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Old 11-13-2007, 07:15 PM #1
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Default Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

Hi!

I have a few questions about scanning and various other laser show related questions!

1.) What IS TTL? From what I've picked up, it can be used to turn the laser off on and off really quickly. Is this part of a feature of the laser or the driver? i.e. if I bought a cheapo DX labby laser, could I add TTL later to it?

2.) Analogue Modulation - I'm guessing this lets you have various 'shades' of colour inbetween the On/Off of TTL. Are these really that more expensive? And again, is it a feature of the laser, or the driver circuit?

3.) When lasers (such as the Lanling ones) say TTL upto 30k, does that mean it has to match the scanning speed of the galvo's? so I could only have a max of 30k galvos? or if I had a 10k TTL laser, does it mean I can't use more than 10k galvo's?

4.) What is a scanning angle? Why is it important? and why do the points per sec, change on the angle?

5.) Laser show software - I can hardly find any manufacture's websites for laser sofware, I know about the pangolin one, but would something like this work well? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/iShow-Laser-Sh...QQcmdZViewItem

EDIT: Found the EXACT same version (minus UK plug) on Chinese dept. store for half the price! http://www.chinesedepartmentstore.co...oducts_id/1915

6.) Galvo's - Why is the best and cheapest place to buy a decent set? I'd love to do really detailed animation , but I know this is not possible with cheap galvo's. So what is the happy medium?
Links + Prices?

7.) I want to start off with a 1 colour system, then turn it into a RYG system and then the full blown RGB. I DON'T want to keep replacing parts, just adding more lasers! So what do you think is the best roadmap? Stick with TTL, or invest in analogue gear? or is it too expensive?

8.) So for a laser scanning system that is PC controlled, I'd need the following: (please correct if wrong)

1x + laser + PSU
2x Galvo's + AMPs + PSU
1x Software
1x DAC
1x PC!
A box and some fans!

BTW: Andy your guide is excellent, and made me want to make my own - the dolphin animation is FANTASTIC!!!!


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Old 11-13-2007, 08:13 PM #2
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

http://www.laser-man.co.uk/2006/inde...&Itemid=66
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:27 PM #3
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

Quote:
1.) What IS TTL? From what I've picked up, it can be used to turn the laser off on and off really quickly. Is this part of a feature of the laser or the driver? i.e. if I bought a cheapo DX labby laser, could I add TTL later to it?
look at my guide for details about TTL and analogue. its part of the psu, as the psu powers the laser head. its not labby, its module. not all modules have blanking you need to check the spec.

Quote:
2.) Analogue Modulation - I'm guessing this lets you have various 'shades' of colour inbetween the On/Off of TTL. Are these really that more expensive? And again, is it a feature of the laser, or the driver circuit?
again check my guide for details. yes they are more expensive and again its the psu that controls the laser head.

Quote:
3.) When lasers (such as the Lanling ones) say TTL upto 30k, does that mean it has to match the scanning speed of the galvo's? so I could only have a max of 30k galvos? or if I had a 10k TTL laser, does it mean I can't use more than 10k
galvo's?
blanking speed is totally different to the speed of a scanner. details about blanking speed are in my guide.

Quote:
4.) What is a scanning angle? Why is it important? and why do the points per sec, change on the angle?
as it suggests scan angle is the angle in degrees in which the frame is projected. a set of galvos can scan for example 30,000 points per second at an angle of 8 degrees.

this is as fast as the galvos can go. if you make the angle bigger the galvos have a turn slightly more to make the bigger angle, get to hot and blow.

Quote:
5.) Laser show software - I can hardly find any manufacture's websites for laser sofware, I know about the pangolin one, but would something like this work well? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/iShow-Laser-Sh...QQcmdZViewItem
check my guide for details about dac's there is a list of companies who make dac's

EDIT: Found the EXACT same version (minus UK plug) on Chinese dept. store for half the price! http://www.chinesedepartmentstore.co...oducts_id/1915

Quote:
6.) Galvo's - Why is the best and cheapest place to buy a decent set? I'd love to do really detailed animation , but I know this is not possible with cheap galvo's. So what is the happy medium?
Links + Prices?
why or do you mean where? there are lots of places that sell scanners, depends if you want beam shows or animations?

Quote:
7.) I want to start off with a 1 colour system, then turn it into a RYG system and then the full blown RGB. I DON'T want to keep replacing parts, just adding more lasers! So what do you think is the best roadmap? Stick with TTL, or invest in analogue gear? or is it too expensive?
if money is a problem then laser and scanners arent for you LOL. things always go wrong, sadly ive had first hand experence. you can do what ever you want it just depends how you do things.

Quote:
8.) So for a laser scanning system that is PC controlled, I'd need the following: (please correct if wrong)

1x + laser + PSU
2x Galvo's + AMPs + PSU
1x Software
1x DAC
1x PC!
A box and some fans!
check my guide.

a laser module comes with a psu.
a scanner (galvos) come as galvo, amp and psu
a DAC should come with its own software

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Old 11-13-2007, 08:38 PM #4
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_con
http://www.laser-man.co.uk/2006/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id= 58&Itemid=66

Ahh!!! You've updated it! Fantastic!

I read it a few weeks back, and it was good then, now it's even better + much more clear.

Just out of interest, how much were you DT-40's?
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:41 PM #5
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

i have second hand original dt40 they cost me 200

now its dt40pros they are amazing and can do anything!!! cost is 300 i believe
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Old 11-13-2007, 08:56 PM #6
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

Wow! That much! Well, if there are good bits of kit, I guess they are worth it!
I REALLY want an animated scanner, I'm not arsed about beams, just the animated pics! so I'll keep at this 'project' for about a year, as I don't have that kind of cash to throw into it all at once.

Should I steer clear of the DMX galvo's from chinesedepartmentstore? They are bit cheaper!
Would the DMX be compatible with the printer port style ILDA connector?


Dan :-)
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:01 PM #7
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielbriggs
Wow! That much! Well, if there are good bits of kit, I guess they are worth it!
I REALLY want an animated scanner, I'm not arsed about beams, just the animated pics! so I'll keep at this 'project' for about a year, as I don't have that kind of cash to throw into it all at once.

Should I steer clear of the DMX galvo's from chinesedepartmentstore? They are bit cheaper!
Would the DMX be compatible with the printer port style ILDA connector?


Dan :-)
there not dmx scanners, they just come with a dmx to control the galvos. you can ust disconnect the dmx and use a dac.

well you can get 20 or 30k scanners and do animations.

for good bits of kit expect to pay

200-300 or scanners (galvos)
250-500 for DAC
then you have lasers on top say 100 for green and 50 for red and 500 for blue.

case, dichros, mirrors and mounts.

cables

there lots of expense sadly
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:10 PM #8
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

I'm really impressed with your DT-40 videos, the dolphin and the '3D' stuff is phenominal!!!

I guess this is one of those projects I'll keep at the back of my mind, should I have some spare cash. I wouldn't want to buy one, as I would have no use for it. I'd build one, just for building ones sake, if you know what I mean. Obviosuly I'd use it, but not commerically etc...

Are you the same, or do you make some money 'renting' it out? I'm sure you could make 100 min. a night by taking the box of tricks and a fog machine to a club or something.
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:33 PM #9
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

when finished i plan on doing private parties

im also going to buy a blue in 08
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:40 PM #10
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

Andy... Go for it! If you do enough parties - you may get your money back, or enough to build another! * ;D

But seriously, thanks for all your help - and to see what is achiveable is inspiring.

One last question, you stated the green/red mix should be 3:1, so why are you using 2:1? Should it be 300mW in an ideal world? However, it looks like a good yellow in the vids.... I love the 3 colour whirl!
Can the Paganlio board thing do analogue? or would you have to swap loads of bits and bobs?
Do you run it all of the smart media card? or can you plug it in via usb? Is the software anygood that comes with it?

Good luck with the blue!


Dan :-)
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Old 11-13-2007, 09:52 PM #11
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

iwould love some money back on the 1.5k ive spend so far lol

ive just had two reds dueled so i now have 400 odd mw's

most of the gud dacs do analogue and ttl. the pangolin does.

i run mine from usb ut apparently you can run it from the card, ive never tired. the software is ace, no tails of little lines on the animations.

thats how you tell a good dac and software. if you get a perfect animation with not tails then your onto a winner.

the software is extremly complex, but it can do everything you want any more

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielbriggs
Andy... Go for it! If you do enough parties - you may get your money back, or enough to build another! * ;D

But seriously, thanks for all your help - and to see what is achiveable is inspiring.

One last question, you stated the green/red mix should be 3:1, so why are you using 2:1? Should it be 300mW in an ideal world? However, it looks like a good yellow in the vids.... I love the 3 colour whirl!
Can the Paganlio board thing do analogue? or would you have to swap loads of bits and bobs?
Do you run it all of the smart media card? or can you plug it in via usb? Is the software anygood that comes with it?

Good luck with the blue!


Dan :-)
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Old 11-14-2007, 01:25 AM #12
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

lol i use my RGY for parties/school disco's etc, and it can't do animations. mainly beam shows. Although i do use stuff other than lasers ;D i sometimes get about $50 an hour, and sometimes its free, but i don't mind, its just the fun that makes me do it!
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Old 11-14-2007, 04:54 PM #13
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

Check this site out its got everything you need! http://hobby-lasers.startpagina.nl/ ;D
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:32 PM #14
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

Hi Dan, I have a scanner kit top of my christmas list....I have e-mail these people to see what delivered price to the uk is....I await a reply...

http://www.midwest-laser.com/html/co...aser_show.html

I have been looking at all the scanner kits available and this one seems to give about the best bang for the buck so far (unless someone has info that bursts my bubble).

Regards rog8811
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Old 11-14-2007, 07:55 PM #15
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

Rog! You never cease to amaze me - I know it's not the best piece of kit, for an all inclusive package (minus laser obviously) for 180!!!?!?! That's getting on for DX prices....
And through the soundcard too - cheeky but clever!

The software looks old, and is probably an emulation of the amiga one, but hey, if it works who cares?!?!!!

The only thing (apart from having no cash) stopping me from going out and buying one now is the demo photo - no TTL!!! I'm no expert on that (see above ) but I'd like to know it could make animations with line breaks, then I'm sold!

Lastly, Rog, get a quote for 2 - They may bring the price down if we ordered together.... ???
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Old 11-14-2007, 08:06 PM #16
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Default Re: Scanning Basics + Terminology etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rog8811
Hi Dan, I have a scanner kit top of my christmas list....I have e-mail these people to see what delivered price to the uk is....I await a reply...

http://www.midwest-laser.com/html/co...aser_show.html

I have been looking at all the scanner kits available and this one seems to give about the best bang for the buck so far (unless someone has info that bursts my bubble).

Regards rog8811
haha that looks mega old. i would save your money and get something better
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