Old 04-17-2017, 07:43 AM #1
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Question Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

Dear fellow laserists,

although I have two 532 nm lasers (one at 100 mW and one 800 mW), I'm amazed by a new Optotronics dilda. In deed I'm looking at their products for a several years now. I've also read propably all reviews on their RPL series here stating that their lasers are the best you can get in portables. The only negatives I noticed vere the tunable tailcap key solution.



(RPL II should be similar, just dimensions are a bit different.)


Check their offer in this link: Optotronics RPL Portable Green Lasers

Regarding beam specs - this should be more accurate for this dilda than data in link above: Laser divergence

Not only beams but also the prices are from different planet what I've seen. For 1.4+ W version they ask 1.5 kilo bucks. Considering common overspec issues with their lasers I expect this beast will do over 1.5 W and when cooled enough likely even more, maybe up to 2 W? All we can say the price is about 1 buck per 1 mW, what could be considered as very high end for 532 nm DPSS portable.

I would like to have this piece of art in my laser collection and to use it for my laserpaintings of course. I can imagine how I would use such a power of this DPSS laser in painting of quite remote areas of scene (where just a little of light returns to camera lens), and for example spreading the beam via kind cylindric lenses to get large flat surface iluminating large area of scene and creatig even more surreal look of my paintings. Check links in my signature to get the idea if you are not sure what I mean by laserpainting.

Yes I can do it with 520 nm diode but even with my 800 mW 532 nm laser, but this power and beam specs are exceptional for portable green laser and especially for DPSS the power is just insane. Not only power, but also beamspecs matters, that is what attracts me to this laser. Much more possibilities can be opened with it in my endless artistic apettite.

Although I asked Jack for some of the questions below and I know some of the answers already, I would like to know also the opinions and experience from members here.

Does anybody of you have some experience with this particular laser? What about beam specs? Duty cycle? Is it worth the money? Is it possible to mount some optics on it easily? I'll appreciate not only experience, but opinions as well.

I know there exist also Jet Lasers 532 nm 800 mW portable laser (likely the second best alternative), but the beam specs of it are not as great as of Optotronics dilda, which is even much more power.

Thank you very much.

Radim


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Last edited by Radim; 04-17-2017 at 08:20 AM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 09:13 AM #2
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
Dear fellow laserists,

although I have two 532 nm lasers (one at 100 mW and one 800 mW), I'm amazed by a new Optotronics dilda.

Not only beams but also the prices are from different planet what I've seen. For 1.4+ W version they ask 1.5 kilo bucks. Considering common overspec issues with their lasers I expect this beast will do over 1.5 W and when cooled enough likely even more, maybe up to 2 W? All we can say the price is about 1 buck per 1 mW, what could be considered as very high end for 532 nm DPSS portable.

I know there exist also Jet Lasers 532 nm 800 mW portable laser (likely the second best alternative), but the beam specs of it are not as great as of Optotronics dilda, which is even much more power.

Thank you very much.

Radim
I think those prices are from times long ago:
300mW $848
450mW $1258
1400mW $1500

1400mW is not that much brighter than 1W.
brightness increase ≈ √(P2/P1 so
1400mW is √(1400/1000) = 1.18 times brighter than a 1W and
1400mW is √(1400/800) = 1.32 times brighter than 800mW
Not sure you or cameras are going to see a big difference between 1W and 1.4W.

Jetlaser can make you a 1W 532nm on request ---the divergence spec is about 2 mRad but JetLasers 532nm but they can do better on request and the divergence of the Opto is 1 mRad
beam diameter of 1.5mm for the Opto and 1.3mm for the JL

Is up to you --if you have to have it for a real and functional reason the Optotronics unit it is the only 1.4 W anyone offers, if not then all it gives you is bragging rights. Keep in mind Opto does not offer any refunds if not happy and want to return only store credit.
Jetlaser does offer refunds normally not sure about special order units like a higher output lower divergence unit--probably not.

Optotronics does offer very good/great quality products and stands behind them---that is their reputation

Last edited by Encap; 04-18-2017 at 06:23 AM.
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Old 04-17-2017, 11:05 AM #3
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

I've enjoyed my Optronics 450mW 532nm for years.

Good quality, IMHO.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:05 PM #4
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

Thanks, Encap.

