questions about the Hercules and the RPL

I've got some questions about Optotronics' RPL and LaserGlow's Hercules lasers.

I've noticed that the Hercules uses a fan instead of TEC to cool itself. Does this mean that the Hercules would be very loud? Also, this photo shows that the Hercules uses a piece of cut wire as the safety interlock. That doesn't look very professional, IMO.

For the RPL, it seems that both the adjustable and non-adjustable have advantages and disadvantages. For example, the adjustable version is more compact, lighter, and gives users more control, but the non-adjustable version is safer and doesn't require a flat-head screwdriver.

Will both tail caps fit with the same laser? If so, it would be nice to have both tail caps. It's something Optotronics should consider.

Finally, are the blue RPLs adjustable or non-adjustable (or both)?

never owned a hercules so dont know tbh, as for the RPL both tailcaps should fit, and currently only the non-adjustable model is available for the RPL Blue.

Maybe consider asking pseudonomen137. He knows quite a bit about RPLs & sells them significantly cheaper than Optotronics. No offense Jack

Hi BlueFusion,
No offense taken.

We will beat the price hands down with any other retail website offering an identical product or even a clone, provided the following conditions are met.

1. The retailer must have the equivalent item in stock and available for immediate shipment.

2. They individually test and provide the buyer with the measured output power of their portable laser products.

3. The sale price includes the same or comparable accessories (batteries, charger and any other offerings).

4. The cost of any (forum / special) discounts, free specials, warranties and shipping is taken into consideration.

5. The items are new (not used) and the retail website is provided to us for verification.

If payment is planned by cash, money order or Google Checkout(in 2007), we will beat the competition's price by 5%.

If payment is made with or through Paypal we will beat the competition's price by 2.5%

We buy in rather large quantities and no one in the world keeps a larger supply in stock than Optotronics and we will not be undersold. We even supply several other retailers around the world.

I know that no retailers are offering a 1 year warranty as Optotronics does, so our offer to beat their price will still apply however our product will be sold with the same warranty period as the product pricing of which we are beating.

This policy will be updated to the Optotronics website tomorrow, but is in affect from right now. We also reserve the right to withdraw this offer at any time depending on market conditions.


Thanks
Jack

ixfd64 said:

I've got some questions about Optotronics' RPL and LaserGlow's Hercules lasers.

I've noticed that the Hercules uses a fan instead of TEC to cool itself. Does this mean that the Hercules would be very loud? Also, this photo shows that the Hercules uses a piece of cut wire as the safety interlock. That doesn't look very professional, IMO.

For the RPL, it seems that both the adjustable and non-adjustable have advantages and disadvantages. For example, the adjustable version is more compact, lighter, and gives users more control, but the non-adjustable version is safer and doesn't require a flat-head screwdriver.

Will both tail caps fit with the same laser? If so, it would be nice to have both tail caps. It's something Optotronics should consider.

Finally, are the blue RPLs adjustable or non-adjustable (or both)?

Click to expand...

Hi ixfd64,
Your right, we should offer both caps and we will beginning tomorrow.
We recently were given the option ourselves of getting both style tail caps.
For now, this will only be available on new orders placed after tomorrow. We don't have enoguh tail caps in stock to provide every customer who has purchased an RPL previously, but those who have can email us and let us know they want the extra tail cap and we'll put them on the list for our order being placed next week.

The cost will be $12 when purchased with the laser or $15 + shipping if purchased separately.

The RPL blue can be purchased this way as well, but since the blue outputs much less power, an adjustable tailcap may not be that important.

Thanks
Jack

Great news about tail cap Jack!

Ok, the Hercules dosn't really make any sound as such. It is more of an almost unnoticable vibration, it's really hard to explain. But unless you are concentrating hard on any noise or vibration it makes you don't even know it has a fan. Hope that made sense. The safety dongle, I think, is designed to be attached to you so if you lose control of the laser, or god forbid drop it, it will turn off before blinding yourself. The wires could easily be trimmed back and joined closer to the plug if you wanted to.

Wow, that's great news!

From what I hear, the RPL is supposed to be the second version of the PPL. The only thing that some people not like about it is that it uses "18650" batteries instead of "C" ones. "C" batteries are more common and can hold up to about 6,600 mAh of charge, while "18650" batteries can only hold up to about 2,600 mAh.

ixfd64 said:

Wow, that's great news!

