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Old 02-10-2011, 09:30 AM #1
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Default 1.2W RGB- Build and worklog

So, it's started now. Yet another nooblet gets a projector build thread.

Truth be told, I'd much rather prefer not to be building this projector; I have other things that need money right now.

This projector was a result of a rushed decision during a time when it seemed like the best (and only) option, and I jumped on it. It's turned out to be much more work and worry that I'd anticipated (especially on my budget), but it still remains the only option. Hence, the April show goes on.

This forum hasn't helped much either, I've successfully made myself look like an arrogant, pretentious pr ck for trying to make a point that the only reason why people buy Pangolin's outdated hardware is because there's no other alternative. I guess the truth can be hard to swallow for fanboys.

No matter what happens, come hell or high water, this projector will be running by April.

So, what have I done so far? Not much, really. Just quite a fair bit of planning, and I've only started ordering parts yesterday.

The projector's gonna be built into a 4U eATX chassis. It's expandable, and easy to work with. It's been fine so far, and I'm happy with what it offers.



It comes with a front door, I should probably try and find the key for it.

The back has mount points for an ATX power supply and back panel. These will be replaced by sheet aluminium which will have the various receptacle ports cut out.



The interior looks something like this (well, that's what I've got planned out):



Speaking of components, I've so far ordered the red laser (CNI 500mW 650 unit), the galvos, and the DMX controller. DAC and optics are also on their way, as well as the parts for the control system.

EDIT:

Stuff that's been ordered/bought/on their way to my house so far:

SpaceLas PT-30K Galvos (and the PT-ITRUST player card. Oh dear)
RIYA Multibus Lite (It's a cable! No, wait, it's a DAC! It's both!)

220mW faux-analog green (I already have this, and have no plans to replace the driver yet. It's gonna be a sucker to re-tune the TEC driver, hence)
500mW CNI 655nm Analog module (OEM)
445nm diode and FlexMod P3 (because paying for an OEM module is silly :P)
O-Like dichros and LaserWave mounts

Hardware for controller and interlock system

This just leaves the baseplate, as well as a couple of boxes of screws.



Last edited by goninanbl00d; 02-13-2011 at 10:04 AM.
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Old 02-10-2011, 09:52 AM #2
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Default Re: Oh dear, it's started, and now there's no stopping it.

Looks Good keep us updated.
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:21 AM #3
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Default Re: 1.2W RGB- Build and worklog

If I were you, I'd adjust the layout so as not to require the mirror, but that's just me.
It's certainly a nice and roomy case, have fun transporting that :P
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:44 AM #4
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Default Re: 1.2W RGB- Build and worklog

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Originally Posted by MoonShadow View Post
If I were you, I'd adjust the layout so as not to require the mirror, but that's just me.
It's certainly a nice and roomy case, have fun transporting that :P
Post-upgrade and completion, it should look something like this:



Hence why the optics train is bent around the outer perimeter of the baseplate, instead of taking the more direct route to the galvos.

Without the mirror, I'd need to cut a hole in the side of the chassis for the aperture, and that'd make it look, well, terrible.

Also, I've found someone to give me a lift to and from any gigs. So, problem solved. Because carrying that thing onto a bus is a big no-no. I have enough trouble with a kitbag, let alone with a full-blown rackmount projector.
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Old 02-10-2011, 12:30 PM #5
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Default Re: 1.2W RGB- Build and worklog

if you think pangolin is outdated your on another planet!!

pangolin are the leaders
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:24 PM #6
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Default Re: 1.2W RGB- Build and worklog

oh dear...

take it from someone who isnt new -

Laser Shows Provided by lazershows.co.uk
www.laser-man.co.uk

pangolin are the best.

Last edited by daguin; 02-10-2011 at 03:45 PM.
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Old 02-10-2011, 01:47 PM #7
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Default Re: 1.2W RGB- Build and worklog

how much was the red laser module you ordered?
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Old 02-10-2011, 10:40 PM #8
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Default Re: 1.2W RGB- Build and worklog

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Originally Posted by andy_con View Post
oh dear...

take it from someone who isnt new -

Laser Shows Provided by lazershows.co.uk
www.laser-man.co.uk

pangolin are the best.
Their software is the best in the industry, I'll give them that. LivePRO, for example, is the only comprehensive software for running a live show.

The fact that their software is the best in the industry is partly a result of their hardware. Speaking of their hardware, and I quote:

Quote:
What a fooking disaster
How long has the FB3 been in existence? And how many refreshes has it had in that time? 3. All refreshes to reduce cost, or to replace hardware that is no longer available. It only costs $80 in parts at most. It wouldn't be too much to ask for more functionality somewhere down the line, given how long it's been in existence.

