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Old 01-01-2016, 08:57 PM #33
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

I could be happy with 4 diodes, but 8, wow! The Fenix TK75 flashlight is perfect and can have plenty of battery capacity the way they series parallel additional battery packs in the extension tubes.


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Old 01-02-2016, 03:06 AM #34
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jors View Post
CDBEAM I always enjoy your posts, thanks for that
IMHO I think easier, cheaper, and smaller:

Knife edge 2 and stack over another 2 + PBS + another set
+prism correction + b.e. (8 diodes)

yes, we have gaps increased due magnificaction but beams overlap soon thus reducing-eliminating gaps due beam divergence.

This is how several multimode octo prof modules are done
I would really like to see a pic of this....sounds very interesting !!

I will attempt a Quad....sometime in the future....But...Eight LD's....

WAY over my budget !! But...given some space....sure...it can and has been done !!!

Now...I do not think that Anamorphic prism correction will be sufficient....and If this is so...we are stuck with Cylindrical Lens correction....which has more optical conditions !! I have a set of A-prism's....and will experiment.

I have experimented...and used Anamorphic Prism's...While they correct a beam....when the Aspect ratio is bad....really bad....as with many MM diodes....then....the Anamorphic's will still work....but must be adjusted at such a severe angle of incidence...drastic power loss is a result....like 15% or more loss !!...which is not acceptable for me !

Beam Out
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Old 01-02-2016, 03:09 AM #35
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I could be happy with 4 diodes, but 8, wow! The Fenix TK75 flashlight is perfect and can have plenty of battery capacity the way they series parallel additional battery packs in the extension tubes.
Well....let's give this compact quad design a final view....last drawing

See attached.

Beam out
Attached Thumbnails
Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.-ndg7475-quad-all-views-v1.jpg  
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Old 01-02-2016, 04:10 AM #36
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
I could be happy with 4 diodes, but 8, wow! The Fenix TK75 flashlight is perfect and can have plenty of battery capacity the way they series parallel additional battery packs in the extension tubes.
4, 9, 16
Those will come out better if you square up your MM beams before KE
i.e. Its a 2 level so 2x2, If 9 then 3 level 3x3, 16 means a 4 levels at 4 x 4

You could do 8 on 2 levels of 4 each corrected and KE but you will have a spot that is a rectangle, depending on how square the cylindrical lenses get the beam and how the beams diverge, but if you aim for perfectly square to start and see how you do, then build the monster 16 diode unit later.

Just my 2 cents, I am enjoying watching this build, good luck and good work to both of you.
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Old 01-02-2016, 04:30 AM #37
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Thanks RCB, I'd love to do more diodes but it's hard to find a machinist willing to do this kind of work who has the know how and time to take something like this on, lucky me I found CDBEAM. This project can be number 1, next the bigger one

Only thing I'm trying to figure out right now is whether I need to have a bigger tube made for the modified TK75 I have or not, in order to have the beam exit the center of the tube so I can expand it further. The ID of the tube which would cover everything is exactly 2.75 inches.

I have most of the needed optical mounting parts, drivers, lenses and laser diodes parts except only two sets of the cylinder lenses, will need more of those. I have a dozen 7mm wide low loss (flat but labeled "45 degree") 520nm round bounce mirrors too, but not shown. The 10 lasertack.com first surface prism mirrors are all for green and very low loss too, but made for knife edging. I have a lot more mirrors than I need for this quad because I bought them for an eight diode project:



Not shown, but I also have this 520nm PBS cube which can probably be mounted on one of the Newport MM-050-HEX half inch mounts which can have the round mirror holder unscrewed from it, see links, below:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PBS-520nm-53...-/231580270154

http://search.newport.com/?q=*&x2=sku&q2=MM-050-HEX
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:07 AM #38
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBEAM777 View Post
I would really like to see a pic of this....sounds very interesting !!

I will attempt a Quad....sometime in the future....But...Eight LD's....

WAY over my budget !! But...given some space....sure...it can and has been done !!!