I'm aware about these brightness calculations. However if I consider use of optics like diffraction grating or beam splitter etc. the situation is a bit different. Let's take beam splitter for example, assuming it separates the beam into two in 50:50 (omitting losses on BS), than we got 2 beams 700 mW each, which, if I'm right, gives me sense to get more power as these might illuminate the scene more than single beam of 1.4 W (resp. more brightness). And basically it gives similar (a little less of course) results in brightness as two of my 800 mW rated. I assume two beams of half of power go through more air volume, than single beam at full power, it scatters more on dust, air molecules and other stuff in the air and thus appearing more bright in total.
Do I miss something in these thought?

Also another reason (as specified in my previous post) is to illuminate remote areas with dot - imagine it like up to about 100 meters (or about 300 feet) far where reflected light is not very sufficient and a very long exposure is needed (and with very long exposure I get a lot of light pollution on pics as well). This could be done not only due to power, but also better divergence, my Sky Lasers (or Laser btb if you like) unit has about 2 mrad (and 2 mm beam diameter at aperture). Basically I would like to deliver on this distance enough power in tiny point and deal with that there - reflect it from something, spread to illuminate an object there etc. Basically the beam should be on pic as well therefore it does not make sense to bring laser there.

And there are even more. Basically I believe it will open me more possibilities and will allow me to have larger painted scene as I will be able to fill it with some light.

I think with camera it is not much different from human eye, however it depends on many conditions, but in general (what is often not my example), the camera should be similar.

It might be worth to ask Jet Lasers as well, but I'm not sure if the beamspecs can beat Opto. For RPL II I consider divergence of 1.2 mrad (according to Jack), not 1 mrad as mentioned for lower powers. With JL there is divergence 2 mrad in lower power models, what is huge difference and for higher powers it could be expected to be more. Or are they able to do something with divergence on custom demand? I might ask Gray as we are in touch, but I do not want to take much of his and his team's time as they seem very busy with orders.

The beam diameter is important as well although not that much as divergence - only if we speak about something like 1.3-1.5 mm I consider both as reasonable since they are quite a lot below 2 mm. It makes sense for me in near field, where thin beam just looks better (consider scattering adding some to size as well).


And thanks Alaskan, nice comparsion. Very valuable also for the others considering high power DPSS greenie. JL and Opto seems to be 2 best candidates for such a selection.

I was just writing my answer to Encap. As I mentioned above the divergence should be 1.2 mrad for RPL II, still better than JL. And duty cycle 3 mins and 3 mins off. This I have from my earlier communication with Jack. However according to my experience duty cycle in real conditions might vary a lot, if it is cold (like 15 deg Celsius) for example I can easily (after warm up to operating temp) keep my DPSS lasers running longer than specified duty cycle without any visible power drop or beam changes like mode hopping. The environment temperature is sufficient to keep it cooled and I think nominal duty cycle is set with some reserve and mainly at temperature about 25 deg Celsius (not occuring too often in night in my area, when I perform laserpaintings). Anyway in case there is any visible change and/or I recognize it is warmer than usuall I switch it off to cool down and to prevent any damage.

The most sensitive to temperature from my DPSS lasers seems to be 473 nm, but it is much more stable than I expected to be honest.
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Old 04-17-2017, 12:42 PM #5
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

Well, there's a minus then, Jack should clearly indicate on his web specs page it is 1.2 mRad, that is not what I'm seeing online, boo. I based all my calculations (even if an online calc.) on his web page!

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Old 04-17-2017, 01:12 PM #6
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

I also mentioned it to Jack earlier in my response. If you check divergence page, they say all their RPLs are 1.2 mrad. Not sure if the modules or something changed during the time as they reached 1 mrad and below and divergence page remained not updated. But it seems they are too busy with orders now, also Jack mentioned it. Some sections of optotronics webpage does not work at all - site map for example. The webpage does not seem to be main selling channel IMO. Likely they are contacted directly by universities etc.

But for that power and beam diameter, 1.2 mrad divergence is very good IMO. Especially for portable laser it is something exceptional. Check some labbies and they are like 1.5 mrad for such powers and often with beam diameter around 2 mm. I think the divergence of RPL II will be much better in reality, I suppose 1.0 or 1.1 mrad.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:14 PM #7
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

While 1.2 is good, my whole attraction was his specification of 1.0 or lower mRad. Otherwise I'm not nearly as interested any more. That would change if he made a good mechanically stable beam expander for it and dropped his price down a few notches. For 1500 dollars, it better be 1 mRad or under for my money because I'm a divergence nut! For most though, they won't care it is a couple tenths higher or more.

