Laser Pointers



Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums!

Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Green Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Blue Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Red Lasers
Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Yellow Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Purple Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Orange Lasers
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes



Go Back   Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers > Lasers > Tutorials, Help & Repairs

Sci-Fi-Lasers
Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-06-2010, 03:17 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Hyrule571's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 24
Rep Power: 0
Hyrule571 is an unknown quantity at this point
Exclamation Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

Just wondering... i want something better than this 5mW laser, i know i can hack it make it like 100mw but i dont care much i like it how it is, how can i make a 6mW+ laser LEGAL??????
__________________
There are 10 types of people in this world; those who understand binary, and those who do not.
405nm Ebay $8.98 Laser Pointer 5mW
Hyrule571 is offline   Reply With Quote


lpp

Green Laser Companies

Blue Laser Companies

Red Laser Companies


Old 10-06-2010, 03:20 AM   #2
Class 3R Laser
 
00Giorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,931
Rep Power: 90
00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

Depends on where you are!

Other wise your fine, some of the members have laser up to 1600mw!
__________________
The older I get the better I was!
Age is mind over matter, if you don't mind it really doesn't matter!
Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!



Want help stop gun legislation
http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html
00Giorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 03:20 AM   #3
Class 3R Laser
 
Toke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Copenhagen
Posts: 1,111
Rep Power: 48
Toke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond reputeToke has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrule571 View Post
Just wondering... i want something better than this 5mW laser, i know i can hack it make it like 100mw but i dont care much i like it how it is, how can i make a 6mW+ laser LEGAL??????
(My bolding)

You have a point on the clueless part.
__________________
100mW Odicforce kit.
App. 300mw MiniMag
App 120mW labby
Fan cooled 400mA 12X 405nm flashlight

532nm 150mW Labby.
532nm 50mW in flashlight

1.2W 445nm Yobresal
Basic laser building guide.
Toke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 06:49 AM   #4
Class 3R Laser
 
aryntha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 2,016
Rep Power: 190
aryntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

Hyrule571,

To expand on what Toke's saying you probably can't drive that laser diode above 5mW. However, 100mW lasers are cheap now, and red 100mW is probably a good starter laser.

Take a look at o-like.com , or some of the building tutorials here.

Legal? Well, in the USA, the import and sales of all lasers are regulated, and the import and sales of lasers >5mW are restricted.

It's also illegal to market a laser >5mW as a 'pointer' or pointing device.

With the proper interlocks and safety features, and the proper FDA/CDRH accession numbers, >5mW lasers are legal to import and own.

However, many of the lasers you will see for cheap, and are 'portable' (and will function as overpowered 'pointers') will not have those interlocks. So strictly speaking, they are not legal to import into the US (unless they are a component, to become an OEM part of another system that IS compliant.)

That said, it goes a little bit like this:

1) They'll likely make it to your door.
2) The "laser police" won't be knocking at said door unless you do something stupid with said laser which was delivered to said door.

So, hopefully you get the gist of it.
__________________

3392nm:REO LHIP HeNe 2mW ∙ 980nm:OLIKE 155mW

808nm:OLIKE 200mW ∙ JETL PLC 600mW(682pk)
780nm:OLIKE 120mW
685nm:18650 47mW
671nm:PGL3M 281mW DPSS ∙ PGL3C 278mW
655nm:LOC 254mW ∙ OLIKE 221mW ∙ Yob 320mW
638nm:Sanyo 40mW ∙ HL63133 200mW ∙ PGL3C 463mWpk ∙ ML520 700mW
633nm:JDS1145 HeNe 28mW ∙ JDS1145 HeNe 26mW
612nm:MG 05LOR151 HeNe 3mW ∙ REO LSTP 3mW
609nm:REO LHOR 1mW
604nm:REO LSTP 2mW
594nm:Rigel 3mW ∙ LG PGL3C 15mWpk ∙ Lasos 7512 3mW ∙ CNI MGL3 58mWpk
589nm:CNI PGL3C 106mW ∙ CNI PGL3C 85mW
561nm:CNI PGL3C 30mW(41pk)
556nm:CNI PGL3C 20mW(22pk)
544nm:JDS1675P HeNe 2mW ∙ REO LHGR 2mW ∙ Lasos 7786 2mW
532nm:PGL3C 150mW(180pk) ∙ PGL3C 578mWpk ∙ PLC 440mWpk
515nm:JDS 221420GL ArI 30mW
510nm:52mW DG#2 ∙ 50mW 26650 DG
488nm:Nlx DPSS 7mW ∙ JDS 2214 ArI 40mW ∙ JDS FCD488 DPSS 25mW
ML:MG 65A106025 ArI ML 115mW
476/480nm:Nichia Diode 28mW
473nm:PGL3A 45mW(80pk) ∙ PGL3C 110mWpk ∙ PGL3C 95mWpk ∙ RPLB-25 60mWpk
465nm:DTR NDB7676 2.03w
458nm:JDS 2214VL ArI 8mW ∙ JDS 2214VL ArI 12mW ∙ RHD Diode 1.7W
452nm:Osram SM 47mW
445nm:Yob 1410mW ∙ Polaris 156mW ∙ PGL3C 1200mW ∙ DTR-EHG 32650 2136mW
405nm:Yob 630mW ∙ Qfox 750mW ∙ JETL PLC 780mW
aryntha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 08:25 AM   #5
Class 2 Laser
 
