Laser pointer discussion. Read/write reviews of laser pointers and laser pointer companies. Learn about all types of laser pointers and lasers





Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums! If you are looking for a laser pointer or want to compare different laser pointer companies, you may want to check out the LPF Laser Pointer Company Database. The link will open in a new window for your convenience.








Green Laser Pointers by Category Blue Laser Pointers by Category Red Laser Pointers by Category
Yellow Laser Pointers by Category Violet Laser Pointers by Category Orange Laser Pointers by Category
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes
Laser Technology Laser Pointer Parts Lasers by Wavelength
Top 10 Laser Pointer Companies Laser Pointer Company Database Visible Beam Laser Pointers


One laser store meets all your needs

























Go Back   Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers > Lasers > Optics



LPF List of Laser Pointer Companies (link opens new window)



Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-17-2010, 08:54 PM #1
Kenom's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,629
Rep Power: 304
Kenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Kenom
Kenom Kenom is offline
Class 4 Laser
Kenom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,629
Rep Power: 304
Kenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Kenom
Default the lens rant educating everyone.

OK, I have to do this.. It's been on my mind forever and it's a simple fact of lenses that we all seem to have overlooked when comparing all of the assorted lenses available to us to date.

Now, this is not taking into consideration coatings. Coatings are an aspect that just aren't relevant to this discussion. If we were to compare two different lenses with the exact same coatings, the information discussed in this posting would not vary at all because they are the same coatings.

What I am going to discuss is how a lens WORKS. This is a simple thing that we've all pretty much overlooked in how it relates to our lasers. We see a beam coming from our lasers and notice that it can affect the way that our lasers focus and so forth, but there is an aspect that is widely forgotten in lenses and lasers.

Ok on to the discussion. /rant

Lenses bend light. Change the path. However lenses do not change the paths so completely that you change the light to create something other than the original light.. an example


The bulb on the left is the source of the light. After passing through the convex lens, the image gets inverted and it reduces teh size of the image. On the other side (the right) our bulb is now upside down and considerably smaller. However, the bulb can clearly be see AS A BULB. The lens does not distort the image of teh bulb other than make it smaller. If it does distort the image, then it's not a very good lens. we're going to switch to laser sources now to continue our representations. A laser diode shines into a plano convex lens. This just means it's flatish on one side instead of curved on both. These are the lenses used in 99% or our lasers. The image of the laser diode is still the same with this lens. If however we get splatter or stuff in our dots we have to look at is the source the lens or the diode. The wings we all see on our diodes are pretty clearly a result of an enhancement of the bleed over from the junctions in a laser diode that is then getting projected through the lens. (there is a better image of this in a macro on a LOC barely lasing, but I can never find it anymore. Maybe someone can point it out to me and we can end this debate on the source of the wings once and for all)


Lets go back to this other splatter though. When seen big as in the example of a 405-g-1 lens, (hope you don't mind me using your image jay)

this splatter is NOT caused by the diode. We know this because other lenses create a nice clean dot. However, when you focus this mess down to a small spot, the dot does not clean up. Instead it just gets smaller. However no matter how small we get this messy image, it will still be a messy image. All of that light is not focused in a small .(dot) it is spread over a smaller area yes, but certainly not like our nice clean dot. If we were to focus that nice small dot, all that energy would be focused in one place. We have to imagine looking at that image through a microscope. It's still that messy image. Yes, the 405-g-1 as our example passes more light thanks to it's coatings, but we're not discussing coatings. We are discussing true raw power. In our perfect world without the need for coatings, we would then see the messy image not capable of burning as well as the nice clean dot since more energy is now focused into a cleaner small image, than a messy one.

In conclusion, what we need to see is not a messy image, but a clean one with the ability to pass as much light as the messy lenses. (the 405-g-1 is not the only one incapable of creating a good image).
Consider yourselves edumacated.

/rant



Last edited by Kenom; 07-17-2010 at 09:01 PM.
Kenom is offline   Reply With Quote







LPF List of Laser Pointer Companies (link opens new window)







Old 07-17-2010, 09:01 PM #2
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,728
Rep Power: 547
ElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond repute
ElektroFreak ElektroFreak is offline
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 5,728
Rep Power: 547
ElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond reputeElektroFreak has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the lens rant educating everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenom View Post
Lets go back to this other splatter though. When seen big as in the example of a 405-g-1 lens, (hope you don't mind me using your image jay)

this splatter is NOT caused by the diode. We know this because other lenses create a nice clean dot. However, when you focus this mess down to a small spot, the dot does not clean up. Instead it just gets smaller. However no matter how small we get this messy image, it will still be a messy image. All of that light is not focused in a small .(dot) it is spread over a smaller area yes, but certainly not like our nice clean dot. If we were to focus that nice small dot, all that energy would be focused in one place. We have to imagine looking at that image through a microscope. It's still that messy image. Yes, the 405-g-1 as our example passes more light thanks to it's coatings, but we're not discussing coatings. We are discussing true raw power. In our perfect world without the need for coatings, we would then see the messy image not capable of burning as well as the nice clean dot since more energy is now focused into a cleaner small image, than a messy one.

