ohada

Greetings LPF members and guests.

I've been working quite a bit on this review, mainly on producing the photos and videos.
Finally I have everything I wanted to post, so here we go.

I've divided the review to sections since it's very long.

So where do I start? At the beginning...


Purchase Experience:
I bought the laser through a group buy on this forum, arranged by member Glenn (username "scopeguy20"):
http://laserpointerforums.com/f55/cn...6-a-39838.html
Glenn did a fine job with this group buy, here's another chance for me to say thanks.

Unfortunately I received a defective unit, and had to RMA it. This is the time-line from purchase to receiving the working unit:
11/March - Made the order (payment) to Glenn - $900 plus shipping and customs.
24/March - Order made to CNI by Glenn.
28/April - Package arrived to Glenn.
11/May - Laser arrived to me. Over next few days turned out to be defective (very unstable and usually underpowered).
18/May - Sent to CNI.
25/May - CNI got it.
16/June - CNI sent replacement (this time directly to me).
22/June - Finally got the good laser. Cheers!

Summary:
- Overall it took more than 3 months for me to get the working unit...
- I'm so glad I have a good LPM! (Deluxe LaserBee I)
- CNI service was fine (kind and responsive), although they didn't take the initiative to update me what's going on, I had to keep asking for updates.


What I Got:
So this is the model: CNI PGL-III-C 532nm 500mW.
Spec by CNI: http://www.cnilaser.com/PDF/PGL-III_-C_-532.pdf

What the spec doesn't say, but CNI made it clear before the purchase, is that the 500mW has a strict duty cycle of about 1 minute on and then it needs cool-down (5-10 minutes is enough, depending on environment).

Laser in my hand:


Compared to other models (DL Spartan, WL Executive, DX Dilda) and AA battery:


Comparison of beam exit:


"Class IV Laser Product" sticker :



Safety Features:
Obviously such a laser must have safety features and be handled cautiously.
The safety features of this laser the standard:
1. Lock & keys at the bottom.
2. Safety pin (I think it could be used for remote control).
3. LED indication for on/off.
4. Few seconds delay before beam is emitted. Together with the LED indication this is very useful.

And you must have protective goggles, I have two WL goggles (for me and the girlfriend, which BTW is the photographer). I wish I had some goggles for the cats, so I wouldn't need to close them in a room when I use the laser...

Keys:


Pin - in & out:



LED - off/on (it shows better in reality):



Goggles (AA battery for size perspective):



Power Measures
Over the last week I've measured the laser again and again with my LPM, and I'm very pleased with the results.

The LPM is a Deluxe LaserBee I, which is very accurate and reliable, I have used it on many lasers.

Of the 9 measures I took, the laser always reached above 500mw, stayed above 500mW in 6 measures and above 450mW in the other 3, all of this for a duration between 50 to 80 seconds.
It usually peaks above 600mW, the highest I measured was 678mW (!!!).

This laser doesn't like heat. It's usually very hot where I live and I've found that the laser performs better in a cool (air-conditioned) environment - higher output and longer duration.

After 50-80 seconds the power starts to decline gradually (CNI weren't kidding about that duty cycle), so I turn it off immediately, I don't want to take any risks of permanent damage.
When I don't measure it, I try to limit the usage to 60 seconds at most.

*** Edited this section on IR ***
Regarding IR Filter: This laser includes a built-in IR filter, and no IR (or negligible IR) is emitted from it. I've tested this by adding an external extra IR filter (taken from the Spartan BP) and the power measure was not affected (see my reply post below).

Here are the graphs of the 9 measures I took:






Two photos of the LaserBee I in action, checkout the 678mW peak and the nice green reflection:



And a short video:



Beam Shots
The beam can be seen inside a lit room, without a fog machine, and at night sky it's incredible, like a long infinite light saber.

I don't have a fog machine, the beam shots I took were with long exposure outside (shining on some trees in my block).

Divergence: According to CNI spec it's <1.5mm, which as much as I could see seems right, the laser reaches very far (beyond what I can see) and I see the dot easily kilometers away (at night).

Compared to a WL ~120mW green:


Compared to WL ~50mW green, DL 20mW blue, IgorT 210mW bluray (doesn't appear at all, my camera can't detect this wavelength) and DX <200mW red:



Snapshot from a video inside a lit room:


Unfocused with a lens (I'm no expert, but I think this shows the laser working in TEM00 mode):



Destructive Power
Here's the fun part...