hugo999999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 443
Rep Power: 8
hugo999999 has a spectacular aura abouthugo999999 has a spectacular aura abouthugo999999 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

Quote:
Originally Posted by 00Giorge View Post
Depends on where you are!

Other wise your fine, some of the members have laser up to 1600mw!
lol im pretty sure a lot of members have lasers WAY higher then 1.6W a lot of them have CO2 lasers in the multi-watt range
__________________
<300mw red 660nm labby
<5mw quad red

<10mw green dx
<100mw 405nm phr803t
<200mw GGW-H20L
4 mirror RG spirograph
<5mw and <150mw 780nm
>900mw 445nm labby
hugo999999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 10:49 AM   #6
Class 2 Laser
 
John7788's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: CN
Posts: 348
Rep Power: 17
John7788 has much to be proud ofJohn7788 has much to be proud ofJohn7788 has much to be proud ofJohn7788 has much to be proud ofJohn7788 has much to be proud ofJohn7788 has much to be proud ofJohn7788 has much to be proud ofJohn7788 has much to be proud ofJohn7788 has much to be proud of
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

Do you think there are any difference between 5mw and 6mw? If 5mw is enough for you, just get one, if not, you can choose 20mw,30mw,or larger.In my opinion, It is just like a question "Which do you think I should get for my bathroom, 60w bulb or 61w bulb "
__________________
500mw Green Laser Pointer with Safety Lock(1*18650 Battery $182.99 now


THREAD :
the real output of priceangels lasers

the owner of Priceangels.com, does not come here to spam but to introduce ourselves and provide excellent customer service. We will never give you a rubbish post or thread. All the answers we write are sincere, impartial and reliable just as our website
John7788 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 10:27 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Hyrule571's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 24
Rep Power: 0
Hyrule571 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

Rofl, i didnt mean i was going to get a 6mW laser thinking i just upgraded into a sick laser or something. I said 6mW+ because anything above 5mW is, i think, illegal. Yet i dont really understand how it works, aryntha said...

"Legal? Well, in the USA, the import and sales of all lasers are regulated, and the import and sales of lasers >5mW are restricted.

It's also illegal to market a laser >5mW as a 'pointer' or pointing device.

With the proper interlocks and safety features, and the proper FDA/CDRH accession numbers, >5mW lasers are legal to import and own.

However, many of the lasers you will see for cheap, and are 'portable' (and will function as overpowered 'pointers') will not have those interlocks. So strictly speaking, they are not legal to import into the US (unless they are a component, to become an OEM part of another system that IS compliant.)

That said, it goes a little bit like this:

1) They'll likely make it to your door.
2) The "laser police" won't be knocking at said door unless you do something stupid with said laser which was delivered to said door."

Lasers cant be sold over 5mW yet the Arctic is a whole watt and its sold and obvious???

"Legal? Well, in the USA, the import and sales of all lasers are regulated, and the import and sales of lasers >5mW are restricted."

So anyways i can just go buy a 1W WL Arctic Spyder laser and keep it legally? Would it be ok to carry it around and show it off(being outside, not inside, i know about powerful lasers especially something 1W+, it can reflect from something and hit back into someones eye and blind them due to my stupidity, if inside, VERY, VERY, VVEERRYY CAUTIOUS)? N about that 100mW "hack" i exaggerated, some say it can push to 50-ish mW... idk. HELP! >.<!!!!
__________________
There are 10 types of people in this world; those who understand binary, and those who do not.
405nm Ebay $8.98 Laser Pointer 5mW

Last edited by Hyrule571; 10-06-2010 at 10:30 PM. Reason: Changed something so it doesnt sound confusing..
Hyrule571 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-06-2010, 10:28 PM   #8
Junior Member
 
Hyrule571's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 24
Rep Power: 0
Hyrule571 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

