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Old 07-27-2016, 12:25 AM #33
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

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Originally Posted by Razako View Post
Interesting, that's really cool!

It resembles a gun so much though, and definitely isn't legal for me to carry around...I might as well just keep my glock on me ya know? :/
Thanks for the suggestion though I'll definitely keep those in mind! would be the next best thing to have in this kind of situation



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Old 07-27-2016, 01:23 AM #34
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

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Originally Posted by Nyquist View Post
Sorry again for the violent-themed thread, not trying to conjure up a weapon-like tone for laser pointers, just trying to find any possible way to defend innocent people in case of a terrorist attack or another mass shooter scenario.
Many people are looking for something in those situations, even more so since these attacks have started to be an almost daily occurence in europe, where citizens cannot carry firearms in most countries.

I doubt things like dazlling lights will make a difference here, these are idiots shooting around with no specific target aiming for maximum casualties. They don't need to identify their targets and will shoot at anyone that moves regardless if they can see well or not.

At the moment the best defense seems to be a bullet proof vest and helmet, though those are so uncomfortable it's not a very practical solution. Also, society would look very odd if everyone would walk around in combat gear just in case.
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Old 07-27-2016, 01:46 AM #35
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

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Many people are looking for something in those situations, even more so since these attacks have started to be an almost daily occurence in europe, where citizens cannot carry firearms in most countries.

I doubt things like dazlling lights will make a difference here, these are idiots shooting around with no specific target aiming for maximum casualties.
Yeah I hear you. Hah, imagine if everyone carried powerful lasers, someone starts shooting and immediately gets 5-10 beams in their face
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Old 07-27-2016, 04:43 AM #36
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

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Thanks for the continued responses! Really interesting to see what everyone thinks about this.
Yeah I'm not as much interested in dazzlers as I am in a way of permanently blinding the pos. Usually what happens is they kill as many people as possible, and then are shot dead once police arrive. I'd rather blind them permanently so less innocent people die, and so that police can then question them and get information etc upon arriving.

I agree it's completely bogus how strict Los Angeles is with giving out CCW's, like I said earlier you literally need to be friends with or work for LAPD or the Sheriffs to receive one. You'll never see a non-leo with one unless they have received multiple death threats or something. I'm a great shot with my glock as well so it would be the obvious solution.

After reading initial responses I was tempted to buy a 532, but after looking at the Wicked Laser comparison that Encap linked, it seems like both wavelengths have the same "eye damage hazard" distances?

I guess at the end of the day I just want to feel able to defend myself in a life-or-death situation, and since I'm not legally allowed to carry my firearm on me where I live, it'd be nice to have something else that would somehow work in it's place. Not as interested in the "dazzling" effect, unless the blindness lasted 30+ seconds.

Maybe I'll do some digging this weekend for any studies that have been done regarding concentrated (laser) wavelengths and instant eye damage. Would be nice to know which, if any wavelengths will incapacitate the quickest (and I mean really incapacitate, to where they are useless. Not 'hopefully' incapacitate, like mace or a taser gun). Seems like 532 is the answer, but it seems logical that it would be used by the military because it doesn't permanently blind, but rather has the flash-blind effect? I'd prefer instant blindness to someone trying to gun down innocent civilians.

Sorry again for the violent-themed thread, not trying to conjure up a weapon-like tone for laser pointers, just trying to find any possible way to defend innocent people in case of a terrorist attack or another mass shooter scenario.
I think the mace or a taser have much better chances of incapacitation than a laser. Yes, the assailant might be blinded, but it's not going to be painful enough to stop anybody. If you've ever been flash-blinded, it almost definitely wasn't painful at all. Maybe a bit disorienting, but that's it.

Sure a laser/dazzler may help in a one-on-one situation, but an attacker in a crowd can shoot blindly at people.

Good mace is pretty unbearably painful, and a powerful taser/stungun will drop most people instantly so that you can apprehend them. Of course, it's a YMMV since anybody really hopped up on adrenaline or psychoactive drugs might be able to take it.

