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Old 01-02-2016, 07:49 PM #49
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

I have 3 NUBM01T ready to test here

Is "zoof angle" = brewster angle? if so, angle is wavelenght dependant....
Which is the magnification with your 'zoof angle'? at +20% losses surely severe angle...

Anyway...I' pretty sure when prism pair is set at 2x magnification (the setup I described) we get faaaaar less losses then 20%...go to test tonight to get some numbers...
so testing losses with...NICHIA green 1w 3-elem + 2x prism pair



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Old 01-02-2016, 07:56 PM #50
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logsquared View Post
Here is a design I did a few years ago. Just another way to arrange things.

[IMG][/IMG]
Logs you're a genius

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Old 01-02-2016, 08:23 PM #51
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jors View Post
I have 3 NUBM01T ready to test here

Is "zoof angle" = brewster angle? if so, angle is wavelenght dependant....
Which is the magnification with your 'zoof angle'? at +20% losses surely severe angle...

Anyway...I' pretty sure when prism pair is set at 2x magnification (the setup I described) we get faaaaar less losses then 20%...go to test tonight to get some numbers...
so testing losses with...NICHIA 3-elem + 2x prism pair
Yes...Zoof angle = Brewster angle at approx. 57 degree.

Well....the angle is not severe...but....are we not driven by divergence.

We are comparing two different approaches to optical correction for the astigmatic output of the NUBM01T. To compare these different approaches at parity...divergence equals the playing field. No matter what system I use...I want to correct the beam to deliver a similar Far field geometry.

Using the Anamorphic prism pair...at the standard Zoof angle...57 degree....the aspect correction of the LD Farfield looks to be equal to that of what is obtained with the Cylindrical lens set.

Yes...the more severe the incidence angle is as the beam enters the first prism...the more transmission loss occurs.

Well...my head hurts...even more now.

Again...to compare these two different approaches to optical correction...relative to power loss...we must assume that the Farfield divergence geometry is approx. equal.

Let us know !!! The more testing...the better !!

Thanx,
Beam out
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Old 01-02-2016, 08:31 PM #52
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
But...LS...do the Photons not collide with each other....as the beams cross path's ???
I try to teach my photons to be nice to each other.

Quote:
Logs you're a genius
Not really. Just necessity. This was before DAve had his 2mm lenses available and before cylinder pairs specifically for diodes were available. The shortest FL -cylinders I could find were -12.5. If I recall the positive cyl was 90mm FL. I had all this wasted space between the BE lenses. The prisms are set to reduce the aperture in this case. I am knifing (stacking horizontally) the SA with 4mm lenses so the 3 beams combined = about 12mm wide. After the prisms it was 5mm wide.

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Old 01-02-2016, 08:54 PM #53
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBEAM777 View Post
Yes...Zoof angle = Brewster angle at approx. 57 degree.

Well....the angle is not severe...but....are we not driven by divergence.

We are comparing two different approaches to optical correction for the astigmatic output of the NUBM01T. To compare these different approaches at parity...divergence equals the playing field. No matter what system I use...I want to correct the beam to deliver a similar Far field geometry.

Using the Anamorphic prism pair...at the standard Zoof angle...57 degree....the aspect correction of the LD Farfield looks to be equal to that of what is obtained with the Cylindrical lens set.

Yes...the more severe the incidence angle is as the beam enters the first prism...the more transmission loss occurs.

Well...my head hurts...even more now.

Again...to compare these two different approaches to optical correction...relative to power loss...we must assume that the Farfield divergence geometry is approx. equal.

Let us know !!! The more testing...the better !!

Thanx,
Beam out

Tested right now....GOOD NEWS on power loss and some numbers:

NICHIA NDG7475 (Jordan)+3 elements lens (existotem-ebay)
No correction: (ALL FF MEASUREMENTS @7,6 Meters)
NF 2.2mm (wide) FF 16.5mm(wide) so......1.88mrad

*****Prisms @2x***********
NF 3.2mm (wide) FF 10.5mm(wide) so....0,96mrad
431mW (no prisms) 414mw (prisms) so.... 4% power loss

*****Prisms @3x***********
NF 4mm (wide) FF 9mm(wide) so....0,65mrad
430mW (no prisms) 406mw (prisms) so.... 6% power loss

those are lasertack prisms:
https://www.lasertack.com/en/anamorphic-prism-pairs

About NUBM01T, and you know better than anyone else, prisms are not efficient for that kind of diodes, just like Reds!!,....so even at crazy severe 6x angles with looses at 30% we have a crappy corrected beam...so absolutely CYLS for this diodes.
(I've read why prisms don't work well with p73 and OClaro, but don't remember where. The reason is divergence BUT other optical issues as well, I think its the same with NUBM01T...so you need severe angles with prisms with great losses. On the other hand, you can see GREEN is easily corrected with minimal losses

Last edited by jors; 01-02-2016 at 09:12 PM. Reason: trying to correct my crappy english
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Old 01-02-2016, 09:13 PM #54
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Interesting !!!!! Perhaps the excellent optics from Lasertrack make the difference !!! That is my hope !!!

If the prism's he offers are specifically coated for 520nm....vs BBar....then that could be the difference !!

What distance is your Far field at ??

Perhaps...the 3 element ( vs the G2) do a better job at collimation....and this....delivers a beam....that the Anamorphics can be adjusted to a 2X....and still get great divergence some options ??????