From what I hear, the RPL is supposed to be the second version of the PPL. The only thing that some people not like about it is that it uses "18650" batteries instead of "C" ones. "C" batteries are more common and can hold up to about 6,600 mAh of charge, while "18650" batteries can only hold up to about 2,600 mAh.

Click to expand...

Hi ixfd64,
It's true, the RPL is the 2nd generation of the PPL and as such has many improvments; larger, higher quality crystal a 2.5W diode vs. the 1.2W diode on the PPL. The 18650 cell is really a big improvement over the alkaline C cells. The typical alkaline C cell that is readily bought in the store (duracell or energizer) is only 1400 mAh, so two of them produce on 1400mah at 3V and the alkalines are not designed for this kind of high current application and output power will drop considerable after only a few minutes of use on alkaline cells. The best Nimh C cells I know of are 6000mah, but maybe 6600 is available now. These 6000+ mAh nimh are very good, but your not going to find them any easier than the 18650 (need to go online). As far as battery performance, the 6000mAh nimh cells in a PPL will work for about the same amount of time as the 18650 does in the RPL.
Here's e a link showing the performance of the 6000 mAh Nimh cell vs. a Duracell alkaline on the Optotronics website.
http://www.optotronics.com/Battery.php

Jack

bootleg2go said:

It's true, the RPL is the 2nd generation of the PPL and as such has many improvments; larger, higher quality crystal a 2.5W diode vs. the 1.2W diode on the PPL.
Jack

Click to expand...

*2.0W diode. Since you're now directly in touch with the manufacturer, you may want to ask and get some of the mistakes on your site revised such as the diode power and duty cycle. It would definitely help restore some of the respect I once had for optotronics.

The RPLs pump diodes are only 2W? If that's the case, I'd like to see true 2.5W diodes. We can have >600 mW RPLs that can compete with LaserGlow's Hercules lasers.

Measuring the raw IR from my dissected RPL I've seen as high as 2.4W on the 9 level.

1=500mw 2=1.1 3=1.4 4=1.8 etc etc.. little hops all the way up.

Tweaked ( no changing of current just crystal alignments ) I got over 500mw of green out of my RPL.. Right now though it's taken apart again.

pseudonomen137 said:

[quote author=bootleg2go link=1194907820/0#8 date=1195058174]
It's true, the RPL is the 2nd generation of the PPL and as such has many improvments; larger, higher quality crystal a 2.5W diode vs. the 1.2W diode on the PPL.
Jack

Click to expand...

*2.0W diode. Since you're now directly in touch with the manufacturer, you may want to ask and get some of the mistakes on your site revised such as the diode power and duty cycle. It would definitely help restore some of the respect I once had for optotronics. [/quote]

Pseudo,
How can you be so sure Optotronic current RPL diodes are not 2.5W. Do you have special friend inside VIASHO. Since you are also selling same product now, I'd like more insight on IT.
I'm not claiming anything as I'm just user and can't afford to test my RPL as thoroughly as Aseras can. I'm asking since you seem to be so sure about all this RPL stuff.

And how is it that you loose your respect for Opto suddenly now that you started selling RPL model as well?

no disrespect, just curious.

pseudonomen137 said:

[quote author=bootleg2go link=1194907820/0#8 date=1195058174]
It's true, the RPL is the 2nd generation of the PPL and as such has many improvments; larger, higher quality crystal a 2.5W diode vs. the 1.2W diode on the PPL.
Jack

Click to expand...

*2.0W diode. Since you're now directly in touch with the manufacturer, you may want to ask and get some of the mistakes on your site revised such as the diode power and duty cycle. It would definitely help restore some of the respect I once had for optotronics. [/quote]

Here's the scoop Carter,
When I was dealing with my "old manufacturer", who was actually just a distributor; we had some issues right in the beginning with PPL reliability. I was told that if I were to pay extra for the better made and higher power nlight diode rather than the chinese made diode that was being used. This improved the reliability a great deal. When the RPL prototypes were being made, I told them I wanted them made with the n-light diode and would pay more for it. It was too late to change the prototypes being sent to me, but they would get the change into all production RPLs sent to me.
This has been in every RPL I gotten, or so I've been told. I have one that is partially disassembled and I'll do a tear down of it and see if I can get a part number other wise I was being overcharged.

