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Old 12-12-2010, 08:47 PM #17
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

I just remove the static by hand and store it in my anti-static lock box


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Old 12-12-2010, 11:20 PM #18
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
Hehe.

How many people have tested the solutions being proposed here in the real world?

Common ESD devices made to protect semiconductor products won't work for Laser Diodes. If you want to understand why, see this page:
LASORB - ESD absorber for laser diodes

We have tested TVS as well as multi-layer varistors and other approaches. They won't work for laser diodes. LASORB is the only thing proven to be 100% effective at preventing laser diode failure caused by ESD and power surges. And it's only $2 if purchased in large quantities...

There is a wealth of information on the LASORB web site, including videos showing how well it works, and pictures showing our test bench.

Best regards,

William Benner
smelling a GB :P
well J/K but, $2 for a guaranteed protection, I would buy
I'm not advertising, but it looks serious and so.

edit: as their site says.. Quantity/Price:
1 / $8
10000+ / $2.00
yeah he is right: at large quantities it is $2 (sarcasm on)
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Old 12-12-2010, 11:47 PM #19
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Well, lets consider $8 at the going price then.. it would have to be a darn expensive diode to warrant a protective device this expensive.

Not only that, but you still have to solder the protector onto the laser diode, leaving it vulnerable at that moment - probably just as vulnerable as when you are connecting the diode to a driver. Most drivers have some output capacitance or connected transistor elements that would also offer some degree of ESD protection once soldered to the diode.
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Old 12-13-2010, 12:58 AM #20
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
Hehe.

How many people have tested the solutions being proposed here in the real world?

Common ESD devices made to protect semiconductor products won't work for Laser Diodes. If you want to understand why, see this page:
LASORB - ESD absorber for laser diodes

We have tested TVS as well as multi-layer varistors and other approaches. They won't work for laser diodes. LASORB is the only thing proven to be 100% effective at preventing laser diode failure caused by ESD and power surges. And it's only $2 if purchased in large quantities...

There is a wealth of information on the LASORB web site, including videos showing how well it works, and pictures showing our test bench.

Best regards,

William Benner
$2 @10000 units. Sure.

I can see recouping your costs, but $8 is high for your average $15 diodes.
Then there's the size issue.

At least you have a price list and payment page now. Making them easier to price and buy is helpful.

I haven't gone around and zapped my protected diodes with a Schaffner ESD gun, but I have lost -zero- units since I installed the TVS's.
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:24 AM #21
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Chances are you will not lose any diodes really...a bit of common sense is also a 99% effective ESD mitigation measure
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:00 AM #22
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Benm View Post
Chances are you will not lose any diodes really...a bit of common sense is also a 99% effective ESD mitigation measure
I agree! How many designs leave the LD leads exposed to ESD anyway?
If you are careful, things get buttoned-up quickly and then the metal boxes/hosts do the shielding.
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:01 AM #23
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mohrenberg View Post
I just remove the static by hand and store it in my anti-static lock box
I keep all my static in a box too!
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:19 AM #24
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Hehe. Well, you guys raise a number of interesting points and questions, and there are some basic answers I can give:

Even if a laser diode is only $15, the question is, what is the cost of an overall system failure?

Some of our clients use low-cost laser diodes in machines that themselves cost tens of thousands of dollars! Others use them in medical devices. Still others use them on the Mars Explorer. The diode itself may be inexpensive, but an overall system failure could be literally fatal!

Up until now, I believed this forum was vaguely similar to Photon Lexicon, since everyone uses laser diodes. I guess the guys on Photon Lexicon are using higher-power diodes, and so the cost of protection seems more reasonable... Many folks on Photon Lexicon are using our LASORB to protect their laser diodes and find significant value in it.

In any event, for hobbyists on this forum, it might not be all that important. If you folks don't see the value, then you don't see the value, and that's that. But for people who want to protect laser diodes that are significantly more expensive, or who absolutely can not tolerate a failure, LASORB is an absolute bargain!

Best regards,

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Last edited by Pangolin; 12-13-2010 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:46 AM #25
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
Hehe. Now I see why so many people outside this forum have told me that this forum is non-credible...

Even if a laser diode is only $15, the question is, what is the cost of an overall system failure?

Some of our clients use low-cost laser diodes in machines that themselves cost tens of thousands of dollars! Others use them in medical devices. Still others use them on the Mars Explorer. The diode itself may be inexpensive, but an overall system failure could be literally fatal!

Up until now, I believed this forum was vaguely similar to Photon Lexicon, but now I see it is not... Many folks on Photon Lexicon are using our LASORB to protect their laser diodes and find significant value in it.

In any event, for hobbyists on this forum, it might not be all that important. If you folks don't see the value, then you don't see the value, and that's that. But for people who want to protect laser diodes that are significantly more expensive, or who absolutely can not tolerate a failure, LASORB is an absolute bargain!

Best regards,

William Benner


Interesting...

What were people doing with their expensive laser diodes BEFORE your lasorb's were "invented" ?

By the way you might want to use the "companies" forum to introduce Lasorb, instead of discrediting the community with insults.