Nice ken! One thing I'd like to point out is that the outline of the squareish halo above is actually produced by the diode. The splatter haze inside the halo and everywhere else is from the lens.
__________________
Laser Resources (for n00bs and veterans alike!)

Sam's Laser FAQ (The Laser Bible)

http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/laserfaq.htm

RP Photonics Encyclopedia of Laser Physics and Technology

http://www.rp-photonics.com/encyclopedia.html

ULTIMATE DIY PROJECTOR REFERENCE

http://nqlasers.com/scannerreference...itle=Main_Page

SUCCESS is the best revenge.
ElektroFreak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2010, 09:04 PM #3
Kenom's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,629
Rep Power: 304
Kenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Kenom
Kenom Kenom is offline
Class 4 Laser
Kenom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,629
Rep Power: 304
Kenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Kenom
Default Re: the lens rant educating everyone.

I should have posted this in the lens section. I'll see if I can get a mod to move it for me
Kenom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 02:09 PM #4
Benm's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 7,440
Rep Power: 18210
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Benm Benm is online now
Class 4 Laser
Benm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 7,440
Rep Power: 18210
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the lens rant educating everyone.

I don't think there is any debate on the cause of the wings - those are produced by the diode, no matter what lens is used.

That picture looks rather messy though - but i suppose this lens is engineered to pass maximum power and compromise on image quality. Personally i like the aixiz glass lenses best (at least for red), perhaps some power is lost in them, but the result is a very clear dot, apart from the unavoidable wings.
Benm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 05:13 PM #5
FireMyLaser's Avatar
Class 3B Laser
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,052
Rep Power: 567
FireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to FireMyLaser
FireMyLaser FireMyLaser is online now
Class 3B Laser
FireMyLaser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 3,052
Rep Power: 567
FireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond reputeFireMyLaser has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to FireMyLaser
Default Re: the lens rant educating everyone.

The best way to somewhat get rid of the wings is to put an aperture on the laser, some distance away from the lens. You can't completely remove it.
__________________
Niko likes cereal.
FireMyLaser is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 05:51 PM #6
Kenom's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,629
Rep Power: 304
Kenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Kenom
Kenom Kenom is offline
Class 4 Laser
Kenom's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 5,629
Rep Power: 304
Kenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond reputeKenom has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via MSN to Kenom
Default Re: the lens rant educating everyone.

well the wings question has come up many times... "where do the wings come from" "what causes it" "is my dot supposed to have these" "how do I get rid of them" As to the last firemylaser has indicated the only method of getting rid of them.

As to the source, it is my belief that the junction between the P material and N material leaves a micro gap that allows that light to then come out. That or it is like shining a laser into the side of a piece of glass or acryclic and having it come out there. Regardless of the reason behind the cause, this is what is causing them. Light from the laser diode does not just come from that one place. It comes from the whole junction and as such every diode I've seen has the wings and will have the wings in the future.
Kenom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-18-2010, 09:59 PM #7
Benm's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 7,440
Rep Power: 18210
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Benm Benm is online now
Class 4 Laser
Benm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 7,440
Rep Power: 18210
Benm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond reputeBenm has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the lens rant educating everyone.

Yup, the wings are emitted from the diode. If you just shine the diode without any lens, they fall within the profile on the wall and hard hardly noticeable (perhaps as slightly brighter areas witin the round projection, above and below the main power oval).

You can get rid of them with an aperture, but that has to be pretty far from the lens to do any good. Near the lens the wings are still in the main beam, but they have bigger divergence. If you really must get rid of them an aperture will work, but it needs to be several inches from the lens to be effective... not practical for a pointer, but doable in a projector as you could place the aperture just before the scanner mirrors.

