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Old 04-03-2017, 06:45 AM #1
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Default Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

A troll came in here and asked which laser goes the furthest, I took quite a bit of time answering him to have every thread he created today deleted, due to showing he was no doubt, 100% troll breathed.

Not to have my work go to waste, I'm reposting for the newbies. Sometimes I will answer a newbie I suspect might be a troll because the information could be useful to others new to the hobby, so I'm reposting my thoughts here. Was able to recapture the text by back arrowing my viewed web pages, fortunately:

Which laser can go a further distance?

They all can go the same distance, it's the power density at distance which matters, that is directly related to both power and divergence. In general, if you stick with DPSS lasers they will have decent divergence, diode lasers usually have poor divergence (compared to DPSS) unless relatively low power single mode, the beam is expanded, or you buy a beam expander for them. For what you stating you desire, the highest power DPSS laser you can find is probably going to give you what you want.

To sum up what I believe you are asking for, you are looking for a laser which has the brightest beam for the furthest distance. Now you have another variable to deal with and that is the sensitivity of the eye to different wavelengths. Compared to either violet, blue or red colors, DPSS green is going to be the brightest to the eye for the power. You can buy cheap 10 dollar (or less) 532nm green DPSS laser pointers off of ebay which will produce 30-100 mw of output (luck of the draw, same model can be low or high output, regardless of their claim they are 5mw, or less) and they advertise they can go a specific distance in km, but that is BS, the light doesn't just go a certain distance, it keeps on going forever until it is absorbed or stopped by something, but as the beam spreads it appears to disappear due to becoming too weak to see very well from particles in the air, or having traveled beyond the lower layers of the atmosphere which have lots of particles to reflect off of... otherwise you would never see any beam at all, not from the side, at any power level.

If you want a good laser pointer check out JetLasers, not cheap compared to those low power luck of the draw laser pointers, but quality and can be counted on to produce a guaranteed amount of power output at higher levels than those ebay lasers. There are other DPSS laser pointer manufacturers which also provide quality green DPSS laser pointers at good prices, perhaps even less than JL prices, but for a dependable quality laser pointer at good prices, my preference is JetLasers.

Another important thing I need to mention is that DPSS laser pointers are temperature sensitive, if too cold or warm (due to ambient temperature, or just using them too long) they commonly vary by 50%, or more, below their rated full power output. That's the draw back for DPSS lasers put into a small package we can casually afford, if you want high stability in a low divergence DPSS laser pointer you are going to pay a lot more for it, but they can be purchased from LaserGlow, if you live outside of the US, there are also some other countries they won't ship them to. Find a used LaserGlow 800mw Hercules 532nm laser pointer or a 1.4 watt 532nm pointer made by Optotronics and now you are cooking with gas. Optotronics is top of the line for beam specs and stability, but even their output power will vary. However, they produce a far narrower beam at lower divergence and higher power than any other 532nm green laser pointer ever made. I believe I am correct on that statement, if there is anyone else who produces something as good, please post, I'd like to know.

Optotronics RPL Portable Green Lasers

Regarding the sensitivity of the eye to different wavelengths, here are some rules of thumb, all relative to a 532 nm DPSS green beam and some of the more common laser diodes we can buy, although I shouldn't say 470 is common yet:

405 nm blue-violet: 1% as bright (Not UV, but not far from it).
450 nm blue: 10% as bright
465 nm blue: 14% as bright
470 nm blue: 17% as bright
520 nm green: 88% as bright
638 nm red: 10% as bright
650 nm red: 5% as bright
660 nm red: 2% as bright
670 nm red: 1% as bright (Not IR, but not far from it).

You can do your own calc's at this URL: http://lsrtools.1apps.com/relativebrightness

My opinion, just generalisations:

For a laser pointer, if you want the beam to be visible in the dark at 100mw or more, I'd stay with lasers between 638 and 450nm. Go to a shorter wavelength than 450 nm and the beam is very dim to non-existent, a longer wavelength above 638 nm same problem. You very well may see the beam from a 650 or 405 nm laser pointer in the dark at 50 mw or less, but it all depends upon how many particulates are in the air etc:

A few variables:

The diameter of the beam, whether at infinity focus or not, how dark the room, the amount of particulates in the air and your own sensitivity to different wavelengths may give different results.


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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

Useless troll fighting.

Last edited by Alaskan; 04-03-2017 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 04-03-2017, 06:54 AM #2
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
A troll came in here and asked which laser goes the furthest, I took quite a bit of time answering him to have every thread he created today deleted, due to showing he was no doubt, 100% troll breathed.

