My Newly bought Spartan for less than a month died

Jaxz said:

This is not my sole responsibility. They have to be responsible for the return shipment. What are you implying may I ask?

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Hi.

I bought two Spartans from them, and both are still fine. You must be one of the very few unlucky ones.

As for your shipping issues, it really does matter where you are in the world. Your country clearly has lower prices for shipping in general.

You want to know how much tracked shipping starts at here in the UK?...

... Over $60!!!

And that's if you shop around.

It can go up to as high as ~$90.

The policy of every single company I've ever dealt with when buying overseas is to share the costs of shipping in cases of product failure.

That's just how it works.

I am a little confused though.

You seem to agree with others who said you should pay to send it back to them, and they will pay to send it back to you, but you also said that it's now with them and they won't send it back unless you pay for return shipping????

IF they will pay for return shipping back to you in cases of genuine product failure, then it must be that the laser was found not to be faulty in which case they would be within rights to expect you to pay for return shipping.

bbshamsa said:

Hi.

I bought two Spartans from them, and both are still fine. You must be one of the very few unlucky ones.

As for your shipping issues, it really does matter where you are in the world. Your country clearly has lower prices for shipping in general.

You want to know how much tracked shipping starts at here in the UK?...

... Over $60!!!

And that's if you shop around.

It can go up to as high as ~$90.

The policy of every single company I've ever dealt with when buying overseas is to share the costs of shipping in cases of product failure.

That's just how it works.

I am a little confused though.

You seem to agree with others who said you should pay to send it back to them, and they will pay to send it back to you, but you also said that it's now with them and they won't send it back unless you pay for return shipping????

IF they will pay for return shipping back to you in cases of genuine product failure, then it must be that the laser was found not to be faulty in which case they would be within rights to expect you to pay for return shipping.

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Dear above , you don't have to be confuse. The Spartan is newly bought. I always man-handled it carefully, treating as it it was a baby, never roughly. I use all te recommended batteries as stated in the guide, it has less than 1 hr total run time in my hands. I have every right to demand as a customer.

I am a very unhappy customer when I felt my trust was broken. So at first, I requested for a refund. Initially, I was still very forgiving, I accepted the replacement proposal by them. But as a condition, consumer-rights protection law, it is very common for shops in Singapore to bear all shipment cost. Then, Nevermind since it is international, I accepted the explanation that it is only fair for both party to share the shipment cost. I understand China consumers may not enjoy as much consumer rights as Singaporeans. I gave way the second time to them. For your info, my feelings were already very tense, because firstly, I don't get what I requested, and now I don't get what I deserve.

Finally, I broke my snap when the last email replied by Dragon Lasers that not only they won't pay for my shipment to them, they also won't pay for the return shipment. This feels like scam to me. Look, this is so obvious, are you that blind? Then twhite828 says something about my English, alright, let me give all of your the most latest email reply by them. Tell me now, what do you understand. Don't tell me you are still ignorant with twhite828 that Dragon Laser will share the shipping cost with me.

Just frankly tell me this and stop beating around the bush:

1) Is Dragon Laser bearing the cost for the shipment for the replacement laser from China back to Singapore?

thank you very much

(The Spartan w must be in good working condition, with duty cycle more than 10mins, with no surface blemishes, nor anyother physical flaws. It must also produce a peak of more than 1000mw and an average constant steady output power of at least 1000mw for at least 10mins as stated in the review that you gave me : http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/dragon-lasers-1w-spartan-54013.html)



p.s.
and the information on batteries is a review made by laserlight, and I bought exactly the same yellow tenergy with silver strip 3.0v 750mAH as recommended by him. do you want me to take a hoto of my batteries to convince you? I am using the recommended battteries for your info, thanks.



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From: "frank@dragonlasers.com" <frank@dragonlasers.com>
To: Tan Chia Hao <sg_hao@yahoo.com.sg>
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November 2010 13:12:06
Subject: RE: RMA #26N11365 Dragon Lasers Company


Hello Hia Hao,



Return shipping paid by the customer is standard . No matter whether you are returning an iPhone to Apple or a xBox to Microsoft, you need to pay for the cost of return shipping .