Popping 25 balloons in the bath tub:


Popping 23 Balloons in a row, the last one is 6 meters (19.5 feet) far from the laser:


Lighting several matches, the last one is 2.6 meters (8.5 feet) far from the laser:


And some photos taken from the videos.
Balloon pop (see the nice illumination and then the rubber in the air):



Match Lighting:





My Conclusions
I'm happy to join the very exclusive club of portable Class IV laser owners, the other members are probably Hercules owners.

This laser is great, CNI has done an excellent job here.
It's main disadvantage is of course its duty cycle which makes you plan each experiment you intend to do.
It also has a slightly bigger (worse) divergence than other high power portable greens available by Laser Glow / Optotronics / Dragon Lasers.

I would say the price of this laser is fair ($900), if not more than fair, considering the alternatives such as LG Hercules, Opto RPL and DL Hulk Ultra, which are all excellent I'm sure, and have better cooling (Hercules) to avoid duty cycle, but are much much more expensive.

I do wonder though if it will have a long life. In any case I'll try to use it as much as possible in the 6 months of the warranty period.

I hope you liked this review, and I'll be happy to add more information or multimedia on request,

Ohad

realista

it is one of the best review.....!!! the bad thinbg is that you firstly received a BAD unit. and if a user do not have a laser power meter.. how can check it??? XD

however.. the laser is very powerful. you payed it 900. but... without the group boy.. how should cost it?
it hasa no so long duty cycle..but its power i've seen that often INCREASE ..in seconds.. however... i don't know if is the same thing to buy an o-like 500 or 600mw filtered. i saw a video of the filtered 250 olike that peak at 350... 400. so if i imagine the tiltered 500 or 600.. it schould be a beast( or maybe susie in these laser count PEAK and not sunstained power)

your review is a lot precise...and with nice pics.... your laser is so bigahahahaha .... the only problem is that these kind of laser are NOT PORTABLE XD could be fantastic to go in street or in summer at beach disco's ( here where i live ..there are a lot of disco on the beach) and shine in the sky a class 4 laser but.. where do you put the laser ???

is for this reason that i only like small laser.. in PEN size.. and i would buy the MOST powerful pen laser to bring with me everywhere ( i think it is about 150/200mw the most....in pen size)

ohada

Hey realista,

I'm not sure how much it would cost without the group buy, but I imagine the discount was 10-20% at most.

I had an idea how to test the IR emitted by this laser, the Spartan blue laser has an IR filter cap that can be removed so I'll use it, and update the post with the results.

I know what you're talking about with the laser size, pen lasers are much more fun, I always have a small laser in my bag everywhere I go...

Ohad

realista

ehehhe everywhere you go :P IDEM aahahahha but i only have a 30mw. i qould buy a 150mw green.. one of the most pen laser. but thghere is a problem. all laser seller test them with 3v... BUT.. all person will use laser with 2 x nimh rechargeables batteries!!!! so real power could be lower than advertised howeever.. youtr laser is good.. but there is a little rpl that i love.. it is the rayfoss 200mw and dealextreme 200mw.. both sold at about 150$ it seems a good deal. i cant imagine how nice should be to see your laser beam in the real life however your choose is one of the best price7quality. for a powerful but cheap laser.. go to olike.. but it divergence is worse than your cni. ( mmmm how watt is your diode? 2 or 2.5 watt?) inteead.. hercules ..and optotronics rpl are one of the best laser.. BUT.. at high price XD. your cni laser is in the middle of price and quality. ..... mmm tour cni is the same sold at novalaser ??

john_lawson

900 is a really nice price i think you scored i mean after a minute a 500-600 532 nm
everyone in town knows its on lol just think winter time its going to be longer duty cycle

__________________
The first step is admitting you have a problem

Techlaser 532 100 mw cni pointer 106-110 mw
Wicked laser 532 evo pro 135 mw-mnf sample
Wicked laser spyder pro 2 240 mw mnf sample
Wicked laser spyder 1 pro 180 mw nice sweet unit

kenom kryton groove 405 nm 125 mW phr
enighmus 405 two cr123a host nice 100 mW
6x wicked core 200 mw glass lense

650 loc in susies Rpl host 175 mw glass lense
pen style loc 200 mw glass lense

ohada

Small update on IR - the laser definitely includes an IR filter and doesn't emit IR.
I've added an extra IR filter I took from the Spartan BP, and made another power measure, same result.

