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Old 10-22-2009, 10:16 PM #129
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

So, Dave, i'm just starting to read through the thread, but was any testing done already, or not yet? Like a PIV plot i mean?


In any case, for me, the sled being the same as 8x is a GOOD sign, not a bad one...

If the sled was completelly different looking, what would you have done with the diode by now?
If the sled was completelly different there is actually a better chance that the same diode is used..



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ah, igor, come on! you cant be offline or asleep now, can you? quick, someone call and alarm him! :-)

manuel
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:17 PM #130
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

ah ok fair enough.

i need to get my hands on a 8x and 12x diode do some testing
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:20 PM #131
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

uhm, post 95 has some numbers.. :-P

actually i just now found all the news since dave's plotting, its now that i realized this is already a day old! ;-)

manuel
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:22 PM #132
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

Anyone remember when we first herd of the 12x diode some months ago? It was allot of write-up about the diode that was going to be used in the 12x drive, along with its pulsed and CW power.
I'll try to find the article...
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:22 PM #133
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

Quote:
Originally Posted by IgorT View Post
So, Dave, i'm just starting to read through the thread, but was any testing done already, or not yet? Like a PIV plot i mean?
I emailed you the data I collected. Plus it is quoted by Andy Conn just above here.

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Old 10-22-2009, 10:24 PM #134
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

dave i know your a busy man, but if you get time send me a link or post one here of the best place to get a 8x diode and ill start my own testing, then ill move onto 12x

if thats ok?
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:30 PM #135
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

Here's were we where some months ago, may be useful somehow...

12x diodes from Sanyo and Nichia

Newly developed 405-diode (12x) 450mW CW
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:30 PM #136
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

Dave, you the man !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Feels awesome to finally see some data !!!!!!!!!!

Also feels awesome to be holding my check I got for work today !!!!!! ROFL

It seems like there are 2 scenarios here:

1) Dave got a FREAK 8x !!!!!!!! lol

2) 12x has a slightly higher output compared to 12x, so it's much easier to break the Class 4 barrier now !!!


My money is on 2
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Old 10-22-2009, 10:43 PM #137
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_con View Post
dave i know your a busy man, but if you get time send me a link or post one here of the best place to get a 8x diode and ill start my own testing, then ill move onto 12x

if thats ok?

Best price I can find on an 8X right now

LG BH08LS20K 8X SATA Blu-Ray Writer Black Drive Bulk - eBay (item 350267259078 end time Nov-18-09 15:14:38 PST)

Peace,
dave
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:08 PM #138
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

Here's all the data (including efficiency stats)

Current (mA),VF,Power Output (mW),Input Power (W),Power Out (W),Efficiency
0,0,0,0,0,#DIV/0!
57,4.1,48,0.2337,0.048,0.205391528
100,4.49,125,0.449,0.125,0.278396437
150,4.95,198,0.7425,0.198,0.266666667
200,5.24,281,1.048,0.281,0.268129771
250,5.48,356,1.37,0.356,0.259854015
300,5.64,443,1.692,0.443,0.261820331
350,5.76,519,2.016,0.519,0.257440476


If it looks funny, save as .CSV and open in Excel or OpenOffice.

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Old 10-22-2009, 11:15 PM #139
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

Quote:
Originally Posted by FireMyLaser View Post
Anyone remember when we first herd of the 12x diode some months ago? It was allot of write-up about the diode that was going to be used in the 12x drive, along with its pulsed and CW power.
I'll try to find the article...

It was Sanyo announcing a 200mW CW / 450mW Pulsed diode.

But latest reports show a 150mW CW / 300mW Pulsed requirements for 12x drives. And diode manufacturers show 300 or 320mW Pulsed diodes meant for 12x drives..

We won't find the 450mW Pulsed Sanyo diode in these.


But i do expect them to have the 300mW Pulsed diode.