If you go back over the email I gave you that included the reference to the review on laser pointer forum, you’ll see that I gave it to you for extra information on batteries .



Regards
Frank

Green Laser, Laser Beam Optics, Laser Safety Glasses : Dragon Lasers

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twhite828 learn to read carefully now. It is obvious that THEY ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE RETURN SHIPMENT. THANKYOU, you had a powerful english to teach me english. sorry caps.



And com'on, I am a Singaporean who understands Mandarin myself. MY ancestors were Chinese, Don't tell me how much shipping cost in China, I have been to China for all you know, I know what is there like, thanks for teaching me about China. There are thousands of Mainland Chinese staying in Singapore. Many of them are crude, they talk loudly in public and have generally bad manners. They like to squeeze and push around to get to places, com'on, there is only one door, wait one more second can die? And when buying things, they like to demand our local shops to give in to discounts, I mean, com'on the prices is stated there, just buy it. If bargaining once or twice won't work, you don't have to stick your butt in that shop for 30mins, 1hr and refuse to leave and talk loudly on the phone. You are just forcing the shop owners to give you a discount lest you chase away all his customers.

For your info, quite a number of us have negative impressions of Mainland Chinese. There're many bad business experience from local businessmen. Newpapers reports of many unsucessful business ventures. As the common saying goes said by Taiwanese and Hong Kong busnessmen to us Singaporean businessmen, "It seems like compare to them, we Singaporeans are not up to their culture of being devious enough".

More and more chinese brides scamming cases on our local men. Soon we all know overseas brides from China are getting problemetic. So you don't have to teach me all your experience dealing with Chinese companies, we all know ourselves.

Jaxz said:

Dear above , you don't have to be confuse...


... Finally, I broke my snap when the last email replied by Dragon Lasers that not only they won't pay for my shipment to them, they also won't pay for the return shipment. This feels like scam to me. Look, this is so obvious, are you that blind? Then twhite828 says something about my English, alright, let me give all of your the most latest email reply by them. Tell me now, what do you understand. Don't tell me you are still ignorant with twhite828 that Dragon Laser will share the shipping cost with me.


twhite828 learn to read carefully now. It is obvious that THEY ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE RETURN SHIPMENT. THANKYOU, you had a powerful english to teach me english. sorry caps.

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No need to be rude.

Only trying to help, as I'm sure everyone else was.

Not that it would matter to you, but I took a look at DL's returns policy, as it seems you didn't bother...

..."Defective Product Replacement

The warranty period for every product is listed in that products website page. If there is any problem with your product during the warranty period, you can send it back to us and we will replace it with a new one for free. You are responsible for shipping cost."

Maybe in future you could make it a priority to check official returns policies before choosing to buy?

By the look of it, you deserve whatever you get imo.

Good luck.

Thanks fr trying to help, I don't mean to be rude to you, but thanks anyway, I appreciate it.

I am taking a chance for them to breakthrough their market into Singapore. I agree our country is so small, there is nothing we can do. But come to think of it, just because it is small, I am aware how big or how small is the laser community here. IF they don't want to do business in Singapore but only focus on big countries, so be it.

Thanks anyway for help, there is nothing much you can do anyway. They they are so adament on not bearing both cost, so let them be. To me, this is just an experience. SG$500 for this total experience. SG$458.68 to be exact. IF you insist this being their policy, then good luck to them. Just take my Spartan as a donation. Let them decide which customer to sell it to after repairing it. I benefit nothing. And thanks for your blessings, you can't do anything but reply and reply here, I will have more luck.

Jaxz said:

twhite828 learn to read carefully now. It is obvious that THEY ARE NOT PAYING FOR THE RETURN SHIPMENT. THANKYOU, you had a powerful english to teach me english. sorry caps.

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My apologies sir, next time I will entirely refrain from helping you. :tired:

Also:

We are not responsible for shipping both ways.