Out of curiosity I tested this filter on a DX Dilda (Red), and saw its power dropping from 190mW to <10mW.

Here are a couple of photos of the laser with extra IR filter and the power measure.

themandalorian

Excellent Review I'm ordering from CNI as another Group buy soon. But I bet you're going to get mad

They DO sell the Hercules at CNI. I'm awaiting prices but I can't wait to get a fan cooled laser

Edit: Hey do you want to get in our group buy and get a beam expander. Same as the ones from Laserglow (I THINK! CNI said that beam expander is probably made by them) The price is 52 dollars for a 5x and 104 dollars for the 10x

Post in our GB thread for more info, get a tighter beam! for only 50 bucks

ohada

I didn't know they have a fan cooled model, perhaps I would have bought it, depending on the price.
Anyway I'm happy with my unit as it's a very high quality.

I may be interested in some items from CNI, I'll post it on the GB thread.

themandalorian

Alright cool. Hey no denying that that is a great price and that looks like a great laser.

My friend has glens 265mw PGL III A and he loves it.

scopeguy20

A very good review Ohada! I saw one member post that if you have no meter you don't know the output. It is something I check with a meter before I re-ship. I don't know why your first one was doing well here in California then bad in your town, but I suspect it either got it's internal alignment messed up from a shipping bump, or the unit had some other early failure. These are a bit delicate. However most of them I have sent along to the various GB folks held the output that I measured upon receiving them. So a member with no meter will usually know the output of the unit. I also have bought several pen type, and these can be great so, the size is a little deceptive. We pay about $300 for the 150 rated pen, (not including shipping), but it has been usual to output 175+ mW and the 50 mW units, ($105 shipped) are 90 to 110 mW from the earlier orders. Another great deal is the 473 nm blue laser pens (GLP 473 nm 5 mW) these are doing 10+ mW and what a beautiful color! Try about $308 shipped in USA! Thanks all and A special Thank You to Ohada!

__________________
6X Bluray >260 mW, & New FAV! 8X >500 mW! Made by IgorT Flaminpyro BR &
~4 Red Burners on board ~650 nm 175, & ~250 mW & ~300mW
3 Hene's 632.8 nm & 2 635 nm pointers
Rigel 3-4 mW I Love it!
PGL III 589 nm rated 5mW is >20 mW a new fav!
Many Green lasers, EVO PRO Peak ~160 mW & Spyder I Peak 295 mW are my new green favorites!
LG Aquarius -10 & Viasho 473 nm peak ~29 mW & From WL on loan, Spyder III rated 60mW but peaks ~100mW!
!!!!! 500mW 445nm portable now on board Thanks Flaminpyro LINK !!!!!
Blurays by IgorT, john lawson & EzPk0970, jayrob lenses, IgorT 6X & 8X!
spiro toy mods w/ side aperture for any pointer Spiro toy in Red & Violet by yobresal too!
Laser sleds/ diodes sold so far 1050+, MY IgorT .5 WATT BR is HERE NOW!
NOTE: More GGW's & PHR's still some left! !!LINK!!

themandalorian

Yeah His review will help me (and Glenn) get more interest in our group buy. This is really amazing though!

realista

50mw that.. are 100mw XD wow.. seems a good deal at 105 shipped. about 100mw FILTERED?... mmm too good to be real

Gryphon

WOW O.o Watching the mW's sail past 1/2W and continue up past 600mW's was insane! I can only imagine what it must be like to hold that laser while its in operation.

__________________
OK....I see................wait, what now?

7 Color "White" Laser
B0323 at 125ma [MiniMag]
B0323 at 150ma [Project Box]
B0323 at 125ma [INOVA]
50mW 473nm O-Like Labby
10mW 1AAA Pocket Pointer
150mW Techlaser's [MiniMag]
18X LG at 350ma [MiniMag]
22X LG at 350ma RS Pen

nikokapo

Oh..WOW...CHUCK this is an EXCELLENT review, man.

+1+2+3+4+5 +10 if I could, great videos, especially the 23 balloons in a row... I reached 1:04 and thought "Hey is he gonna pop the 23 balloons in less than 50 seconds?" And when you turned that beast on and I saw you popped like 15 of them in less than 3 seconds my eyeballs fell out of their eye sockets.


