lot of people. Let's hope that outlaw fringe activity doesn't ruin the hobby by forcing regulators to overly regulate or ban possession.

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Old 06-01-2015, 09:50 PM #11
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on Aircraft in NYC , a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 pen

Well if the laser is all I had, I would probably clobber the perp with it. All my hosts are flashlight size.
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Old 06-01-2015, 11:20 PM #12
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on Aircraft in NYC , a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 pen

Aren't visible lasers sometimes used by the military as a tracer method for cover fire?
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Old 06-02-2015, 11:24 AM #13
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on Aircraft in NYC , a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 pen

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Aren't visible lasers sometimes used by the military as a tracer method for cover fire?
I have never heard of this, it sounds too dangerous, the person using the laser would reveal his position and get shot or blown to bits by the enemy.

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Old 06-02-2015, 11:57 AM #14
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on Aircraft in NYC , a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 pen

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Originally Posted by FutureOne View Post
Aren't visible lasers sometimes used by the military as a tracer method for cover fire?
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Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
I have never heard of this, it sounds too dangerous, the person using the laser would reveal his position and get shot or blown to bits by the enemy.

Alan
There are many military laser products/devices in all power ranges. The high output long range dazzlers for Naval use can be generally higher output than sustems for land based use. Lasersec Systems (Jorvis, Finland) offers a 10W 532nm dazzler which is a poweful cost effective nonlethal maritime laser. Many shipping lines are considering using them as anti-pirate devices.
Lasesec Systems manufacturers an interesting 5W 532nm green laser dazzler rifle called Medusa and a 5W 532nm modlue UC-5 . See: http://www.lasersec-systems.com/asse...-datasheet.pdf and http://www.lasersec-systems.com/asse...asheet-web.pdf

Have a look> Here are a few of them--from the product listings of B.E. Meyers & Co., Inc. one of many prime contractor to US Dept. of Defense involving laser products. Interesting and very ruggedized for battle use laser products. Some very fancy and expensive hosts!

532 nmGreen laser military products: Search for "green" - B.E. Meyers & Co., Inc | Advanced Photonics IR military products: Crew Served Weapon | Weapon Aiming & Illumination Systems | B.E. Meyers & Co., Inc. They also make some low power 532nm ans 852nm modules for use in whatever might need a high quality module: Laser Module | Integrated Lasers & Sensors | B.E. Meyers & Co., Inc.

Some concerns have been rasied about he blinding capability of military 532nm and reported incidents of accidental eye damage of soldiers. US Dept of Defense have been fielding Green Beam designators with a new safety control module that will automatically reduce the laser’s power or shut it off if someone breaches the 65-meter safe zone -- see: Military sees rise in eye injuries from lasers - News - Stripes

Last edited by Encap; 06-03-2015 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 06-03-2015, 09:37 PM #15
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on Aircraft in NYC , a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 pen

It is worth mentioning Patrick Murphy's excellent Laser Pointer Safety web site to both new LPF members as well as old members wanting to know more about laser laws in USA and Internationally. See: laserpointersafety The site contains a wealth of information and links on laser statistics, use, safety, rules and regulation, and laws.

Following are a links to a few of the LaserPointerSafety sites pages:

USA laser laws:Laser Pointer Safety - U.S. laws for lasers and pointers

International laser laws: Laser Pointer Safety - International laws about lasers and pointers

Rules for those owning or using lasers in USA: Laser Pointer Safety - Laser rules and regulations for U.S. consumers

Rules for those selling laser pointers in USA:Laser Pointer Safety - Rules and regulations in the U.S. (For those selling laser pointers)

Last edited by Encap; 06-04-2015 at 09:57 PM.
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Old 07-22-2015, 06:49 PM #16
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Default Re: 5 Laser hits on Aircraft in NYC , a Federal crime- 5 yrs in jail and $250,000 pen

Saw another "news' article stating that 4 more planes were dazzzled by lasers in New Jersey just a day or so ago.

Of course many of the commenters on the article were morons.. "if they're shooting down planes with laser pointers, we need to ban laser pointers..."

<face-palm>

Way to ruin a good hobby whomever you are in New Jersey. Thanks for nothing.
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