Now I see why his tiny beam diameter and low mRad were the best I could find, no one makes that powerful of a pointer with a .9 mRad divergence at that small of a beam diameter, not even them, it was simply a web page which needs updating. Although, for the power, I don't think I will find another manufacturer making a DPSS pointer with 1.2 mRad either! I'm just a bit miffed he hasn't made the mRad spec clear on his web page, I am sure that is where he does most of his business from.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:52 PM #8
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

To add: These 1 mrad and below are IMO for lower powers only. Update issue since 1.4 W version has been added quite recently. If you consider RPL II is three times more power than the highest RPL, the divergence below 1 mrad might be not realistic (?) for portable unit and given output diameter. Would be nice if Jack commented it as he would be the one with most knowledge about these lasers.
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Old 04-17-2017, 01:55 PM #9
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

Yea, I'm softening my stance now, they are still the lowest divergence for the high power (edit: in a pointer) you can find, I believe.
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"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 04-18-2017, 12:15 AM #10
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

Hi Everyone,
I need to make some comments to clear a few things things up on the RPL/RPLII and let everyone know what's going on as there are very few hobbyists with the RPLII. Only one forum member as far as I know and I'm not sure if he still even visits here or not; so a review may be hard to come by.
2. They are not for hobbyists and even thought they have been in production for about 3 years. All have gone for professional use except for one to the close friend/forum member who does some of my product photography (see RPL above). pretty much all others have gone to farmers for geese control, government wildlife agencies for who knows what and maritime security companies for piracy prevention.

3. they do have a reduced duty cycle and I need to update that as soon as I can time with my web developer (who use to be me, but it's gotten more adding a completely new category unless I just drop the old RPL all together and use it's specs sheet and just modify it. Duty cycle is only 60 seconds max (to save diode life as this thing is super bright compared to the old RPL series and makes lots of internal heat). Divergence is ~1.2mrad. Also the RPLII is also a high power dazzler just by holding the button down which is good for marine protection from piracy

About the RPL now:
A few years back when cheap and very powerful 445nm laser appeared in the forum both home made and from wicked with diode harvested from LCD projectors, it made the demand drop for the RPL as a large percentage of buyers where hobbyists and high power combined with low price of these blue units were important than beam quality (except to universities who needed a round TEM00 beam with low divergence). After a couple years, the lower sale of the RPL due to this market change forced our supplier to increase diode price considerably as we were getting them in much small quantities as well as the best crystals going into the lab units. I can still get RPL made in black up to 375mw, but the days of the 400 to 500 are gone as well as the 0.9mrad divergence....so if you have one of those old units, treat it gentle as are very rare now. For the price the RPL 350 and 375 sell for now, best is about 1.1 to 1.2mrad (page will be updated soon to reflect this. They can still be made in silver if a company or group order 10 or more at a time as otherwise the machining setup & costs are too high.

I hope this explains why all these RPLs are out of stock outside of the ones show which can be ordered with delivery in 2-3 weeks.
I will contact the forum member who has one of these units and see if he will post some nice pictures and give his honest opinion on them. He did not get this unit for free, as I think that sways reviewers to always post glaring nice reviews. What happened in his case is that his RPL500 failed while under warranty at the time when these became harder to produce due to diode and crystal pricing and the best crystals and diode going into lab systems. I sent him one of the first RPLII units (maybe 3 years ago) to use while his RPL was being repaired and we could not get the power of it back to 500mw, so I sent him the RPLII to use meantime and take photos of when I was ready to list them on the site. I'm busy with taxes as well as a major surgery recovery on my kidney, so I don't have time for many answers to questions, but had to let let everyone know and I will contact the forum to give his opinion in this thread.
Thanks and sorry if I rambled on
Jack
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Old 04-18-2017, 12:50 AM #11
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

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Originally Posted by bootleg2go View Post
Hi Everyone,


about 1.1 to 1.2mrad (page will be updated soon to reflect this.


Jack
I've got a question that you might know the answer to.
It concerns divergence values. Why are they 532nm predominantly in the range above? I have my own thoughts why.
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Old 04-18-2017, 06:57 AM #12
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

Thanks Jack for your comment here. Very appreciated. It's a pitty you cannot get back to below 1 mrad high powered lasers, even the RPLs. And thank you for update of your webpage related to RPL II. Unfortunately duty cycle of 60 seconds in cold temperatures is pretty low for my purposes. If I set up the beam as static for desired composition in my laserpainting, focus camera and start the exposure it takes at least one minute according to my experience. Maybe some remote control might help to keep laser steady without ruining the painting. Hard decision...
Maybe the larger heatsink possibly with TEC and two 18650 batts in host would do the job to have longer duty cycle, but I guess it is a lot of development for just a few units sold. I believe some people here would be interested, even universities and other institutions. However still I'm not sure if this is enough demand to move above break point of this project in reasonable time.