Click to expand...

This is a true statement if they are only paying one way -OR- if you are paying both ways.

We are not responsible for shipping either way.

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This is a true statement if you must pay both ways.

Yay free English lessons?

-Trevor

Jaxz said:

For your info, quite a number of us have negative impressions of Mainland Chinese. There're many bad business experience from local businessmen. Newpapers reports of many unsucessful business ventures. As the common saying goes said by Taiwanese and Hong Kong busnessmen to us Singaporean businessmen, "It seems like compare to them, we Singaporeans are not up to their culture of being devious enough".

More and more chinese brides scamming cases on our local men. Soon we all know overseas brides from China are getting problemetic. So you don't have to teach me all your experience dealing with Chinese companies, we all know ourselves.

Click to expand...

If you've had such bad experiences with Chinese companies, why did you do business with them in the first place?

As for return shipping, one reason the customer pays return shipping, and the company pays shipping back from them is to prevent customers from abusing the replacement policy. For example, some inept customer may claim that the laser is not working, but the person forgot to even put batteries into the device. Does the company eat the cost of paying for shipping both ways only for such unreasonable conditions? The pattern may even repeat itself.

You speak of paying both ways on shipping is an "international" standard. But whom have you dealt with that supports that policy? The only companies I've dealt with that would pay for return shipping on a defective product were some large companies that serviced the OEM sector, and DealExtreme (ironically, a Chinese company, and unfortunately I'm trying to get them to refund my shipping charge rather than give it as store credit), who offer free shipping anyway.

What you need to ask yourself is: is the return shipping cost worth having a functioning laser? If it's not, don't ship it back. Otherwise, ranting on a laser pointer forum about Chinese companies isn't going to do you any good.

Just frankly tell me this and stop beating around the bush:

1) Is Dragon Laser bearing the cost for the shipment for the replacement laser from China back to Singapore?

thank you very much

(The Spartan w must be in good working condition, with duty cycle more than 10mins, with no surface blemishes, nor anyother physical flaws. It must also produce a peak of more than 1000mw and an average constant steady output power of at least 1000mw for at least 10mins as stated in the review that you gave me : Dragon Lasers 1W Spartan)



p.s.
and the information on batteries is a review made by laserlight, and I bought exactly the same yellow tenergy with silver strip 3.0v 750mAH as recommended by him. do you want me to take a hoto of my batteries to convince you? I am using the recommended battteries for your info, thanks.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: "frank@dragonlasers.com" <frank@dragonlasers.com>
To: Tan Chia Hao <sg_hao@yahoo.com.sg>
Sent: Tuesday, 30 November 2010 13:12:06
Subject: RE: RMA #26N11365 Dragon Lasers Company


Hello Hia Hao,



Return shipping paid by the customer is standard . No matter whether you are returning an iPhone to Apple or a xBox to Microsoft, you need to pay for the cost of return shipping .

If you go back over the email I gave you that included the reference to the review on laser pointer forum, you’ll see that I gave it to you for extra information on batteries .



Regards
Frank

Click to expand...

Are you sure that you are reading the Highlighted orange part right or am i Reading it wrong.:thinking:

It looks like to me that the are saying Return shipment to them you will have to pay, But i dont clearly see them saying there not paying for them to ship it back to you.?

lazeerer said:

Are you sure that you are reading the Highlighted orange part right or am i Reading it wrong.:thinking:

It looks like to me that the are saying Return shipment to them you will have to pay, But i dont clearly see them saying there not paying for them to ship it back to you.?

Click to expand...

You're not reading it wrong. Jaxz just thinks Spartan Lasers should pay for his return shipping costs in addition to sending it back to him. I've gotten indignant about such things as well, but usually only for DOA items, or completely wrong items being sent. In the case of one sleazebag company (EliteXTreme to put a name to them), when they shipped me the wrong screwdriver, they gave me the run-around about shipping it back and having my return shipping paid for, since the screwdriver cost LESS than the shipping itself and it was entirely their fault for sending out the wrong screwdriver. So I got my money back from my bank, and hopefully they got to eat a chargeback fee for their sleazebag behavior. Their site "threatened" that any chargebacks would incur a $20 fee, but I would've disputed that as well had they actually tried it.