Honestly, using a laser of the variety most of us have like this seems like a last resort if you have no other options and shouldn't be your go-to defense. There are just better options for incapacitaton available.
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:45 AM #37
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

Hi.
Yoy say this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nyquist View Post
Definitely a fair point! And yeah I have, currently I carry a pretty high-powered tactical flashlight with an intense strobe,
Which light did you buy for this please?
I ask,because I have myself some of those tactical lights.
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Old 07-27-2016, 08:49 AM #38
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

You say that you can blind him legally,if he shoots first you down dead.Is it true?
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Old 07-28-2016, 12:00 AM #39
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

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Good mace is pretty unbearably painful, and a powerful taser/stungun will drop most people instantly so that you can apprehend them.
The downside of those is very limited range, well below the range of a simple handgun.

Something like a dazzler or blindingly powerful laser with the correct optics could be constructred to be effective at large range, 100s of meters, well beyond the point someone could reliably shoot you with a simple handgun.

Flash blinding a person may not even be that painful, but could prevent him from shooting someone specific for some time. With these random islamic killings that won't make a difference though.

This makes the practical use somewhat limited: terrorists shoot as many people as they can regardless of if they can see them all that well, and if someone wants to kill you specifically he'll probably shoot you in the back.

Perhaps it would be somewhat useful in things like street robberies, though i doubt it would be that effective in close corners either: if you manage a robber pointing a gun all he has to do is fire the weapon since it's already pointing in the right direction.
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Old 07-28-2016, 02:39 AM #40
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

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Originally Posted by Nyquist View Post
Thanks for the continued responses! Really interesting to see what everyone thinks about this.
Yeah I'm not as much interested in dazzlers as I am in a way of permanently blinding the pos. Usually what happens is they kill as many people as possible, and then are shot dead once police arrive. I'd rather blind them permanently so less innocent people die, and so that police can then question them and get information etc upon arriving.

I agree it's completely bogus how strict Los Angeles is with giving out CCW's, like I said earlier you literally need to be friends with or work for LAPD or the Sheriffs to receive one. You'll never see a non-leo with one unless they have received multiple death threats or something. I'm a great shot with my glock as well so it would be the obvious solution.

After reading initial responses I was tempted to buy a 532, but after looking at the Wicked Laser comparison that Encap linked, it seems like both wavelengths have the same "eye damage hazard" distances?

I guess at the end of the day I just want to feel able to defend myself in a life-or-death situation, and since I'm not legally allowed to carry my firearm on me where I live, it'd be nice to have something else that would somehow work in it's place. Not as interested in the "dazzling" effect, unless the blindness lasted 30+ seconds.

Maybe I'll do some digging this weekend for any studies that have been done regarding concentrated (laser) wavelengths and instant eye damage. Would be nice to know which, if any wavelengths will incapacitate the quickest (and I mean really incapacitate, to where they are useless. Not 'hopefully' incapacitate, like mace or a taser gun). Seems like 532 is the answer, but it seems logical that it would be used by the military because it doesn't permanently blind, but rather has the flash-blind effect? I'd prefer instant blindness to someone trying to gun down innocent civilians.

Sorry again for the violent-themed thread, not trying to conjure up a weapon-like tone for laser pointers, just trying to find any possible way to defend innocent people in case of a terrorist attack or another mass shooter scenario.
Green at 532nm is your only choice. It's the wavelength readily available closest the the peak sensitivity of human vision at 555nm.

Unlikely to work as you speculated and too risky.

Personal directed energy weapons from what I seen are close quarters offense defense weapons.

Related news:
US Navy ship-mounted 30kW laser weapon tested in Persian Gulf
"He added that the US Navy would comply with the Geneva Convention conditions that prevent directed energy weapons being used against personnel but if, for example, hostile boats threatened a US asset, they could be subjected to a range of powers from a warning “dazzle” through damage to onboard technologies to full destructive power." US Navy ship-mounted 30kW laser weapon tested in Persian Gulf

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Old 07-28-2016, 07:00 AM #41
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

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Hi.
Yoy say this:

Which light did you buy for this please?
I ask,because I have myself some of those tactical lights.
Yeah man! I always carry a ProTac 1AA with me. Not the BEST light on the market, but it sure does the trick and is very blinding within 10-20 feet. it's big enough to not lose, but i never notice it clipped to my left pocket!
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Old 07-28-2016, 07:02 AM #42
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

I still think that blinding a shooter will reduce the amount of people they can kill by far. Sure if it's crowded as hell they will still be able to spray bullets and hit people, but in most other cases not having vision will significantly reduce their ability to hit anyone. I'm worried about someone who is adept with their weapon going unopposed - not someone who is blindly firing in my general direction. It's hard enough to hit targets when you can see.