Now...I do not think that Anamorphic prism correction will be sufficient....and If this is so...we are stuck with Cylindrical Lens correction....which has more optical conditions !! I have a set of A-prism's....and will experiment.

I have experimented...and used Anamorphic Prism's...While they correct a beam....when the Aspect ratio is bad....really bad....as with many MM diodes....then....the Anamorphic's will still work....but must be adjusted at such a severe angle of incidence...drastic power loss is a result....like 15% or more loss !!...which is not acceptable for me !

Beam Out
Well, severe angle or not, depends on magnif. you want to achieve.... you probably have seen modules like this.... This is a pic of 12 diodes MM module on PL (10w green)
Photonlexicon

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Old 01-02-2016, 07:26 AM #39
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Jors, that is a beautiful photo, I'd love to have that kind of power in a hand held pointer

I have these parts too, if needed:

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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 01-02-2016, 07:55 AM #40
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

really nice those lasertack machining, what power, divergence and beam diameter you want to achieve?
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Old 01-02-2016, 08:00 AM #41
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Initially I was wanting 2.5 inches or close to 64mm, but 2 inches/50.8mm is enough to take the divergence way down.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 01-02-2016, 08:11 AM #42
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBEAM777 View Post
WOW...Look at that !!! It can be done !!! Great !!!

Looks like they are producing a pattern like....

ll
ll

And the BE is doing it's thing !! Well...in thinking about my Linos experiments...it was off-axis propagation that would not work ....so...if the pitch or yaw were off...that was a problem !!!

Clearly...there are four (4) beams...entering the 4X BE...and one would assume that their aggregate / combined centre line is entering the BE dead centre !!!

Beautiful work !!! IIRC....Tuned Cavity ( who built this) is outa Europe.

BUT...with Cylindrical correction ...or Anamorphic prism's placed in the beam path...then knife edged ...then beam expansion....one would get both beam expansion....and... less divergence ....BUT.... a larger cost/size and complicated build !! That is for sure !!

Perhaps I will experiment with the Tridentis build......remember...that was a three (3) - 9mm diode .. knife edged combined....then all three beams put thru a pair of Anamorphic prism's for correction. I wonder how my Lios BE will handle that output....which was 6.7W combined optical power.

As Doctor Frank N Stein sez......" It...............Could................Work " !!

Beam Out
I'm pretty sure It's 3-elements lens collis on this particular setup..."2mrad no correction". typical side knife edge llll , no vertical stacking...simple design due no axis correction but worse FF beam profile.....3-elem+Ke+be. IMO
btw....2mrad to 0,08mrad...so 25x beam expander.....??

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Old 01-02-2016, 08:20 AM #43
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Initially I was wanting 2.5 inches or close to 64mm, but 2 inches/50.8mm is enough to take the divergence way down.
You could end out of prisms (or cyls) say... 6-7mm beam @1mrad aprox (G2)...+8x B.e. ...resulting in 48mm @0,12mrad beam...to have an idea...
on a 10x.... 60mm beam @0,1mrad etc
(Please Woody correct if I'm wrong)

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Old 01-02-2016, 02:38 PM #44
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jors View Post
Well, severe angle or not, depends on magnif. you want to achieve.... you probably have seen modules like this.... This is a pic of 12 diodes MM module on PL (10w green)
Photonlexicon
Very Interesting...I do see a set of Anamorphics at the final stage !!
Well....the diverergence of say ...the Red's MM ( P73/Oclaro) is too great for Anamorphics...that is certain...Now...maybe the Green's aspect ratio is not as bad as the Red !!! Great !!!

I will experiment with a NUBM01T ( Lower power version of a NDG7475 )...and a set of Anamorphics I have in the lab !! I will see what the incidence angle must be to accomplish correction. If the Zoof angle...perfect !!

If this works...Wonderful !! Thanx Jors !
In what section was that on PL ??

Just gather up all those beams...and put'em thru one set of " Glasses "
No problem !!

At the end of the day... The goal is to pac four (4) beams into the host...in the most efficient and less complicated fashion...and still achieve the desired results !!!