The 8x in comparison is 125mW CW / 250mW Pulsed....
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Old 10-22-2009, 11:57 PM #140
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

Ok, i took a look at Dave's first numbers, and typed them into a plot (i had to extrapolate the 50mA value, since Excel doesn't like it if the points are not evenly spread out), but it looked all crooked....


So i went to calculate the slope efficiencies..

Starting from 100mA, the power climbs
- 73mW per 50mA
- 83mW per 50mA
- 75mW per 50mA
- 87mW per 50mA
- 76mW per 50mA

So i calculated the average - 78.8mW per 50mA... From that, the slope efficiency would be 1.576mW/mA..

Then i went to the very top, and calculated backwards, taking 78.8mW off the number, again and again, until i reached zero.
This allowed me to make a straight graph, and also to calculate the threshold current, which would be 29.3mA, if the numbers are correct. But this is another indication there is something wrong.. 8x's usually have an Ith of 33mA.. 12x's should have a slightly higher one, on the other hand 6x's also have an Ith of ~33mA....


Problem is, there must be something wrong with the numbers, since the slope efficiency changes so much between different steps.

But still, using the averages is the best approach to compensate for that, and results in this (attached)...



The slope efficiency itself seems like that of a good 8x, the Ith should be higher, but then again, i calculated it from numbers which there is something wrong with...


Since the 8x's do vary a bit, theoretically it would be possible to use the highest efficiency ones to achieve higher speed writing.

In fact, the highest efficiency diodes could perhaps easily be rated for a higher power without "cheating", because they produce more power at the same current, while surviving just as long or even longer....


If this is so, that would mean, that if you stumble upon a very high efficiency 8x, it's the same thing as a 12x.
But to confirm this theory, it will take several 12x plots.. If they all turn out to be like 8x super freaks and don't have their own spectrum of efficiency variation....


But i'm still hoping this is a completelly new diode made tougher and more capable of handling the higher powers...
Attached Thumbnails
Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205-daguin-12x-piv-plot-corrected-lr-2.jpg  
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:12 AM #141
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

Good job Igor...

You may want to add the lens used on that graph you made just to avoid future confusion.
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:20 AM #142
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

Thanks..

And yea, you're right, i'll edit the pic..

Also, now that i have the average slope efficiency, i could also calculate a correct starting point..
Since there was no good starting point (no 50mA measurement), i decided to go backwards instead, just too speed things up.


But i'll recalculate the 50mA value, and go up with 78.8mW steps.. I'm assuming the laser was a bit warm at 360mA especially with the plotting before that, so the power was probably 2-4mW lower than it would normally be.

But in the worst case, that means the graph should be moved up by 2-4mA.. It should be quite accurate as it is.


But i'll do it from the bottom up to make sure, and mention the lens used, when i edit the post.
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:21 AM #143
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

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Originally Posted by IgorT View Post
Ok, i took a look at Dave's first numbers, and typed them into a plot, but it looked all crooked....
That's my fault. Science suffered for speed.

Since we have pretty much established that the old 3mW resolution graphs are no longer needed (because the old "kinks" are gone), I was a bit sloppy with exact current measurements. I just wanted to get the slope out there.

For example, if the driver set stopped at 148mA I just recorded it at the 150mA spot that I already had on my graph paper. I know. I'm old. I use graph paper. I was more concerned with getting this done, (since they are hitting the streets and people are going to be thinking about buying them) than in being completely accurate. I figured the slope was what was important.

Your average is probably better than my measurements for the purpose of identifying if this is a new diode or not.

We need a couple more tested to see if this "higher efficiency" is a real factor or an artifact of this first diode.

After that is established, we might consider "pushing" one a bit higher

Remember the "S"03 folks. We NEED more than one test to begin to "know" anything.

Peace,
dave
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Last edited by daguin; 10-23-2009 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 10-23-2009, 12:35 AM #144
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Default Re: Pioneer 12X Blu-Ray-- BDR-205

We should donate to a 12x murder fund !!!!! lol

Seriously.

Even if each member donates a few bucks. We can easily have enough to test/kill one 12x
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