Last edited by SpyderFire; 12-13-2010 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:56 AM #26
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Trolololol!
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:12 PM #27
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Wink Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
Hehe. Now I see why so many people outside this forum have told me that this forum is non-credible...
Probably, for hide their own ignorance about basical electronic laws (ignorance meant as "no-knowledge, not as offense)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
Up until now, I believed this forum was vaguely similar to Photon Lexicon, but now I see it is not... Many folks on Photon Lexicon are using our LASORB to protect their laser diodes and find significant value in it.
I don't know about PL peoples, and don't want to start a war ..... and, yes, luckily, we're not the same as PL (differences make the world more interesting, and gives more sources for learning ) ..... i only can say you that i'm using the 1Kohm resistor for cheap diodes, and the RCD parallel on expensive diodes, soldered closer to the LDs, from a little bit of time (something more than 15 years ), and i had exactly zero diodes lost for static, ESD or in-circuit spikes, til now, so i can say that this system is good enough (and please note that i'm NOT saying that "lasorbs" are not good, i'm simply saying that my system works good too)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
In any event, for hobbyists on this forum, it might not be all that important. If you folks don't see the value, then you don't see the value, and that's that. But for people who want to protect laser diodes that are significantly more expensive, or who absolutely can not tolerate a failure, LASORB is an absolute bargain!
Then I suppose that you can grant, with this statement, that in case of failure of any high cost apparate or laser diode that is using your lasorbs, you agree to refund any personal, economical and material fees due to that failure, right ?

Please, never speak about "absolutes", ESPECIALLY in electronic ..... i'm in this field from 1974 as hobbyst, and from 1982 as professional, and can grant you that "absolute safety" does not exist, at all.

And again, mine is not a trial to bash your product ..... only, please, be honest enough to recognize that YOUR system is NOT the only working system, for do something
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Old 12-13-2010, 08:01 PM #28
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

I was planning on using these:

SP0502BAHTG Littelfuse ESD Suppressors

6.8V clamp and specifically designed to meet "IEC transient immunity standards IEC 61000-4-2 for Electrostatic Discharge Requirements"

Seems like plenty of ESD protection for $0.66
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:29 PM #29
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpyderFire View Post
What were people doing with their expensive laser diodes BEFORE your lasorb's were "invented" ?
You raise a good question.

I would use the analogy of the automobile, and what people would do to get around before the automobile was invented. Before the automobile was invented, people still got around. Some rode on the backs of horses, some rode bicycles, some walked. People surely got around. The automobile just made it easier to get around, and really revolutionized ground-based transportation.

People *attempted to* protect their laser diodes using all of the ways mentioned on the LASORB web site. Capacitors, resistors, zener diodes and TVS, strapping, etc. People tried these things, and yet diodes still died. These things won't work for the scientific reasons stated on the LASORB web site.

We've solved the reliability for a lot of companies -- and people, all around the world.

Best regards,

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Old 12-13-2010, 09:32 PM #30
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
You raise a good question.

I would use the analogy of the automobile, and what people would do to get around before the automobile was invented. Before the automobile was invented, people still got around. Some rode on the backs of horses, some rode bicycles, some walked. People surely got around. The automobile just made it easier to get around, and really revolutionized ground-based transportation.

People *attempted to* protect their laser diodes using all of the ways mentioned on the LASORB web site. Capacitors, resistors, zener diodes and TVS, strapping, etc. People tried these things, and yet diodes still died. These things won't work for the scientific reasons stated on the LASORB web site.

We've solved the reliability for a lot of companies -- and people, all around the world.

Best regards,

William Benner
I don't think that argumenting that much will help your $8 protections sell easily: if you want it to get selled give some free to some members (to test/review) and give LPF a discount.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:45 PM #31
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

I think the LASORB is OK and works but the laser hobbyist market might not be the best place for it.

#1) An $8 device is a significant price compared to most enthusist diodes.
#2) Most hobbyists working with expensive diodes have good ESD practices and are unlikely to subject thier diode to unecessary ESD.
#3) Most laser enthusists tolerate any failures with only minor inconvenience.

In reality, the average hobbyist doesn't need the gold standard of protection. A cap/zener/TVS device that offers some protection is usually good enough. This may not be true for a business or comemrcial product.
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:52 PM #32
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Default Re: Inexpensive ESD (static) protection.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leodahsan View Post
I don't think that argumenting that much will help your $8 protections sell easily: if you want it to get selled give some free to some members (to test/review) and give LPF a discount.
First, I am not necessarily looking for new customers, or trying to sell these to people on this forum. There are companies all around the world who have used LASORB successfully, where everything else they have tried has failed. As I wrote before, medical, military, aerospace, university, etc. Lots of uses from some of the best-known companies in the world. These companies were having big problems and were looking for a solution. They try our LASORB and found that it works for them, and then they purchase literally thousands of these per month!

So a few more sales here and there to hobbyists will not help our bottom line any. I only saw a thread here about ESD and figured I would discuss what we have found, and the solution we provide. If nobody here is interested, then so be it. No problem ;-)

Quote:
Originally Posted by jib77 View Post
I was planning on using these:

SP0502BAHTG Littelfuse ESD Suppressors

6.8V clamp and specifically designed to meet "IEC transient immunity standards IEC 61000-4-2 for Electrostatic Discharge Requirements"

Seems like plenty of ESD protection for $0.66
Sure. Plenty of protection for a normal semiconductor device. But a laser diode is not a normal semiconductor device! They are bandgap devices whose optical response times are faster than that of ESD itself!

To understand the physics is to understand why only LASORB can protect a laser diode from ESD and power surges. If this didn't work, it wouldn't have caught the eye of more than 20 publications, including Laser Focus World and Photonics Spectra.

If anyone has used other devices or techniques and not blown laser diodes, it is only because they have gotten lucky up until now ;-)

Anyway, the people who know they need LASORB are the people who are having problems with ESD, or (more often) are having problems they don't really understand. LASORB is a great solution, and it has solved the headaches of many people and companies. If anyone here is interested, you know how to get in touch with us...


Best regards,

William Benner
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