I am in Ohio, USA. I need to add that, and more, on my bio... lolz.
__________________
There are 10 types of people in this world; those who understand binary, and those who do not.
405nm Ebay $8.98 Laser Pointer 5mW
Hyrule571 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 02:21 AM   #9
Class 3R Laser
 
00Giorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,931
Rep Power: 90
00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

Quote:
Originally Posted by hugo999999 View Post
lol im pretty sure a lot of members have lasers WAY higher then 1.6W a lot of them have CO2 lasers in the multi-watt range
HA HA! I was talking about hand held not a CO2!
__________________
The older I get the better I was!
Age is mind over matter, if you don't mind it really doesn't matter!
Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!



Want help stop gun legislation
http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html
00Giorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 07:25 AM   #10
Class 2 Laser
 
hugo999999's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Australia
Posts: 443
Rep Power: 8
hugo999999 has a spectacular aura abouthugo999999 has a spectacular aura abouthugo999999 has a spectacular aura about
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

hemlock mike has a handheld Co2 (it could be somebody else though cant remember).

i think it was called the death phaser or something and ran on LiPo's
__________________
<300mw red 660nm labby
<5mw quad red

<10mw green dx
<100mw 405nm phr803t
<200mw GGW-H20L
4 mirror RG spirograph
<5mw and <150mw 780nm
>900mw 445nm labby
hugo999999 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 09:49 AM   #11
Class 3R Laser
 
00Giorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,931
Rep Power: 90
00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

I have never seen a hand held CO2. The few that I have seen are usually liquid cooled, except for some new industrial ones that are air cooled.
__________________
The older I get the better I was!
Age is mind over matter, if you don't mind it really doesn't matter!
Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!



Want help stop gun legislation
http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html
00Giorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 10:26 AM   #12
Class 3R Laser
 
aryntha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Evergreen, CO
Posts: 2,016
Rep Power: 190
aryntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond reputearyntha has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrule571 View Post
So anyways i can just go buy a 1W WL Arctic Spyder laser and keep it legally?
I believe the laws refer to import and commerce, not posession. And 'displays'. See below.

(Steve/LSRFAQ would know more. A lot more.)

Quote:
Would it be ok to carry it around and show it off
I wouldn't go out of my way to draw attention to it. People have strange reactions to lasers, and you never know when local law enforcement or someone trying to be Captain America will make a mountain out of a molehill...

That said, if you are turning on a > Class IIIa laser in public, you need an FDA variance, legally.

See, you're asking about the laws - and this is what they are.

Technically, if I want to invite over my brother and my uncle and show off my lasers in my backyard, I need a variance.

Have I showed them my lasers in my back yard? Yes.

Did I get a variance? No.

Nobody here is going to tell you to break a law.

But, common sense prevails, hopefully - and usually, when there's no harm, there's no foul, either.

Just don't be an idiot about it and you'll be fine.

(Hint, 'being an idiot about it' is when you have to ask yourself, "hmm. Is what I'm doing with this laser kinda stupid?" -- if you ever find yourself asking yourself that question, you've answered your own question.)

Get yourself a 100mW red or green already, some goggles, and come be one of us.
__________________

3392nm:REO LHIP HeNe 2mW ∙ 980nm:OLIKE 155mW

808nm:OLIKE 200mW ∙ JETL PLC 600mW(682pk)
780nm:OLIKE 120mW
685nm:18650 47mW
671nm:PGL3M 281mW DPSS ∙ PGL3C 278mW
655nm:LOC 254mW ∙ OLIKE 221mW ∙ Yob 320mW
638nm:Sanyo 40mW ∙ HL63133 200mW ∙ PGL3C 463mWpk ∙ ML520 700mW
633nm:JDS1145 HeNe 28mW ∙ JDS1145 HeNe 26mW
612nm:MG 05LOR151 HeNe 3mW ∙ REO LSTP 3mW
609nm:REO LHOR 1mW
604nm:REO LSTP 2mW
594nm:Rigel 3mW ∙ LG PGL3C 15mWpk ∙ Lasos 7512 3mW ∙ CNI MGL3 58mWpk
589nm:CNI PGL3C 106mW ∙ CNI PGL3C 85mW
561nm:CNI PGL3C 30mW(41pk)
556nm:CNI PGL3C 20mW(22pk)
544nm:JDS1675P HeNe 2mW ∙ REO LHGR 2mW ∙ Lasos 7786 2mW
532nm:PGL3C 150mW(180pk) ∙ PGL3C 578mWpk ∙ PLC 440mWpk
515nm:JDS 221420GL ArI 30mW
510nm:52mW DG#2 ∙ 50mW 26650 DG
488nm:Nlx DPSS 7mW ∙ JDS 2214 ArI 40mW ∙ JDS FCD488 DPSS 25mW
ML:MG 65A106025 ArI ML 115mW
476/480nm:Nichia Diode 28mW
473nm:PGL3A 45mW(80pk) ∙ PGL3C 110mWpk ∙ PGL3C 95mWpk ∙ RPLB-25 60mWpk
465nm:DTR NDB7676 2.03w
458nm:JDS 2214VL ArI 8mW ∙ JDS 2214VL ArI 12mW ∙ RHD Diode 1.7W
452nm:Osram SM 47mW
445nm:Yob 1410mW ∙ Polaris 156mW ∙ PGL3C 1200mW ∙ DTR-EHG 32650 2136mW
405nm:Yob 630mW ∙ Qfox 750mW ∙ JETL PLC 780mW
aryntha is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 08:50 PM   #13
Junior Member
 
Hyrule571's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Ohio, USA
Posts: 24
Rep Power: 0
Hyrule571 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

**"Technically, if I want to invite over my brother and my uncle and show off my lasers in my backyard, I need a variance.

Have I showed them my lasers in my back yard? Yes.

Did I get a variance? No.

Nobody here is going to tell you to break a law."**

So, a variance is... ??? and variance with FDA? how do i get a variance with the FDA? (bro im so clueless rofl, just explain what a variance is and how i get one with the FDA)

So basically i can go get one and just be careful with it and not dumb with it and everything will be kool, right?
__________________
There are 10 types of people in this world; those who understand binary, and those who do not.
405nm Ebay $8.98 Laser Pointer 5mW
Hyrule571 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-07-2010, 09:18 PM   #14
Class 3R Laser
 
00Giorge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Utah
Posts: 1,931
Rep Power: 90
00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute00Giorge has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Do you need a license to have a 6mw+ laser? Im so clueless =[

Quote:
Originally Posted by aryntha View Post
I believe the laws refer to import and commerce, not posession. And 'displays'. See below.

(Steve/LSRFAQ would know more. A lot more.)



I wouldn't go out of my way to draw attention to it. People have strange reactions to lasers, and you never know when local law enforcement or someone trying to be Captain America will make a mountain out of a molehill...

That said, if you are turning on a > Class IIIa laser in public, you need an FDA variance, legally.

See, you're asking about the laws - and this is what they are.

Technically, if I want to invite over my brother and my uncle and show off my lasers in my backyard, I need a variance.

Have I showed them my lasers in my back yard? Yes.

Did I get a variance? No.

Nobody here is going to tell you to break a law.

But, common sense prevails, hopefully - and usually, when there's no harm, there's no foul, either.

Just don't be an idiot about it and you'll be fine.

(Hint, 'being an idiot about it' is when you have to ask yourself, "hmm. Is what I'm doing with this laser kinda stupid?" -- if you ever find yourself asking yourself that question, you've answered your own question.)

Get yourself a 100mW red or green already, some goggles, and come be one of us.
Did you mean FAA variance!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyrule571 View Post
**"Technically, if I want to invite over my brother and my uncle and show off my lasers in my backyard, I need a variance.

Have I showed them my lasers in my back yard? Yes.

Did I get a variance? No.

Nobody here is going to tell you to break a law."**

So, a variance is... ??? and variance with FDA? how do i get a variance with the FDA? (bro im so clueless rofl, just explain what a variance is and how i get one with the FDA)

So basically i can go get one and just be careful with it and not dumb with it and everything will be kool, right?
As long as you don't try to light up any aircraft, people, animals or vehicles you will be just fine! If you are doing a laser show or pointing your laser up then you need an FAA variance. (it keeps aircraft out of the area)

SEE THIS THREAD http://laserpointerforums.com/f53/actual-laser-laws-country-53770.html
__________________
The older I get the better I was!
Age is mind over matter, if you don't mind it really doesn't matter!
Growing old is inevitable, growing up is optional!



Want help stop gun legislation
http://www.ruger.com/micros/advocacy/takeAction.html

Last edited by 00Giorge; 10-07-2010 at 09:29 PM.
00Giorge is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
legal license


Database of Laser Pointer Companies




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On









Loading


laser pointer forums top

Sky






Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Green Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Blue Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Red Lasers
Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Yellow Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Purple Lasers Top 50 Laser Pointer Companies - Orange Lasers
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes









































All times are GMT. The time now is 06:04 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use
Copyright (C) 2014 Laser Pointer Forums, LLC