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Old 08-09-2015, 04:47 AM #1
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Question More info on the S1 lens?

so ive been looking forever but i haven't found much info on the S1 lenses other than they are better than G-2 lenses.

so far, all the info i have is that they result in similar divergence to G-2, 5% more efficient than them as well, but i am not sure about either of these. so if anyone has info regarding efficiency, divergence, and beam splash effects compared to other lenses it would be greatly appreciated.


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Old 08-09-2015, 05:19 AM #2
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

There's really not much to say other than the efficiency you've already seen. All those G-1, G-2, G-9, S-1, whatever lenses are just 6.3mm lenses with short focal lengths and AR coatings.

Most of the power "gain" is from using a single lens with a short focal length that allows the lens to capture more light than a longer focal length lens that cuts off some of the input, and the rest is from the AR coating. Since they're short focal length lenses, they capture all the wings and spill from the emitters, and therefore the beams don't look as nice awesome as other lenses such as the 3-element lens. The 3-element lens has additional losses due to multiple lenses.
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Old 08-09-2015, 05:23 AM #3
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

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Originally Posted by Bionic-Badger View Post
There's really not much to say other than the efficiency you've already seen. All those G-1, G-2, G-9, S-1, whatever lenses are just 6.3mm lenses with short focal lengths and AR coatings.

Most of the power "gain" is from using a single lens with a short focal length that allows the lens to capture more light than a longer focal length lens that cuts off some of the input, and the rest is from the AR coating. Since they're short focal length lenses, they capture all the wings and spill from the emitters, and therefore the beams don't look as nice awesome as other lenses such as the 3-element lens. The 3-element lens has additional losses due to multiple lenses.
any specific information though? like AR coating range, efficiency, beam splash. i understand all of that BTW i just want to get more info before i spend 27$ on some lenses.
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Old 08-09-2015, 05:56 AM #4
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

They'll have the same basic properties of the other lenes, except maybe the coating.

I think they're just broadband from the AR coating appearance. It's reflecting some sort of light bluish tint, but not the dark blue of the AR coatings for red; no yellow tint like the AR coatings for short wavelengths either. They're pretty cheap, so you can probably just get them as general purpose lenses until you want to pony up for a G-series lens.

They work for my needs. Other than these, the only "G-series" type lenses I've ever bought were the bare G-9 lenses to put into my own barrels. The S-1 or whatever the short-FL lenses are seem to work fine for most of my needs.
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Old 08-09-2015, 07:07 AM #5
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic-Badger View Post
They'll have the same basic properties of the other lenes, except maybe the coating.

I think they're just broadband from the AR coating appearance. It's reflecting some sort of light bluish tint, but not the dark blue of the AR coatings for red; no yellow tint like the AR coatings for short wavelengths either. They're pretty cheap, so you can probably just get them as general purpose lenses until you want to pony up for a G-series lens.

They work for my needs. Other than these, the only "G-series" type lenses I've ever bought were the bare G-9 lenses to put into my own barrels. The S-1 or whatever the short-FL lenses are seem to work fine for most of my needs.
do you think that the G lenses are better, so i should save up for them? or am i right when i say that the S1 lenses are more efficient (less energy lost)? as my understanding goes G9>S1>G-2≈G-1>G7>AR coated 3 Element>Acrylic, in terms of efficiency, is this not correct? or are all the single element lenses to similar to really judge?

what i'm mainly concerned with is energy loss and cost. if its cheap, and in the range of G-2's im happy, as long as there are no serious drawbacks. it sounds like you are happy with S1's but you say "pony up for a G series lens" do you think that they are much better, or does it not matter as much?

sorry to ask a lot of questions, i just want to be sure.
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Old 08-09-2015, 08:28 AM #6
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

I think it depends on the wave length you want to use it for. The genuine G2 lens that's made in the US is coated for 405nm but works well for 445/450/520, these are the ones DTR and Survival Laser sell. The G2 is also available coated for red 620nm - 1080nm, but as far as I know, no one is selling them so you have to buy the lenses and lens holders separate and assemble the lenses yourself like with the G9 lenses. Here is data on that lens: http://www.laser66.com/html/650-G-2.pdf you can buy them here: Creative Technology - 650-G-2 Lens Page Creative Technology - Your source for diode lasers and laser modules at green, red and other wavelengths. I think the other single element lenses like Bionic said have a broadband coating. I have tried the G2 copies sold by AixiZ but I haven't bothered to test the difference in performance. The G9 lenses I guess will soon no longer be available, DTR is clearing them out at only $25 for 5: https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/home/glass-lenses