But enough of that, Jaxz will simply need to pay for the Jaxz-to-Spartan shipping if he wants it repaired.

Bionic-Badger said:

If you've had such bad experiences with Chinese companies, why did you do business with them in the first place?

As for return shipping, one reason the customer pays return shipping, and the company pays shipping back from them is to prevent customers from abusing the replacement policy. For example, some inept customer may claim that the laser is not working, but the person forgot to even put batteries into the device. Does the company eat the cost of paying for shipping both ways only for such unreasonable conditions? The pattern may even repeat itself.

You speak of paying both ways on shipping is an "international" standard. But whom have you dealt with that supports that policy? The only companies I've dealt with that would pay for return shipping on a defective product were some large companies that serviced the OEM sector, and DealExtreme (ironically, a Chinese company, and unfortunately I'm trying to get them to refund my shipping charge rather than give it as store credit), who offer free shipping anyway.

What you need to ask yourself is: is the return shipping cost worth having a functioning laser? If it's not, don't ship it back. Otherwise, ranting on a laser pointer forum about Chinese companies isn't going to do you any good.

Click to expand...

Well, the in my opinion, the return cost not worth the repair. There is no garrantee that history will not repeat itself. Who knows I get a defected product again, then I have to bear the cost of shipping once more, I'm getting tired. I should have waited many more days for Frank to reply my email when I asked him initially whether or not DL is bearing the shipping cost. But since the ticket says it is valid for only 7 days, and due to my job schedules, I only have weekends to visit the post office. Sort of impatient, and it was a Saturday anyway when my Spartan broke down (on Thursday), so if I waited for Frank to reply days later, I wouldn't be available to make a trip to the post office on weekdays. And if I waited till the next weekend, which I would be available again, the ticket would have expired, and got to re-apply again, sort of troublesome. I proceed in returning the laser anyway without waiting for Frank to reply. Anyway, Frank has replied that's all I need to know now because I have done my part in paying for the so called "requested" tracking shipment. I will not pester Dragon Lasers to ship it back. It's entirely their decision. If it appears at my doorstep one day, then it is wonderful, and I will award some rep to them in my context.

Anyway, thanks for all the replies, I appreciate. I am done with lasers, not fun any more. Keep the replies coming in, I may pop in as and when to check, sort of tired, thanks everyone for the help. bye

Pulling in countries wasn't my intention. I lost my anger and rant. This is my fault, but yea, there are negativities in me. But I do admit not all Chinese are like that, and I do encounter some nice ones in my countries, they are slightly more educated and better mannered just majority are just crude. If you asked, yes $500 to me can last my family of 5 members for more than 2 weeks of food and rice. I can also do many more things with $500 other than just using it for fun.

I will take it as I misconstrue their words. Lets hope for the best solution, I just move on, it doesn't matter whether or not they aren't shipping my Spartan back now.

Your calm explanation is very acceptable to me. Yes, in fact I did ran through those thoughts before, I did consider their stand that not all consumers are as genuine as I'm, some are out there to scam, in fact even Singaporeans scam too, I have been scam by my own country mates before. Well, the world is not perfectly round. Just my bad luck that I got a defected one. Anyway, I am done with laser, I'm disappointed that my Spartan can't even pop black balloons at 9 feet away, while a 150mw green can do it easily. Sort of wierd that a 1w isn't comparable to a 150mw green in burning power, my guess was probably Spartan lack of focus lens. I think probably the Spartan needs some add-ons in order to burn well.