With the current Green Quad design in my posts...is far from ...er....ah...un-complicated....I am fairly certain...it will work...but...if there is a more simple, less complicated solution...let's go that way !!!!!! All depends on how much correction one wants/needs to achieve...and to what do to get there !!


Beam out
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Last edited by CDBEAM777; 01-02-2016 at 03:32 PM.
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Old 01-02-2016, 06:15 PM #45
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CDBEAM777 View Post
Very Interesting...I do see a set of Anamorphics at the final stage !!
Well....the diverergence of say ...the Red's MM ( P73/Oclaro) is too great for Anamorphics...that is certain...Now...maybe the Green's aspect ratio is not as bad as the Red !!! Great !!!

I will experiment with a NUBM01T ( Lower power version of a NDG7475 )...and a set of Anamorphics I have in the lab !! I will see what the incidence angle must be to accomplish correction. If the Zoof angle...perfect !!

If this works...Wonderful !! Thanx Jors !
In what section was that on PL ??

Just gather up all those beams...and put'em thru one set of " Glasses "
No problem !!

At the end of the day... The goal is to pac four (4) beams into the host...in the most efficient and less complicated fashion...and still achieve the desired results !!!

With the current Green Quad design in my posts...is far from ...er....ah...un-complicated....I am fairly certain...it will work...but...if there is a more simple, less complicated solution...let's go that way !!!!!! All depends on how much correction one wants/needs to achieve...and to what do to get there !!


Beam out

Here's the Post on PL:

Post #34 #66

lightspace ascent-x series - Page 2

Sure!! Despite I'm a fan of cylindricals (less looses), IMO prisms are easy to work with when going with 4 or more MM diodes (except reds, of course).
So, yes, Nichia 1W green can be easily corrected with prisms for 1-1,5mrad

For 4 diodes...multiple options here...it all depends on budged, size required, beam specs...
We all know lots of possible setups: cyls vs prism, llll vs ---- vs ll+PBS+ll vs l over l +PBS+another set+only ONE cyl pair (like we do on P73 reds) etc etc

We could take long long time analysing each option but IMO, for a handheld device, where size is a MUST (thus simplicity), high align stability is required...so robust...near to hits immune... and we are not rich...(me not!!) I would like to go with:

*****3-layer lens (8mm EFL):
Taking into account we are going to end with high beam expander (increasing gaps), it is good to start with a 'reasonable' expansion before knife edge...so less prism expansion is required after = thinner gaps after prism correction

-G2+knife edge....more prism expansion required...fatter gaps
-3-elements+knife edge....less prism expansion required...thinner gaps

on the other side.... G2 less losses BUT more losses on prisms (high prism expansion required)
3-elements: more losses BUT less losses on prisms (less prism expansion required)
g2: more power but more junk
3-elem: -15% power lost, but cleaner spot


BUT, As I said...we are going to END with HIGH spherical B.E., so we need thinner gaps before expansion...for me, no doubt...3-elements here.

*****'Standard' side knife edge: llll
yes, yes, PBS more energy density...vertical stacking better FF beam profile...I know...BUT I said simple, affordable, small footprint, stable...robust!!!

so IMO 4-in-line diode host, same diode weight, no vertical stacks... and 4 mirror mounts for side-knife edging...one bolt+prism mirror type best option (really stable)...or angled flexmounts with flat bounce mirrors..etc

-So we now have llll and 1,8mrad

*****PRISM CORRECTION 2-3x magnification
With 2x expansion....we get 0,9mrad...not bad . Have not data here, but not high losses at 2x prisms setup...If I remember.....5-8% ??