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Old 08-09-2015, 08:45 AM #7
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
I think it depends on the wave length you want to use it for. The genuine G2 lens that's made in the US is coated for 405nm but works well for 445/450/520, these are the ones DTR and Survival Laser sell. The G2 is also available coated for red 620nm - 1080nm, but as far as I know, no one is selling them so you have to buy the lenses and lens holders separate and assemble the lenses yourself like with the G9 lenses. Here is data on that lens: http://www.laser66.com/html/650-G-2.pdf you can buy them here: Creative Technology - 650-G-2 Lens Page Creative Technology - Your source for diode lasers and laser modules at green, red and other wavelengths. I think the other single element lenses like Bionic said have a broadband coating. I have tried the G2 copies sold by AixiZ but I haven't bothered to test the difference in performance. The G9 lenses I guess will soon no longer be available, DTR is clearing them out at only $25 for 5: https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/home/glass-lenses

Alan
Stupid phone deleted my other post!

Anyways, I think that the S1 lenses will do for my application. if they of offer the same 30% increase in power over 3 element lenses as G lenses, I'll be happy.

I'll report back on the beam specs in this thread one I get the lenses.

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Old 08-09-2015, 11:20 AM #8
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

With my S1 lenses used with a 450nm M140 laser diode I get some splash I don't get with the G2 lens, but because of their low price from a GB last year @ under $5 each, I have a bunch of them for general purpose lenses.

From what I've read regarding the three element lenses, the beam characteristics are much better and the divergence (reportedly, I have not confirmed this myself) is so much tighter I put one on a 1+ watt output 520nm laser diode and like it. If a three element lens can indeed reduce the divergence over a G2 lens, it would produce more power at a distance than the G2 lens, even though it has less loss. Has anyone verified a three element lens can produce a tighter divergence? Perhaps this isn't true as divergence is only reduced by having a larger diameter beam, right?
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Old 08-09-2015, 03:18 PM #9
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
With my S1 lenses used with a 450nm M140 laser diode I get some splash I don't get with the G2 lens, but because of their low price from a GB last year @ under $5 each, I have a bunch of them for general purpose lenses.

From what I've read regarding the three element lenses, the beam characteristics are much better and the divergence (reportedly, I have not confirmed this myself) is so much tighter I put one on a 1+ watt output 520nm laser diode and like it. If a three element lens can indeed reduce the divergence over a G2 lens, it would produce more power at a distance than the G2 lens, even though it has less loss. Has anyone verified a three element lens can produce a tighter divergence? Perhaps this isn't true as divergence is only reduced by having a larger diameter beam, right?
well, ive got a high power red with the oclaro diode so id probably be able to test divergence pretty well once the lenses get here.
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445nm 1300mw
405nm BDR-209 16x @ 0.6A, S1 lens, 501B LED'ed

Laserbee A 2W LPM 1mw resolution.

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Old 08-09-2015, 04:37 PM #10
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

The 3-elements don't do anything to the divergence. What they do is produce a more round terminus dot by truncating the edges of the long axis of the beam. So instead of a rectangular shaped dot...
.____...................__
|____| you get.... (__) a rectangle truncated by the edges of the

barrel. This is where part of the power loss comes from. I suck at ASCII art, but you get the idea.

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Has anyone verified a three element lens can produce a tighter divergence? Perhaps this isn't true as divergence is only reduced by having a larger diameter beam, right?
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Old 08-09-2015, 10:22 PM #11
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

I ordered a few from scifi along with a G9 from ebay I'll compare them once I get them. I don't no much about optics though so we shall see
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Old 08-10-2015, 12:46 AM #12
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

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Originally Posted by micheal rosen View Post
do you think that the G lenses are better, so i should save up for them? or am i right when i say that the S1 lenses are more efficient (less energy lost)? as my understanding goes G9>S1>G-2≈G-1>G7>AR coated 3 Element>Acrylic, in terms of efficiency, is this not correct? or are all the single element lenses to similar to really judge?
For me at least, I don't think the G-1/G-2 lenses are worth the money compared to S-1 type lenses. They're good lenses, but a lot of their cost came from the fact that they were the only lens in town that passed that much light, and Laser66 was selling them for $25 each or something. Now with other sources of lenses, there are much more economical alternatives.

Plus, with the power levels lasers produce these days, even losing 100-200mW to losses doesn't matter all too much. I'd only be worried that back-reflections could damage the diode itself, but those S-1 lenses are pretty good anyway. If you're not building some 6W monster, you're probably okay. Even then, it may have been dirt or other problems that causes backwards reflections.