If I ordered a DIY, it might be custom made with G-1 lens and xj-140 diode and probably up to 2w of burning power. It might also be using a massive aluminium as heat sink with 10mins of burning time. I do see some positive side of this Spartan experience. In owning a Spartan before, at least I got some experience handling a 1w laser before moving on to more powerful ones. The reflection is more deadly that I experience with my green. Blue light emit under the gap of my door and lit up the rooms ouside even i am playing with it with my room doors shut, my mum who was outside my room like got a scare. Even with my OD+7 from Laserglow on, looking at the dot 1m away on the wall at 90degrees is not recommended, it make me nausea. I can imagine how the dot would be like if it was a 2w. These experience will prove useful if I owned an even more powerful DIY.

Good luck getting high powered laser pointers from a manufacturer not based in Asia.

Bionic-Badger said:

You're not reading it wrong. Jaxz just thinks Spartan Lasers should pay for his return shipping costs in addition to sending it back to him. I've gotten indignant about such things as well, but usually only for DOA items, or completely wrong items being sent. In the case of one sleazebag company (EliteXTreme to put a name to them), when they shipped me the wrong screwdriver, they gave me the run-around about shipping it back and having my return shipping paid for, since the screwdriver cost LESS than the shipping itself and it was entirely their fault for sending out the wrong screwdriver. So I got my money back from my bank, and hopefully they got to eat a chargeback fee for their sleazebag behavior. Their site "threatened" that any chargebacks would incur a $20 fee, but I would've disputed that as well had they actually tried it.

But enough of that, Jaxz will simply need to pay for the Jaxz-to-Spartan shipping if he wants it repaired.

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Thank you my Friend for making it a little clearer to me.

Cyparagon said:

Good luck getting high powered laser pointers from a manufacturer not based in Asia.

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I may buy, or I may not, but thanks for your caution. Anyway, Afaik, there are no Asian manufacturers making a 2w portable blue with side-clicky and forward click. Those custom 2w blue are made by caucasians.

Jaxz said:

I received my Spartan 1W about slightly 3 weeks ago, and probably less than 1 hour of total run time, has now died on me. The beam is so weak, I don't even have to use my Laser glasses anymore, the beam as if it is only 5mw. Then the Beam flickers and then disappears. Now it is totally dead.

I have tested it with my newly arrived nospin LPM before it was working fine, the peak that was measured last time was 1.2W, and settles at 1.1w constant for 1 minute of run time.

I am using 2x Tenergy's 3.7v 750mAH. I had measured my batteries just now with a meter, they are all still at full power.

What should I do? Did the diode died? This laser cost me $370 Singapore Dollars, and I still haven't get my worth out of this laser yet.

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In your first post you said you used 3.7V batteries.

Doesn't the Spartan require 3.0V batteries, not 3.7V as you have used?
That would be cause for failure, customer error.

You later claimed in your email to DL that you were using 3.0V batteries, which was it?

p.s.
and the information on batteries is a review made by laserlight, and I bought exactly the same yellow tenergy with silver strip 3.0v 750mAH as recommended by him. do you want me to take a hoto of my batteries to convince you? I am using the recommended battteries for your info, thanks.

Click to expand...

This is my typo error. I am using the recommended 3.0v 700mAH Yellow with silver strip Tenergy's from Lightro's review. I was very agitated that time, I didn't bother to check. Did i spell the auhor of the rview correct;ly?

Do you want me to provide you a screen shot of all my transactions for the past 6 months to prove that I bought the vcorrect batteries? FYI, Singapore do not sell rechargerble CR-123s. Not I know of. We only have Energizer cr-123,

My main Gaming cmputer is down and I can't even play mny favourite game, Diablo II LOD, all my 5 pvp chars stay there stagnant. All the while since october, I am using my brother's Laptop to type. I am not use to a small area of typing, please forgive me for not checking throught my essay for spelling errors or grammar mistakes. I am so angry that time, I don't bother to check. Thinking of it don't help. It is a good thing Dragoin Lasers maintain some communication and update me everytime, I give them rep for this


case is resolve, Dragon Lasers have already got my RMA, and they said it is working fine. They recommend me to Charge and discharge my Tenergy's at least 4-5 times before use. I am new to this hobby so I didn't know I have to do this to li-on. Lightro didnt specify either. thanks you

Cool, glad it's resolved. :san: