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Old 05-15-2012, 05:14 AM #17
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

Battery's need to quit tryin to protect us from ourselves


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Old 05-15-2012, 05:15 AM #18
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

Thanks for the input RHD! I was curious about this one. Im glad my guess was wrong because changing the batteries is a MUCH easier solution LOL.
I'm with you on the IMRs. I use them for all my high powered builds.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:38 PM #19
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

Yeah, I think people overestimate the ultra/trust/whatever-fire batteries. They print nice sounding numbers on the side but you have NO IDEA what is actually in that battery.

With the good batteries like AW IMR that are safe chemistry and tested design, you don't have to worry about the battery being the cause of any problems.

I know SW hates having to spend the extra $ on good batteries, but really when you think about it, you wouldn't put regular gas in a 638hp supercharged ZR1 Corvette would you?

A ~2.5W portable laser is that Corvette. It won't perform without the right "fuel."

The nice thing, is unlike the gas which is burnt up, the high quality battery can be reused over and over again making it a good investment.

One of the first things I did with this hobby was order a bunch of AW IMR cells and a GOOD XTAR charger. You need good batteries for good lasers.

One other "aside" note, anytime you can - use 18350's instead of 16340's. They are 1mm longer and 2mm wider and will often fit in a host that will take 16340's. You get a nice mAh increase with the AW IMR's at almost no real price increase.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:42 PM #20
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

I don't think my 18650's were cheap when they cost 15 euro a piece. (panasonic cells) (i have 6 of them)

And like i said, it used to work with the same batteries i use all the time.

Only time will tell.

I hope it's as easy as that..
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:53 PM #21
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

I've never actually heard of Eden cells, but it sounds legit. It looks like they basically add a protection circuit to good quality Panasonic cells. There's nothing wrong with that (if that's what they're doing), and the expensive price tag may very well be justified.

That said, the TrustFire and Soshine cells (especially the TrustFires) are junk. Really bad. But here, I don't think it's the quality of the cells that is an issue, I think it's simply the protection.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:30 PM #22
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

I have a 25500 a 16340, an 18650 all trustfire/ultrafire sitting beside me that aren't even batteries. They are just something wrapped up in a battery wrapper.

Pieces of shit.. AW IMR all the way.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:51 PM #23
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

It is definitely a power issue. It looks like it may be trying to pull too much current from the batteries. Or they are sagging below the voltage needed to stay in regulation under load.


Also this could be caused by a bottleneck in the host if some part is not able to carry the current and is heating up increasing the resistance at the bottleneck reducing the current.

The video in the fist post would probably have been better without a lens at all. I would bet at first it has all the lines lit up then they start to go out one by one till you are just left with the main center line lasing which is the diode getting around 50-200mA.

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Old 05-15-2012, 08:42 PM #24
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smeerworst View Post
I don't think my 18650's were cheap when they cost 15 euro a piece. (panasonic cells) (i have 6 of them)

And like i said, it used to work with the same batteries i use all the time.

Only time will tell.

I hope it's as easy as that..
I didn't mean to assume. Your batteries do sound fine, but as RHD says - if the protection circuit is kicking in then it is limiting the power. Hopefully it will be as simple as that.

Definitely an interesting thread, sorry it is at your expense!
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:54 PM #25
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

Quote:
Originally Posted by tsteele93 View Post
I didn't mean to assume. Your batteries do sound fine, but as RHD says - if the protection circuit is kicking in then it is limiting the power. Hopefully it will be as simple as that.

Definitely an interesting thread, sorry it is at your expense!
Yeah, never thought about it myself really.

If that's the problem, im dumping all my 18650's i have and order me more AW IMR's

I really hope i can use it again, and that it's just that.
The build quality is awesome, and the heatsink is massive.

It's a laser with some history allready ^^
It has a nice scar on it from customs... makes it even more badass

Well the batteries left texas, and are on it's way.
Ordered some protected AW's aswell and some cr123A's.
Alway's wanted AW's anyway's.. but getting them from europe is a no no.

I would like to thank everyone on his/her's input on this matter.
It really drove me crazy to see a laser comming back from repair doing what it does, couse in the back of my head i was sure i used the same batteries when it did work.

I also ordered a extra pair of the red sanyo 18650's (just to be sure)
Now i have more batteries then lasers
I need to correct this soon.

Thanks all, and will let you know how it goes.

sm.
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:23 PM #26
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

Don't dump them, those should be great batteries for lower wattage builds. It sounds like RHD is just saying at that current the protection is kicking in...

I have some similar batteries and they work great in less demanding builds.
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532nm O-like 50 mW pen from Cajun Lasers - small dot, tight beam!
532nm O-like Crown, rated @ 400mW, metered @ ~450mW with AW battery!
532nm O-like Crown rated @ 500mW, not yet tested
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532nm RPL-375 @ 427mW

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Old 05-16-2012, 12:02 AM #27
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

Well, don't do anything drastic like dumping your cells yet. I could be wrong in my theory.

I mean, it's possible that there just IS a problem with this build. Nobody is perfect, or there could be a defect in something like the tailcap, a contact point etc.

I'm pretty sure that's not the case, for a couple reasons. The host has been used by other builders, and from all obvious signs it seems like a quality host. The driver is a driver I designed myself - which is not to say that it should be flawless, but I certainly have used the design enough to know that it's reliably solid. It's essentially a Jib/Mohgasm-like driver with some enhancements to make it more substantial / durable / reliable. For example, it has wider traces, and a TO263 instead of TO252 IC. That's a larger IC that can withstand unheatsinked operation for a surprising amount of time. Obviously it's heatsinked in this build, but I raise this point to illustrate that even if the build took a lot of damage (say it was dropped) and the IC broke loose of its heatsinking, I'd still expect the driver to hang in there without hitting thermal protection for at least a minute.

So anyway, long story short, I say that I'm "confident" in the battery issue, because I am. I have a lot of reason to think that the issue here is power related, not build related. But I'm "confident" not "conclusive". It could be something else, including an error on my part, or a problem with a component/the diode/the host. I won't rule anything out until we can do so logically/definitively.
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- Info release from Laserglow - Default Canadian restrictions on portable lasers (link)
- The Necessity of Safety Goggles (link)

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Old 05-19-2012, 12:30 PM #28
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

Well recieved m batteries today.

AW IMR 2000mah
AW icr 3100mah

Popped them in quick with same results.

So i'm going to charge them once i get back from my sisters birthday party ^^

Cheers sm
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Lazeerer custom polished L6 porcupine build 3.8mm 405nm 1W
Dragonlaser Spartan 405nm 300mW Polished
SKYlasers HL405 405nm 550mW
2×WLasers Sonar Elite Pro 3×Sonar white
2×Dragonlaser Spartan 447nm 1.1W with Beam Expander
TrustFire Cree Z5 2W+ 445nm Custom build
Blord build Big Boy 3W 445nm
Wicked Lasers S3 Arctic 445nm 2W 1.25 etc
Ultrafire C3 host Osram 450nm 180mW single mode
Optotronics RPL-B 473nm peak@112mW viasho upgraded
3XWLasers S3 473nm portable 112mW LE 1×S2
473nm >300 Lab laser
1.4W 520nm - The Hulk - MS-SSW-II Custom Direct Green DTR
SKYlasers PL520 520nm 80mW
Laserglow Hercules-650 532nm 850mW 777mW avg
Optotronics 450 RPL-G 532nm >570mW peak
Wicked Lasers Krypton 1W 532nm avg 997mW pk 1268mW
Jetlasers PL-E Pro >800mW
Laserglow Rigel HV PRO-50 589nm 95.1mW
CNI PGL III C >80mW 589nm
LaserGlow Rigel 6 593.5nm 8mW
Wicked Lasers Spyder II RX (Limited Edition, >300mW) 600mW peak
RHD build SH-032 host 635nm 500mW
RHD build Red Bulldog 638nm 1W+
Dragonlaser Spartan 640nm 100mW
SKYlasers PL650 650nm 1W
RGB and RGY Scanner 1.5W
Flashlights: HID Polarion PH-40, LED Olight SR-90
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:37 PM #29
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

RHD asked me to post this for him...

Quote:
Originally Posted by RHD
Hey guys,

It's RHD. I'm asking Smeerworst to post this for me, since I can't load the forum directly right now. I'm roaming with a Canadian cell in the US until Sunday, and US data on the Canadian cell plan is $0.01 per Kb, which is $10 per Mb. Meaning at least $15 to post one forum reply (load thread + load posted page). I tried to load this thread this morning and saw my traffic widget jump over a Mb, so I'm worried about that as it stands.

Anyway, charge the AW IMRs first, and try them. If those don't remove the issue, then I was wrong about my theory of the issue.

If that turns out to be the case, let me refund your purchase, and also cover the cost of having this laser shipped back to me. That way, you're not shouldering the cost of us trying to diagnose this any further.

But I'll still do some sort of open diagnosis of the laser once I get it back, in this thread. If for no other reason than I think this has peaked a few membes' curiosities. There were a few other theories about what might be happening, and I'm sure those members would love to know if they were actually correct! So maybe I'd do some sort of on-camera tear-down, testing, etc.

Anyway, I won't be able to post in the thread directly until Sunday, but I can process a refund of the laser + shipping almost any time. Paypal has a mobile app on my phone that doesn't take a lot of bandwidth to use.

I'd also offer you a 25% reduction on a future purchase - which of course you don't have to use, but it's yours if you decide to use it - to compensate you for your hassle here with this laser.

So - if those IMRs don't resolve the issue, we'll get ya refunded, and then we'll get the issue figured out on my end.

Thanks for posting this for me. I'll re-join the regular fold on Sunday

Cheers
--
I'm charging my batteries right now
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Too much to list.
Lazeerer custom polished L6 porcupine build 3.8mm 405nm 1W
Dragonlaser Spartan 405nm 300mW Polished
SKYlasers HL405 405nm 550mW
2×WLasers Sonar Elite Pro 3×Sonar white
2×Dragonlaser Spartan 447nm 1.1W with Beam Expander
TrustFire Cree Z5 2W+ 445nm Custom build
Blord build Big Boy 3W 445nm
Wicked Lasers S3 Arctic 445nm 2W 1.25 etc
Ultrafire C3 host Osram 450nm 180mW single mode
Optotronics RPL-B 473nm peak@112mW viasho upgraded
3XWLasers S3 473nm portable 112mW LE 1×S2
473nm >300 Lab laser
1.4W 520nm - The Hulk - MS-SSW-II Custom Direct Green DTR
SKYlasers PL520 520nm 80mW
Laserglow Hercules-650 532nm 850mW 777mW avg
Optotronics 450 RPL-G 532nm >570mW peak
Wicked Lasers Krypton 1W 532nm avg 997mW pk 1268mW
Jetlasers PL-E Pro >800mW
Laserglow Rigel HV PRO-50 589nm 95.1mW
CNI PGL III C >80mW 589nm
LaserGlow Rigel 6 593.5nm 8mW
Wicked Lasers Spyder II RX (Limited Edition, >300mW) 600mW peak
RHD build SH-032 host 635nm 500mW
RHD build Red Bulldog 638nm 1W+
Dragonlaser Spartan 640nm 100mW
SKYlasers PL650 650nm 1W
RGB and RGY Scanner 1.5W
Flashlights: HID Polarion PH-40, LED Olight SR-90
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Old 05-19-2012, 06:50 PM #30
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

RHD - all class as expected. Compare that to any commercial laser manufacturer!

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445nm Stainless Steel Monster with H140 diode @1.62A - 2.15W!
450nm rhd single mode @ 190mW

532nm O-like 50 mW pen from Cajun Lasers - small dot, tight beam!
532nm O-like Crown, rated @ 400mW, metered @ ~450mW with AW battery!
532nm O-like Crown rated @ 500mW, not yet tested
532nm RPL-165 @ 204mW
532nm RPL-375 @ 427mW

635nm rhd Lipstick Tube @ ~485+ mW
638nm Fat Boy @ 825mW - custom build

650nm Bolly BL-8006 @ 319mW

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Old 05-19-2012, 06:53 PM #31
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

That is a good gesture from RHD. An excellent seller !
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405nm 400mW S06J C6
445nm 3W Big Boy, 2.8W Dominator, 2.4W Steel Laser
450nm 240mW PL450 C6
473nm 100mW PGL-III-C-473
520nm 55mW Skylaser PL520
532nm 821mW Skylaser PL532, 133mW Jetlasers Ti-B
589nm 100mW PGL-III-C-589
635nm 70mW Sanyo SenTorch
638nm 175mW Ehgemus, 1W Rook
660nm 1216mW Skylaser PL660, 263mW LPC826 C6
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780nm 150mW Dilda
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I have copper 501B and Dominator lasers for sale !
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Old 05-19-2012, 07:46 PM #32
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Default Re: 445nm laser problem..

Well the IMR's were done charging, and i still have the same problem.

So no luck there..

Cheers, sm.
__________________
Too much to list.
Lazeerer custom polished L6 porcupine build 3.8mm 405nm 1W
Dragonlaser Spartan 405nm 300mW Polished
SKYlasers HL405 405nm 550mW
2×WLasers Sonar Elite Pro 3×Sonar white
2×Dragonlaser Spartan 447nm 1.1W with Beam Expander
TrustFire Cree Z5 2W+ 445nm Custom build
Blord build Big Boy 3W 445nm
Wicked Lasers S3 Arctic 445nm 2W 1.25 etc
Ultrafire C3 host Osram 450nm 180mW single mode
Optotronics RPL-B 473nm peak@112mW viasho upgraded
3XWLasers S3 473nm portable 112mW LE 1×S2
473nm >300 Lab laser
1.4W 520nm - The Hulk - MS-SSW-II Custom Direct Green DTR
SKYlasers PL520 520nm 80mW
Laserglow Hercules-650 532nm 850mW 777mW avg
Optotronics 450 RPL-G 532nm >570mW peak
Wicked Lasers Krypton 1W 532nm avg 997mW pk 1268mW
Jetlasers PL-E Pro >800mW
Laserglow Rigel HV PRO-50 589nm 95.1mW
CNI PGL III C >80mW 589nm
LaserGlow Rigel 6 593.5nm 8mW
Wicked Lasers Spyder II RX (Limited Edition, >300mW) 600mW peak
RHD build SH-032 host 635nm 500mW
RHD build Red Bulldog 638nm 1W+
Dragonlaser Spartan 640nm 100mW
SKYlasers PL650 650nm 1W
RGB and RGY Scanner 1.5W
Flashlights: HID Polarion PH-40, LED Olight SR-90
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