But the FB3 is doing well for itself, it represents better value than other software packages such as Phoenix Live. Same price, much better performance, not to mention ease-of-use.

The QM2000, however, is a 10-year-old PCI card that uses what was a high-end processor and memory system...

...from 10 years ago.

It hasn't seen any hardware refresh in the past 10 years of it's existance. It still uses single-bank SDRAM, which you can only get from them. It was common 10 years ago, it's an obsolete standard now. Yet another way for them to make absurd amounts of money on obsolete components.

That's the least of your worries, though. If you've been following computers lately, you'd have notced that PCI is on it's way out. And when PCI does disappear in a few years, they have no contingency plan.

Well, they do, in the form of the QM2000.net. And what is it? A $600 proprietary box, with a PCI backplane.

You can get backplanes for around $20; just go to an electronics manufacturer in China. And once you start mass-producing them, it gets even cheaper. And how much would the box and CD drive cost?

You're paying for nothing more than a logo and a customised backplane.

They can justify the cost of the LD2000 system through the software it comes bundled with, but the .NET enclosure has no excuse. And selling it as the contingency plan once PCI goes obsolete?

The only reason why the QM2000 still sells (and is the 'market leader') is because there's no other alternative on the market. Nor is there any software at the level of what they offer, hence, the best, and only option is Pangolin. You really don't have a choice. You want live software that does everything for you? LivePRO. There's no other alternative. Can you find another in-system laser controller with such a wide range of software support? No.

So the 'market leader' bit is really a lie, because in a one-horse race you can only have one winner.

It's a bit like the Intel and AMD analogy. If AMD didn't exist, Intel would still be charging us $1000 for a 5 year old entry-level CPU, justifying it by saying 'it's enough'.

Oh, yeah, like the Intel and AMD analogy, you also have the fanboys who defend their godly company every time someone even tries so much as to make a point about them. Last time I made this point on the public forum, I had all my posts deleted after it turned into a shit-slinging contest. Don't we all love fanboyism? Level-headed thinking may or may not be too much to ask for.

Competition is a good thing, but it's hard when a company has patents on everything and your mother. There's simply been no room, or point, in developing a similar hardware solution (in-PC, along with comprehensive software suite) from scratch, simply because half the stuff is already patented.

We'd all like to see competition. But there's no other options out there. And until we begin to see some real competition, then we'll keep seeing the monopoly we see now.

All we need now is a strong alternative to both the (extremely) outdated hardware platform (consider this- computer hardware is considered 'old' by the one-year mark, and after 3-4 years, is considered obsolete), and software to match it. That's somewhat tricky when a company owns patents on a good load of the proprietary algorithms, most of which have only one simple method of implementation.

Well, that's just my opinion. Flame me to death, eat me alive. I wouldn't be surprised if it did happen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by borgqueenx View Post
how much was the red laser module you ordered?
$260, for 500mW of CNI 655nm. Not a bad deal.

Last edited by goninanbl00d; 02-11-2011 at 04:40 AM.
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:39 AM #9
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Default Re: 1.2W RGB- Build and worklog

you call this dated?

YouTube - Qlimax 2009 Trailer HD

if it aint broke dont fix it
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Old 02-11-2011, 07:50 AM #10
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Default Re: 1.2W RGB- Build and worklog

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy_con View Post

if it aint broke dont fix it
I still own a few 486 machines that work fine. There was nothing wrong with the 486 generation of processors.

Now, if Intel lived off the same motto, we'd be using said 486 processors today. They still work fine, don't they? What's wrong with that, then? And of course, Intel would still be selling them at $1000 a pop.

Same logic here.

It's been 10 whole years, maybe more. Some innovation in this time would have been appreciated. You'd think at least some of the money would go back into R&D.

We're not asking for much, rather, would a hardware refresh every few years (to try and keep up to date) be too much to ask for?

And because there's been no real competition since RIYA discontinued their series of card-based controllers (not to mention they didn't have any adequate software to go with them either), Pangolin have managed to sell the same old, outdated hardware over the years without being challenged.

The good thing about competition is you get innovation from everyone involved, and the increased performance/features/functionality only benefits us, the users. Look what happens in the computer, mobile phone, and gadget markets. If they were all run by monopolistic companies, well, we'd still be stuck with the same old crap from 10 years ago, being sold at outrageous prices, under the premise "if it aint broke dont fix it "

And like I said, it's far from bad. But it could do with improvement, and the time has come for said improvement.

We demand improvements when it comes to other consumer goods and improvements, I'm sure you would be extremely angry if all the big companies stopped developing new products, instead, only sold their existing products at the prices you would expect from goods new to the market.

I don't see why this should be any different. Sure, it's good. But it could be better. Why stop now- why not go further? Everything can be improved; nothing is perfect. So why accept this overpriced, outdated hardware when it can, and should be better?

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