Now to the present,
I am growing a great relationship with Viasho (the original manufacturer of the RPL).
A couple months ago they contacted me (I had tried contacting them about a year ago and they wouldn't sell them to me directly as they didn't have FDA accession numbers on RPL.) When Viasho contacted me in September, they must have known that my distribution agreement with my previous supplier had just expired as they told me they had an agreement as well that had expired and were interested in finding a sole source north american distributor for their products. No agreement has been signed for a long term deal, for now it's just a verbal agreement.

I received my 1st order from viasho on Friday, the RPL-blue lasers in this order have a new / better diode in them for sure as they told me that these would have an addition cost of $80 each for this higher powered diode. I did a quick test on the blue RPLs and they are much better than before and without any IR leakage.
I'm not going to tear down any of the new RPL green lasers in this order as they are all new and working, but I will talk with Viasho tonight to confirm all this and find out if the correct diode was used for this green build.

If this was why you were mad at me, you could have just contacted me offline or early and just said what the deal was. I don't try to deceive anyone, ever, I was told the diode that they were being built with from Lambda photonics and I had no reason to believe otherwise as quality improved right after the changes were made. In any case, every laser has performed up to and beyond it rated power level and that's whats most important.

I'll post here what I find out from Viasho and change any specs if needed on these newer RPLs. I do know that the manufacturer only specs divergence as being less than 1.2mrad, but I spec it tighter as I don't let any go to customers that are outside of my specs and this spec won't be changed.

btw, the latest order looks fantastic.
I just got a Class IV RPL (not done testing them all yet so there may be more) it averaged 524mW with the non-adjustable tail cap and 538mW with the adjustable tailcap on current level 6. This was based on a 3 minute sample after a 20-30 second warm up. The only thing is didn't believe it and thought some IR might be involved, so I did a quick test with the laser check as it goes way high when it gets any IR. I put my lasercheck in the beam path and before the 2 second lasercheck sample was taken, a bright spot flashed on the attenuator and it fried a small hole through the attenuator and may have ruined it...at least I'm pretty sure it's ruined on that section of the lasercheck window. I'll see if I can get a macro shot of the lasercheck and post it.

Jack

I'm sorry but I'm a bit confused. If Lambda deceived you, I'm sorry and that obviously isn't your fault. However, the rest of your message reads as if you only just started getting RPL Blue units that actually match the 2.5W spec your website has been saying for a good year now.

I also am a bit bothered by your comment about duty cycle. You state 5 minutes on, 2 off on full power. As you know, I placed an order a few weeks back and sold a few of these units at discount. During the process, I had to explain to many disappointed customers that the 5 min on/2min off duty cycle claim was simply wrong. I like having to call BS on optotronics like that, but I really didn't have any option. That's the same problem I have with the diode problem. 2W or 2.5, as long as it meets output I could care less. Having to explain to potential clients that optotronics is wrong though. That disappoints me and it disappoints the customer.

Back to duty cycle though. Neither Viasho nor Lambda, both of whom I've asked, have quoted duty cycle figures even remotely near that appealing. I've seen units that would meet a 5 min on 2 min off spec, but also plenty that wouldn't - especially if you're now getting these higher power green and blue units, both of which we know still have the inadequate heatsinking problem. Its just.... troubling to me as someone who once put great trust in your company. On the whole, optotronics is still much better than places like WL, and the RPLs are a great buy - especially at these reduced prices. However, it sure would be nice to see your products advertised more accurately, and perhaps a little less stifling of fair competition with the counterfeit RPL/WL is buying all my lasers paranoia.

Milos/Aseras. Its possible I was led astray I guess - I was told 2W by Viasho. Perhaps they are overdriven, or perhaps I have the wrong information. In any case, admittedly I just exploited the diode comment to jump in about some other stuff that was bothering me such as the duty cycle comment on optotronics. There are a few other things that bother me about optotronics too, but they aren't relevant to the RPL product so I will refrain from posting them here out of respect to the RPL line. Please PM me if you'd like to discuss it in private. Last time I said that, I got a whole lot of complaining, but not a lot of PMs. Perhaps we can avoid that this time around? :-/

ixfd64 - The RPLs can be made with diode/crystal sets to meet 500mW+ output levels. For the time being though, the heatsinking cannot handle it. Already the RPL 300s have difficulty with runtime and can't be run CW at full power though, so that's probably the biggest stumbling block when it comes to higher powers.