****Then HIT the BE....for example 10x to get 0,09mrad and a really fat beam..I expect 60mm (very very aprox...not tested)

Last edited by jors; 01-02-2016 at 10:44 PM.
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:25 PM #46
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jors View Post
Here's the Post on PL:

Post #34 #66

lightspace ascent-x series - Page 2

Sure!! Despite I'm a fan of cylindricals (less looses), IMO prisms are easy to work with when going with 4 or more MM diodes (except reds, of course).
So, yes, Nichia 1W green can be easily corrected with prisms for 1-1,5mrad

For 4 diodes...multiple options here...it all depends on budged, size required, beam specs...
We all know lots of possible setups: cyls vs prism, llll vs ---- vs ll+PBS+ll vs l over l +PBS+another set+only ONE cyl pair (like we do on P73 reds) etc etc

We could take long long time analysing each option but for me, for a handheld device, where size is a MUST (thus simplicity) and we are not rich...(me not!!) I would like to go with:

*****3-layer lens (8mm EFL):
Taking into account we are going to end with high beam expander (increasing gaps), it is good to start with a 'reasonable' expansion before knife edge...so less prism expansion required=thinner gaps after prism

-G2+knife edge----more prism expansion required----fatter gaps
-3-elements+knife edge----less prism expansion required---thinner gaps

on the other side.... G2 less losses BUT more losses on prisms (high prism expansion required)
3-elements: more losses BUT less losses on prisms (less prism expansion required)

BUT, As I said...we are going to END with HIGH spherical B.E., so we need thinner gaps before expansion...for me, no doubt...3-elements here.

*****'Standard' side knife edge: llll
yes, yes, PBS more energy density...vertical stacking better FF beam profile...I know...BUT I said simple, affordable, small footprint...robust!!!

so 4-in-line diode host, same weight, and 4 mirror mounts for side-knife edging...one bolt+prism mirror type...or angled flexmounts with flat bounce mirrors..etc

-So we now have llll and 1,8mrad

*****PRISM CORRECTION 2-3x magnification
With 2x expansion....we get 0,9mrad...not bad . Have not data here, but not high losses at 2x prisms setup...If I remember.....5-8% ??


****Then HIT the BE....for example 10x to get 0,09mrad and a really fat beam..I expect 60mm (very very aprox...not tested)
WOW...not that is a very complete answer....Thank you...and I will need to re-read many times...to make sure I understand !! But...

I just did some power loss testing.

The Optic Gods have not smiled on us this day !

Set-up

NUBM01T with a G2 Collimation lens driven by a Lazereer driver.

All set-up measured at approx.equal divergence geometry at the Far field.

Here is what I measured...with a Scientech 362 10W Meter;

-------------------------------------------------------------------

No corrective optics other than the G2 Collimation lens @ 1450 mW

Cylindrical Optics BBar coated (6X) @ 1400 mW

Anamorphic Prism BBar coated ( set at the Zoof angle) @ 1125 mW


This calculates to;

3.4% loss of transmission thru the Cylindrical Lens pair

22.4% loss of transmission thru the Anamorphic Prism pair

It would be great if this were verified by someone else !!! Scientific methodology is picky that way !! Perhaps my method is flawed ???

IF this is indeed true....then...for my buck....I would not want to loose
325 mW per diode....or 975 total mW loss in a quad set up.

Yes...there will also be losses with the Cylindrical lens use...projected at 50 mW loss per LD....or about 200 total mW loss in a quad set up.

Trust me....I would much prefer the use of Anamorphic prism's....much less complicated a set up.... but....not at that difference !! I want to squeeze out every photon out the front end !!

Beam out
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Last edited by CDBEAM777; 01-02-2016 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Corrected my math
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:28 PM #47
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Here is a design I did a few years ago. Just another way to arrange things.

[IMG][/IMG]
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Old 01-02-2016, 07:48 PM #48
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Default Re: Seeking links to good knife edging techniques material.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logsquared View Post
Here is a design I did a few years ago. Just another way to arrange things.

[IMG][/IMG]
But...LS...do the Photons not collide with each other....as the beams cross path's ??? Photons " act" like they have mass !!! HAHAHA !! Just some dumb " Beam Humor "

My head hurts...from too much think'in !! ...and then I employ silly humor !!



Beam out
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Purple pHAZE Combiner - Red + Blue = Purple-Completed http://laserpointerforums.com/f42/pu...ple-93717.html
Sky Blue Ramjet-Corrected NUBMO7E- Completed http://laserpointerforums.com/f42/sk...ild-94646.html
Check out http://www.hobbylasers.com/

Last edited by CDBEAM777; 01-02-2016 at 07:51 PM.
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