I may spring for a 2W 532, but my wallet shivers at the idea...hmmm
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:53 AM #43
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

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I still think that blinding a shooter will reduce the amount of people they can kill by far. Sure if it's crowded as hell they will still be able to spray bullets and hit people, but in most other cases not having vision will significantly reduce their ability to hit anyone. I'm worried about someone who is adept with their weapon going unopposed - not someone who is blindly firing in my general direction. It's hard enough to hit targets when you can see.

I may spring for a 2W 532, but my wallet shivers at the idea...hmmm
For it to be most effective at distance you'll need one with low divergence < .5 mrad. Take a look at such devices on the web to see what I mean.
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Old 07-28-2016, 03:37 PM #44
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

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I still think that blinding a shooter will reduce the amount of people they can kill by far. Sure if it's crowded as hell they will still be able to spray bullets and hit people, but in most other cases not having vision will significantly reduce their ability to hit anyone. I'm worried about someone who is adept with their weapon going unopposed - not someone who is blindly firing in my general direction. It's hard enough to hit targets when you can see.

I may spring for a 2W 532, but my wallet shivers at the idea...hmmm
Blinding or temporarily dazzling the shooter might at least give people the opportunity to rush him and disable him. He'll still probably kill some people, but it might reduce the damage he can do. As for the legal issues, I don't think those are the top concern when some nut is trying to slaughter everybody. What's the shooter gonna do? Sue you? "Oh, I was casually minding my own business shooting up a crowd of people when this guy ruined my eyesight with a laser".

Concealed carry is the much better option, but if you live in a 'criminal lives matter' state where that's not an option you might need to improvise.
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Old 07-28-2016, 10:02 PM #45
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

A post from another thread. A laser used as a tool to give one a chance to extricate from a bad situation seems to have good potential.
Quote:
The laser came from just outside the airport perimeter, and so the distance was not that great, perhaps between 700-1000 feet at the closest distance and a mile or so at the farthest. I can tell you that even at a mile if it hits the pilots eyes at night, especially on a cloudy, no moon, low city light pollution - or in the case of LGA (KLGA to be exact) - overwater - the temporary blindness can be extremely dangerous. Anytime an aircraft is "lased" for lack of a better term- below 10,000 feet is significant. In my case we were lased at 200 feet till about 1500-2500 feet and it rendered me completely blinded temporarily for about 20 seconds.... which while hand flying, close to the ground could be really dangerous. I happen to be not at the controls, as captain and First Officers swap flight controls each flight (basically).
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:35 PM #46
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Old 07-28-2016, 11:52 PM #47
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

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Blinding or temporarily dazzling the shooter might at least give people the opportunity to rush him and disable him.
Well, just people rushing them would help a lot.

We are used to running away, seeking cover, etc as being the proper response to a gun wielding idiot. This might still be the best thing in many cases, but not in the one where (mostly islamic) terrorists just go for maximum casualties and will shoot you in the back if you run.

In such a case a crowd jumping the shooter will probably increase chances for everyone. Sure, he may get off a shot and if lucky that'll be a miss or at least non lethal.

It's the same thing with people hijacking airplanes. Before 9/11 most passengers would probably comply with demands, be moved to the back of the plane and what not - expecting to be eventually released as most hostages were in the past.

If someone tries to hijack one know chances are all the passengers on board will have a go at him. And in honesty, your chances with 10 rounds or so against 100 people swinging and throwing duty free liquor bottles are your head are not that good.

Perhaps in some circumstances a laser could help - if i had it on my i'd probably try to lase the shooter in the eyes if i already expect to get shot. I doubt it would be feasible to blind both eyes quickly, but the distraction could be enough to do something else (throw a brick at their head, storm them etc).
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Old 07-29-2016, 06:21 AM #48
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Default Re: 1W Laser for Self Defense in an Active Shooter Situation

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post

Yeah. People really don't have much respect for how powerful the various peper spray products are. Sure they don't have great range, but they are so debilitating for quite a long term. Not as immediate as a taser or gun in a situation that requires split seconds, but still pretty quick. Anybody that's hit will be functionally blinded due to the inflamation, but the pain will overload the senses and not really let you focus on anything else.

If they could just make a mace gun that can shoot a puff of the stuff really far, police forces would likely be all over it.
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Free after another brutal semester.
I'll still be a bit busy this summer, but expect to see more of me.
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