Please keep doing these amazing reviews

__________________
I like cereal.

themandalorian

OK CNI is being rude. And then I found out they won't sell me the hercules, first they said they would and now they won't. I HATE people going back on their word.

The Duty cycle for this does scare me. How is it that this has a duty cycle of about a minute with a few minutes coold down, and an RPL is 5 minutes with about 2 minutes cool down?

BrewCityMusic

@Mandolorian: A lot probably has to do with the strict QC that companies like Optotronics and Laserglow implement - Justin and Jack have excellent reputations to uphold, and accepting products that aren't perfect in every sense of the word for resale just wouldn't work with the type of business they conduct.

As an example, I routinely order chinese pointers for resale from several suppliers and can say that out of an order of 20pcs of the EXACT same model, some will have a really short duty cycle, some will be stable as long as you feel like holding the button. Out of that same order, the specs can range from 20% under to 40% over, divergence can be from needle-perfect to baseball bat beams. Now, granted, these are low $$ lasers but I still don't want to resell crap so the underpowered, unstable, off-center, or poorly set-up lasers either go back for credit OR I take a partial credit and sell them at a greatly reduced cost at the shows, just to move them.

Viasho makes the RPL, but do you think they're going to slap the Optotronics sticker on a 400 that puts out 350 or maybe heats up really fast? Nope - that honor goes to the 400 that tests at 475 and stays cool under pressure. Same with CNI and the Laserglow models they produce, the best go to Justin and the rest go to whoever orders them, as long as they work, they ship.

While I'm the first guy to love a "deal", over the years I've learned that quite often (especially with "specialty" products such as lasers) there really is a lot of truth to the saying "you get what you pay for". If I MUST have a 400mW green with PERFECT attributes, no matter what, I'm gonna spend $1300 with Justin, If I am willing to roll the dice, and can live with possible quirks like having to return it if it isn't quite right and wait for another, or maybe get a laser that heats up quickly, or whatever - then I'll roll a $900 set of dice in a group buy or something to that effect.

And lastly (WOW the coffee's strong this morning or maybe I wasn't as hung over as I thought, sorry about the mile-long post) in regards to the "Herc" from CNI, that's a simple one - Laserglow holds the rights to that model, period. Selling one direct would be a huge leap of bad faith for CNI, and to be honest, if I was Justin and I saw someone talking all over the forum about getting a cheap Hercules in a GB or for that matter ANY WAY, you can bet I'd be up at 4AM on the phone with CNI reminding them of the rules. The Herc is a $2-4K laser and has proven itself to deserve that price tag, there just ARE no "bad" or "iffy" Hercs out in the public - yes, there's an issue of distribution rights, etc involved but the bottom line is that those rights protect the reputation of both the Hercules model and Laserglow as a Company.

It's good to see people making the shift from "OOOh, a 500mW laser for $600" on (insert URL here of chinese reseller) to seriously considering a $900 investment from a company such as CNI in the name of quality - but no matter how you slice it, it's a step in the right direction, but it's still just a step. The next one is to get your $$ in hand and call Jack or Justin - then (and only then) is the journey complete.

__________________
LaserGlow Hercules - Over 500mW of Perfection! (Sadly, this one has been sold!)
400mW RPL-style in need of minor realignment - not as cool as the herc but a temporary fix...
(2) SXD Modules in Ehgemus Hosts - 156mW and 173mW
Laserglow Galileo with O-like Module - 144mW
(6) Assorted Chinese AAA Pointers from 44mW to 144mW
Laserglow Aquarius - 18mW peak 15mW steady
6X GGW in Custom Kryton by Daguin - 264mW w/Larry DFW Lens
8X BDR in Custom Kryton 401mW (Mohrenburg Build)
LCC in Kryton Groove - Conservative 255mW
(2) Old-Style Dildas running at 8.4V - 241mW and 233mW
2-3mW HeNe Custom Desk Lamp *Under Construction*


(26) Assorted Laser Displays from SHINP 100-500mW
(2) Custom 130mW Diffraction Projectors
Custom 170mW Lumia Wheel Projector
20K Scanner System *Under Repair/Renovation*
LaserBee I With Data Logging - Great Low Cost LPM!