Also, if you want a good G-type lens, you can buy the bare G9 lenses from DTR (while supplies last!) and the empty barrels and make your own. They're supposedly even better than the G-1/G-2 lenses. That's what I've done.

It's easy to do too. There are tutorials. After soaking in rubbing alcohol for a while, just get a pair of needle nose pliers and snap off the metal casing on the lens. Drop the lens in the barrel, screw it down, and you're done. It's the same process for bare G-1/G-2 lenses, only without the metal casing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi R Squared View Post
The G2 is also available coated for red 620nm - 1080nm, but as far as I know, no one is selling them so you have to buy the lenses and lens holders separate and assemble the lenses yourself like with the G9 lenses.
Buying G-series lenses for red may not be worth it anyway. The acrylic red AR-coated lenses (deep blue coating) have some great transmission characteristics of all the lenses for red mostly because they're like those G-series lenses (single lens, coated). The red wavelengths also don't melt the plastic the way the shorter wavelengths do; though I haven't tried it for those 1W 638nm.

Lazeerer also had (has?) some AR coated single lenses for red as well. You can ask him about them.
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Old 08-10-2015, 12:53 AM #13
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bionic-Badger View Post
For me at least, I don't think the G-1/G-2 lenses are worth the money compared to S-1 type lenses. They're good lenses, but a lot of their cost came from the fact that they were the only lens in town that passed that much light, and Laser66 was selling them for $25 each or something. Now with other sources of lenses, there are much more economical alternatives.

Plus, with the power levels lasers produce these days, even losing 100-200mW to losses doesn't matter all too much. I'd only be worried that back-reflections could damage the diode itself, but those S-1 lenses are pretty good anyway. If you're not building some 6W monster, you're probably okay. Even then, it may have been dirt or other problems that causes backwards reflections.

Also, if you want a good G-type lens, you can buy the bare G9 lenses from DTR (while supplies last!) and the empty barrels and make your own. They're supposedly even better than the G-1/G-2 lenses. That's what I've done.

It's easy to do too. There are tutorials. After soaking in rubbing alcohol for a while, just get a pair of needle nose pliers and snap off the metal casing on the lens. Drop the lens in the barrel, screw it down, and you're done. It's the same process for bare G-1/G-2 lenses, only without the metal casing.



Buying G-series lenses for red may not be worth it anyway. The acrylic red AR-coated lenses (deep blue coating) have some great transmission characteristics of all the lenses for red mostly because they're like those G-series lenses (single lens, coated). The red wavelengths also don't melt the plastic the way the shorter wavelengths do; though I haven't tried it for those 1W 638nm.

Lazeerer also had (has?) some AR coated single lenses for red as well. You can ask him about them.
thank you for all the help!

just a few minutes ago i pulled the trigger and ordered some S1 lenses. ill see how they do in terms of divergence, and beam splash for 3 wavelengths, multi- and single mode diodes, compared to 3 element glass lenses with the proper AR coatings.

ill update with the results once i get the lenses and do the tests (which wont be for a while since the lenses are coming from Eitan, in Israel)
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Old 08-11-2015, 12:39 AM #14
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

Someone once posted the three element lens produced a tighter beam which I mistook to mean divergence, I think... I couldn't see how it could possibly reduce divergence but I've been pondering their statement for awhile now, finally understanding, only tighter because it cuts off some of the wider edges of the beam to make a more round output
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:26 AM #15
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

Where are these s-1 lenses from?

FYI

the 3 element lenses are 8mm Fl the G2 are 4mm FL. Therefore the divergence of the 3 element is 1/2 that of the G2. This reduction in divergence is from the the longer Fl not from the beam getting clipped. The reduction in power is from the beam getting clipped and the extra air-glass interfaces the beam passe through.
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Old 08-11-2015, 01:35 AM #16
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Default Re: More info on the S1 lens?

Quote:
Originally Posted by logsquared View Post
Where are these s-1 lenses from?

FYI

the 3 element lenses are 8mm Fl the G2 are 4mm FL. Therefore the divergence of the 3 element is 1/2 that of the G2. This reduction in divergence is from the the longer Fl not from the beam getting clipped. The reduction in power is from the beam getting clipped and the extra air-glass interfaces the beam passe through.
the S1 lenses i'm getting are from israel, Eitan of sci fi lasers is selling them on ebay, don't know where the lenses themselves are from but i think they're from china, not sure though.
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405nm BDR-209 16x @ 0.6A, S1 lens, 501B LED'ed

Laserbee A 2W LPM 1mw resolution.

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