Very interesting thread !!! Thanx !!!!!

See attached pics of my test bed set up for A prism testing.

Beam out !!





Quote:
Originally Posted by jors View Post
Tested right now....GOOD NEWS on power loose and some numbers:

NICHIA NDG7475 (Jordan)+3 elements lens (existotem-ebay)
No correction: (ALL FF MEASUREMENTS @7,6 Meters)
FF 2.2mm (wide) FF 16.5mm(wide) so......1.88mrad

*****Prisms @2x***********
NF 3.2mm (wide) FF 10.5mm(wide) so....0,96mrad
431mW (no prisms) 414mw (prisms) so.... 4% power loose

*****Prisms @3x***********
NF 4mm (wide) FF 9mm(wide) so....0,65mrad
430mW (no prisms) 406mw (prisms) so.... 6% power loose

those are lasertack prisms:
https://www.lasertack.com/en/anamorphic-prism-pairs
Attached Thumbnails
Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.-prism-set-up-1.jpg   Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.-prism-set-up-2.jpg  
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Old 01-02-2016, 09:30 PM #55
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

yes sorry 7,6mts/25ft
IMHO is about the kind of diode not the prisms...lasertack ones are BB AR coated
hey! great testing setup!!

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Old 01-02-2016, 09:50 PM #56
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

How much power is lost on the 3 element as compared to the G2? I know I have measured myself but don't remember.
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Old 01-02-2016, 10:22 PM #57
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logsquared View Post
How much power is lost on the 3 element as compared to the G2? I know I have measured myself but don't remember.
Just measured now: 15% lost. but we all know significant % increase with g2 is junk.
Tested with 'chinese' G2
G2: 499mW
3-ele: 425mW

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Old 01-02-2016, 10:58 PM #58
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Good to know. Thanks for testing.
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Old 01-03-2016, 01:29 AM #59
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

For myself, even if the three element lenses have more loss and sometimes cut some of the beam off, I will take up to 30 percent loss for their lower divergence over a G2 lens, I'm all about power delivered at distance and low divergence often wins there, unless competing with huge amounts of power. This online calculator shows that: https://www.laserworld.com/en/laserw...tml#divergence For example, at a distance of 16,000 meters (close to 10 miles) a 1 watt output (or any power) laser with 1.88 mRad of divergence delivers four times less power at that distance than a laser of half that divergence, or .94 mRad, the beam diameter being half as much at any given distance when the divergence is halved.

I'm sharing this info for those who are just learning, it took me too long to find and understand:



For most of my projects I don't use a G2 lens, unless used out of focus to match up the needed spot size onto a large PCX lens which will then fully collimate the beam, this as a kind of beam expander. That said, in a knife edge arrangement, I might choose to use the lower loss G2 lens and then expand later, not sure. I guess we will hash that out in this project, which ever gives the best results.

The 1.88 mRad divergence of a NDG7475 1W 520nm green laser diode using a three ele. lens is about twice as high as I find acceptable for a pointer, I much prefer tenths of a mRad, .1 mRad would produce a wonderfully tight beam. I've been studying expansion and how that relates to divergence, comparing multimode with single mode diodes and am impressed with how much more power can be delivered at distance in a smaller spot using a single mode diode at 1/10th the power, due to the size of their emitter being so small and how that reduces the amount of beam spread, but for these toys, I also like to see a bright beam close up too, as well as power at distance, so the only solution I have is to run as much power as I can using multimodes and then expand the beam to reduce the divergence.
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Old 01-03-2016, 03:51 PM #60
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jors View Post
Just measured now: 15% lost. but all we now significant % increase with g2 is junk.
Tested with 'chinese' G2
G2: 499mW
3-ele: 425mW
SO...Therein lies the difference...or...most of it....the G2 vs. the 3 element lens.

I bet we have two things going on here...that explain our different test results.

When using a 3 element lens...clipping or some optical process is in play( more glass ). SO...when the 3 element lens is used...the incidence angle of the first anamorphic prism does not need to be set so severe...to obtain reasonable divergence. So...less severe incidence angle means less power loss. But then...the 3 element lens itself reduces some power via clipping or more glass.

I have seen this Power vs. divergence trade-off B4 ! Always compromises when dealing with Optics !!

WOW...Head spinning yet ?

At any rate....at least for the next 5 minutes....I think the best overall combination remains...the G2 + 6X Cylindrical lenses....for the aspect correction ability of the 6X more than make up for the lesser collimation effect when using the G2.

I just want it all !!!

Beam out
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Old 06-05-2016, 09:24 PM #61
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

It seems like most, if not all, of the discussion for combining beams involves mirrors. Has using lenses been explored? Here's a rough concept I was thinking about. Does anyone know if some form, however different, of this concept would work?

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Old 06-05-2016, 11:09 PM #62
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

That lens wont do that, it will expand those beams like crazy, make them very wide and expand the divergence.

It could make a nice liquid sky sheet of light.
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Old 06-05-2016, 11:24 PM #63
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
That lens wont do that, it will expand those beams like crazy, make them very wide and expand the divergence.

It could make a nice liquid sky sheet of light.
Then how is this accomplished?

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Old 06-05-2016, 11:50 PM #64
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

It says it right there, photorefractive beam coupling, let's look it up, it's not a concave cyl, that will expand the beam.
It's possibly a bragg grate combiner.
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Last edited by RedCowboy; 06-05-2016 at 11:51 PM.
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