Personally i don't mind them that much though - its just what a diode laser looks like: a bright dot with a faint stripe through it. It can even be useful when aligning lasers for PBS combination as the line is at a fixed angle to the direction of polarization.
Benm is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 09:47 AM #8
Addonex's Avatar
Class 2 Laser
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 299
Rep Power: 31
Addonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond repute
Addonex Addonex is offline
Class 2 Laser
Addonex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: United States
Posts: 299
Rep Power: 31
Addonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond reputeAddonex has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the lens rant educating everyone.



Very nice post!
Addonex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 11:15 AM #9
JLSE's Avatar
A.R Coated Madman
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ɯɐǝq ssɐ-ǝʇıɹq ǝɥʇ puıɥǝq
Posts: 3,587
Rep Power: 716
JLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond repute
JLSE JLSE is offline
A.R Coated Madman
JLSE's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: ɯɐǝq ssɐ-ǝʇıɹq ǝɥʇ puıɥǝq
Posts: 3,587
Rep Power: 716
JLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond reputeJLSE has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the lens rant educating everyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenom View Post
It's still that messy image. Yes, the 405-g-1 as our example passes more light thanks to it's coatings, but we're not discussing coatings. We are discussing true raw power. In our perfect world without the need for coatings, we would then see the messy image not capable of burning as well as the nice clean dot since more energy is now focused into a cleaner small image, than a messy one.

In conclusion, what we need to see is not a messy image, but a clean one with the ability to pass as much light as the messy lenses. (the 405-g-1 is not the only one incapable of creating a good image).


/rant
Coatings assist the lens in absorption, and reduce reflection back into the cavity.
The primary purpose of anti reflective coatings with laser is to spare the diode
the stress of increased optical flux.

With the glass ashperics that are sold here, coatings actually play less a role as
far as power is concerned.

The higher NA with these lenses allow the lens to sit closer to the diode and in turn
passes all the light from the LD with no 'clipping' while producing a parallel beam.

Aixiz triple elements produce a nicer beam simply because there are 3 lenses
that shape it. If im not mistaken the first 2 lenses expand and the 3rd collimates,
resulting in a tighter beam with lower divergence.

The aixiz also sits 3-4mm further away from the LD to make a parallel beam
and clips the 'messy' edges of the of the LD's output..

The higher the NA rating the better for more power, but you cannot have
quality and power without sacrificing one or the other.


Some on it here, click 'collimation tutorial' > Thorlabs.com - Visible Laser Diodes: Center Wavelengths from 405 nm to 785 nm
__________________
Recent Projects:
-----
JLSE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 04:17 PM #10
BShanahan14rulz's Avatar
Class 3B Laser
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,175
Rep Power: 264
BShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond repute
BShanahan14rulz BShanahan14rulz is offline
Class 3B Laser
BShanahan14rulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,175
Rep Power: 264
BShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond reputeBShanahan14rulz has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the lens rant educating everyone.

Is the image 1:1? meaning, when you focus a laser, will the resulting "point" be the same size and shape as the actual emitting area on the facet of the diode?

Also, that picture is a great representation. You can clearly see the round halo caused by the lens, and the square ghosts caused by the diode structure and its substrate.
BShanahan14rulz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-01-2010, 06:15 PM #11
lasersbee's Avatar
Class 4 Laser
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 15,822
Rep Power: 44556
lasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond repute
lasersbee lasersbee is offline
Class 4 Laser
lasersbee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Quebec, Canada
Posts: 15,822
Rep Power: 44556
lasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond reputelasersbee has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: the lens rant educating everyone.

You can see the same square ghosts image without a lens..
holding the 445nm LD close to a white surface...even at
low output powers..

@ wannaburn... thanks for the Thorlab link...


Jerry
__________________

J.BAUER Electronics Home Page

LaserBee Laser Power Meter Products meet your needs
at affordable Prices:
See them all here on LPF

LaserBee Power Meter products ALWAYS in Stock
and ready to ship

Also available on eBay:Check availability here..

Subsidary: Pharma Electronic Solutions


This banner is available to and can be copied/used FREE by any LaserBee owner
lasersbee is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On











Loading








Green Laser Pointers by Category Blue Laser Pointers by Category Red Laser Pointers by Category
Yellow Laser Pointers by Category Violet Laser Pointers by Category Orange Laser Pointers by Category
Top Laser Pointers by Power - 1 Watt+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 500mW+ Top Laser Pointers by Power - 250mW+
Laser Pointer Database High Power Laser Pointers Laser Pointer Diodes






Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use


 


All times are GMT. The time now is 12:49 AM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO
Privacy Policy | Advertising Disclaimer | Terms of Use
Copyright (C) 2017 Laser Pointer Forums, LLC