Assorted Labbies, Modules, PHR's LOC's, etc - LOTS of it!

themandalorian

Well Maybe I can negotiate pricing. See if they have a scratched unit or something. I only work at starbucks, AND part time so it kind of sucks (i'm 17).

I will see however. I may just place an order, and could always get LG or Opto for christmas. Time will tell. However I am seriously considering Viasho or CNI though. THank you for the help however

BrewCityMusic

Don't forget that both LG and Optotronics have "trade-in" programs, from what I've seen it's rare to find one of their traded lasers "in stock" however you should be able to get on a list... It's still a wait (just like a GB is) but you may actually be able to get your hands on a confirmed quality product for a pretty damn nice price - give Justin and/or Jack a call!

__________________
LaserGlow Hercules - Over 500mW of Perfection! (Sadly, this one has been sold!)
400mW RPL-style in need of minor realignment - not as cool as the herc but a temporary fix...
(2) SXD Modules in Ehgemus Hosts - 156mW and 173mW
Laserglow Galileo with O-like Module - 144mW
(6) Assorted Chinese AAA Pointers from 44mW to 144mW
Laserglow Aquarius - 18mW peak 15mW steady
6X GGW in Custom Kryton by Daguin - 264mW w/Larry DFW Lens
8X BDR in Custom Kryton 401mW (Mohrenburg Build)
LCC in Kryton Groove - Conservative 255mW
(2) Old-Style Dildas running at 8.4V - 241mW and 233mW
2-3mW HeNe Custom Desk Lamp *Under Construction*


(26) Assorted Laser Displays from SHINP 100-500mW
(2) Custom 130mW Diffraction Projectors
Custom 170mW Lumia Wheel Projector
20K Scanner System *Under Repair/Renovation*
LaserBee I With Data Logging - Great Low Cost LPM!

Assorted Labbies, Modules, PHR's LOC's, etc - LOTS of it!

yobresal

What is the beam diameter like on these?

__________________
Watch my Youtube videos. I have a bunch more and there is more to come. Click the ads too if you want to.

1 WATT GREEN LASER
DUAL LASER PHASER
445nm STARTING FIRE


My lasers:
250mW 650nm waterproof o-like
650mW SPYDER III PRO
100mW CNI Clone
5mW Lyra Gold
90mW GLP-473nm
130mW PGL-III-M
650mW Chrome Pocket mini 445nm
1200mW Ehgemus black stallion 445nm
840mW Chrome pocket mini
780mW Ehgemus Black Stallion

ohada

Hey, thanks for the feedback, it was actually 16 balloons in 3 seconds.

I'm happy to contribute to this forum that I like so much. I plan to do more reviews of new and old lasers.

GooeyGus

In all fairness, viasho and CNI make really really really nice units. I've ordered directly from them many times for myself and others and have never had a problem, 99% of the units make well over their stated power.

I know that opto and other distributors take advantage of the fact that they are usually over powered. If a 300mW model from viasho tests at 440mW (and they do, quite often), it can be sold as a 425mW RPL. I'm not bashing this practice, because ultimately the distributor is responsible for backing up the power rating they give it (and they do a very good job at it) but I think it is only fair to let people know that if they decide to buy straight from the manufacturer, they will almost always get an overpowered unit.

Everyone tends to try to say that the quality of these units are all due to the efforts of the distributors. Again, they DO do a very good job of making sure that their units live up to the stated power level and do strict testing, but ultimately the credit for the build quality goes to the manufacturer. You can expect the same quality from the major manufacturers (CNI, Viasho) as you would expect from Optotronics or laserglow.

I'm just trying to give some credit where credit is due

themandalorian

I know where You are coming from Gooey, Even IF you get a dud, there is still a Warranty from the manufacturer

realista

gooey..are you sure?... generally distirbutors.. have better beam specs... WHY?? maybe they ONLY GET... the better unit of laser...with the best divergence?

GooeyGus

Riddle me this... Why would a major manufacturer only give the good products to their distributors, and make their own products look worse when they sell them directly?

If you buy a brand new car, will the car itself be any better or worse depending on which dealership you buy it from? Would ford sell you a hunk of junk directly and save all the 'good' ones for someone else, in turn making themselves look bad? Hardly....

themandalorian

Glenn said they actually cherrypick the units for him. Have you seen someone complain? EVERY one was overspec.

beam divergence is a good question though