I mentioned it earlier on LPF, that it became to be more power the better regardless the beam specs unfortunatelly. I say yes, the more power the better, but with great beam specs, which should be more priority for true laserists. It cannot beat the power of diodes nowadays reaching crazy 7 W in portables, but still over 1 W of 532 nm with TEM00 beam below 1.5 mm at aperture and 1.2 mrad (but not negative ) is exceptional and seems to be just not available in portable unit (yet?).

And I personally like more black finish. And even dazzler funcion is usefull - especially if I consider piracy and I personally know some people who love sailing (not only by shore and safe areas) and could have it for these cases. Maybe you could promote your product for these purposes on yachting forums, magazines etc. to get more demand on this kind of lasers.

Any chance that some RPL like 450 or even 500 as you mentioned will return? And even with divergence of 1 mrad and below? That would be also a nice option if duty cycle is reasonable.
I'm looking forward for more info also about RPL II.

And finally best of luck with your recovery. Health issues should have the highest priority.
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:16 AM #13
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

I've always said their products are high end, specs even better than Laserglow pointers which are also high end, although I like the 100% duty cycle of the Laserglow Hercules, you will pay even more for that and they don't make one at 1.4 watts of DPSS.
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Old 04-18-2017, 08:52 AM #14
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

$2842 discounted price for 800 mW peak? No, thanks... That is not reasonable even with 100 % duty cycle. The beam specs does not seem to approve that price IMO. Opto or JL seems much better choice to me. However there is a LED showing high temperature warning according to pics - usefull.

Still there might be some DIY external cooling added to prolong the duty cycle. I still consider it for summer nights, where the temperature might be limit for usual laserpainting times (let's say I might need even 20 mins of duty cycle in some cases). It will be my first summer with serious laserpainting art, so let's see.

BTW also I'm not sure what is true on rumors that Laserglow is not good company anymore. Likely because of the price of their products. I have no experience with them, so I cannot say... I just read it here.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:17 AM #15
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
$2842 discounted price for 800 mW peak? No, thanks... That is not reasonable even with 100 % duty cycle. The beam specs does not seem to approve that price IMO. Opto or JL seems much better choice to me. However there is a LED showing high temperature warning according to pics - usefull.

Still there might be some DIY external cooling added to prolong the duty cycle. I still consider it for summer nights, where the temperature might be limit for usual laserpainting times (let's say I might need even 20 mins of duty cycle in some cases). It will be my first summer with serious laserpainting art, so let's see.

BTW also I'm not sure what is true on rumors that Laserglow is not good company anymore. Likely because of the price of their products. I have no experience with them, so I cannot say... I just read it here.
Radim,

Have you considered a lab laser? I know it seems strange but it seems like it might suit you, honestly. You wouldn't have to worry about duty cycles and can easily get 1W's of 532 from them no problem. Below is a good seller on eBay which stocks some 1W 532 lab lasers:

New CNI 1000mw 532nm green laser Diode ANALOG for lighting show laser display | eBay

One word of warning however. This particular model is the MGL-H so beam quality is less of concern when compared to the more expensive units as this is mostly for projection purposes. Beam type is TEM01, not TEM00, but it's possibly the darn best deal you'd get for 1W of 532!

-Alex
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Last edited by Hap; 04-18-2017 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 04-18-2017, 09:30 AM #16
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Default Re: Optotronics RPL-II 532 nm +1400 mW - opinions and experience?

Yes, I did, Alex. I was even amazed by your recent offer. But I need something in portable host to allow me to use it outside with high versatility, therefore even just module with external battery pack supply is not suitable as it is quite bulky. My dream is to get something like 1 W labby at 532 nm, but SLM with long temporal coherence length to do some holography of large objects like size of car or room. There is a nice video on YT. Maybe even pulsed to get holograms of living objects. But these beasts cost fortune even at powers in order of hundreds mW.

And since I discovered laserpainting and became addict on it and spending nights in the forest, my preference changed to collect portables which might open me more possibilities. Once you try to do some laser art you cannot stop. It is a real drug IMO. It is dangerous, costs money, takes your free time and mind.

Edit: And thanks a lot for your suggestion.
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Last edited by Radim; 04-18-2017 at 09:39 AM.
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