Not to have my work go to waste, I'm reposting for the newbies. Sometimes I will answer a newbie I suspect might be a troll because the information could be useful to others new to the hobby, so I'm reposting my thoughts here:
Good idea--was thinking the same thing--was a lot of work--a detailed well done post you did--was a shame it was wasted on a troll.

Thanks for posting the content again. Good one for the data base if people search the question.
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Old 04-03-2017, 08:22 AM #3
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

I was lucky to recover the text.

There is a new "470" nm laser diode out, has anyone here verified it is really 470 nm?

NEW Nichia 470nm 2.6W blue laser diode/9.0mm package high power LD | eBay
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 04-03-2017, 09:35 AM #4
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

That diode is just an NUBM07E 465nm.

Good idea Alaskan, I too answered a troll with a question to do with brightness of lasers and got miffed to find it was a troll post and it got deleted.

I'll share the luminous efficacy graph I posted there again as it may help people out.
Photopic (>3lx) Peak (555nm @ 683 lm)
Mesopic (0.001-3lx) Peak (528nm @ ~1107 lm) (Estimated due to absence of data)
Scotopic (<0.001lx) Peak (507nm @ 1700 lm)

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Notable products/sites:

Jet Lasers offers various high quality Diode/DPSS Portables in their PL-E Pro hosts. Jet Lasers are known for their quality and are respected on LPF.
Jetlasers PLE Pro's

If you are after an RGB module, you can't go wrong with Optlasers. Their 400mW model is very high quality.
Optlasers RGB Modules

Optotronics offers some of the highest output DPSS Portable Greens on the market. Their 1.4W RPL-II is by far their most amazing product and is known to be overspec.
Optotronics RPL 532nm DPSS Portables

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
Bang Good Home

For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

For more sites and information please check out this thread.
Which company should I buy from? By Sta




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Wavelength to RGB Converter
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:42 AM #5
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Aha, another variable, whether viewing in the dark or not, the peak wavelength shifts down to a slightly longer wavelength for scotopic vision, when your eyes have adjusted to the darkness. That would shift the peak sensitivity down and make the red wavelengths a bit more sensitive to our eyes, but the blue worse. I forgot about this, question is, when viewing a powerful laser beam in the dark, does it shift your vision out of scotopic?
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To shorten my signature I have moved most of my laser related web links to this forum page, the second post in that thread shows most of my builds... Alaskan's Laser Links: http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/al...ml#post1449395


Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 04-03-2017, 09:50 AM #6
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan
I forgot about this, question is, when viewing a powerful laser beam in the dark, does it shift your vision out of scotopic?
To a point yes, this is why astronomers use red torches as it doesn't ruin your night vision for observing the stars.

Here is are more variables to consider.
Rayleigh scattering (Shorter wavelengths scatter more, so their beams are more visible.)
Longitudinal Mode (Single mode lasers have brighter spot/beams than multimode lasers)
Beam Specs (Smaller beam diameters lead to brighter spot/beams)
Transmissive medium. (Air, fog, vacuum etc have different properties which scatter light beams differently or not at all.)
Divergence (Crucial for long range visibility)
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Notable products/sites:

Jet Lasers offers various high quality Diode/DPSS Portables in their PL-E Pro hosts. Jet Lasers are known for their quality and are respected on LPF.
Jetlasers PLE Pro's

If you are after an RGB module, you can't go wrong with Optlasers. Their 400mW model is very high quality.
Optlasers RGB Modules

Optotronics offers some of the highest output DPSS Portable Greens on the market. Their 1.4W RPL-II is by far their most amazing product and is known to be overspec.
Optotronics RPL 532nm DPSS Portables

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
Bang Good Home

For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

For more sites and information please check out this thread.
Which company should I buy from? By Sta




Useful Links:
Wavelength to RGB Converter

Last edited by CurtisOliver; 04-03-2017 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 04-03-2017, 09:56 AM #7
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

So, red should be brighter in the dark for a given power compared to blue, a red laser pointer shouldn't mess with your scotopic vision like other shorter wavelengths or colors. When I was enlisted in the US Coast Guard, we always used red lamps on the bridge, as well as many places inside the ship at night, due to that very reason. Also, as a private pilot, we use red night lamps in the cabin of our aircraft for that reason too.
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To shorten my signature I have moved most of my laser related web links to this forum page, the second post in that thread shows most of my builds... Alaskan's Laser Links: http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/al...ml#post1449395


Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 04-03-2017, 10:02 AM #8
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Red appears dim per mW compared to blue due to the shifting. Exactly. Red is perfect for night time applications. It is another reason why yellow/orange sodium lights were ideal for streetlights as they reduced the effects of light pollution compared to the newer LED streetlights.
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Notable products/sites:

Jet Lasers offers various high quality Diode/DPSS Portables in their PL-E Pro hosts. Jet Lasers are known for their quality and are respected on LPF.
Jetlasers PLE Pro's

If you are after an RGB module, you can't go wrong with Optlasers. Their 400mW model is very high quality.
Optlasers RGB Modules

Optotronics offers some of the highest output DPSS Portable Greens on the market. Their 1.4W RPL-II is by far their most amazing product and is known to be overspec.
Optotronics RPL 532nm DPSS Portables

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
Bang Good Home

For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

For more sites and information please check out this thread.
Which company should I buy from? By Sta




Useful Links:
Wavelength to RGB Converter
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:06 AM #9
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

I see a learning opportunity, because I don't understand how red appears dim due to shifting, I thought the shifting to a longer wavelength in darkness would make our eyes a bit more sensitive to that wavelength for that reason.
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To shorten my signature I have moved most of my laser related web links to this forum page, the second post in that thread shows most of my builds... Alaskan's Laser Links: http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/al...ml#post1449395


Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 04-03-2017, 10:12 AM #10
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Ah! I see where you are going wrong. Our eyes shift towards the blue end of the spectrum when our eyes adjust to scotopic vision. Photopic peaks a 555nm and Scotopic is at 507nm. Because our eyes become desensitised to the red part of the spectrum, this is why red doesn't affect our night vision.
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If you are after an RGB module, you can't go wrong with Optlasers. Their 400mW model is very high quality.
Optlasers RGB Modules

Optotronics offers some of the highest output DPSS Portable Greens on the market. Their 1.4W RPL-II is by far their most amazing product and is known to be overspec.
Optotronics RPL 532nm DPSS Portables

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
Bang Good Home

For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

For more sites and information please check out this thread.
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:21 AM #11
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Crap, I was going the wrong direction in my thinking.... lower numbers means shorter wavelength, duh... I know that, yet I still made that error in my thinking.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

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Old 04-03-2017, 10:23 AM #12
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Lol, don't worry Alaskan. Everyone has their moments.
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If you are after an RGB module, you can't go wrong with Optlasers. Their 400mW model is very high quality.
Optlasers RGB Modules

Optotronics offers some of the highest output DPSS Portable Greens on the market. Their 1.4W RPL-II is by far their most amazing product and is known to be overspec.
Optotronics RPL 532nm DPSS Portables

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
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For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

For more sites and information please check out this thread.
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Old 04-03-2017, 10:27 AM #13
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

I have a tendency to think of red as a lower number because it is a lower frequency when the inverse is true, it is a higher number due to a longer wavelength. I have had to be careful to keep my head screwed on right over that for years, slipped again.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

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Old 04-03-2017, 10:30 AM #14
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Yep. If the frequency is high the wavelength is low.
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Jetlasers PLE Pro's

If you are after an RGB module, you can't go wrong with Optlasers. Their 400mW model is very high quality.
Optlasers RGB Modules

Optotronics offers some of the highest output DPSS Portable Greens on the market. Their 1.4W RPL-II is by far their most amazing product and is known to be overspec.
Optotronics RPL 532nm DPSS Portables

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
Bang Good Home

For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

For more sites and information please check out this thread.
Which company should I buy from? By Sta




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Old 04-03-2017, 10:39 AM #15
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

Ha, correct, but that word low is where I get my noodles in a tangle.
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To shorten my signature I have moved most of my laser related web links to this forum page, the second post in that thread shows most of my builds... Alaskan's Laser Links: http://laserpointerforums.com/f44/al...ml#post1449395


Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 04-03-2017, 10:45 AM #16
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Default Re: Which laser goes the furthest? A response...

If the frequency is high the wavelength is short.
Just remember to think the opposite of the frequency.
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Notable products/sites:

Jet Lasers offers various high quality Diode/DPSS Portables in their PL-E Pro hosts. Jet Lasers are known for their quality and are respected on LPF.
Jetlasers PLE Pro's

If you are after an RGB module, you can't go wrong with Optlasers. Their 400mW model is very high quality.
Optlasers RGB Modules

Optotronics offers some of the highest output DPSS Portable Greens on the market. Their 1.4W RPL-II is by far their most amazing product and is known to be overspec.
Optotronics RPL 532nm DPSS Portables

Dragon Lasers offers the best option for 589nm (Yellow) Laser pointers.
Dragon Lasers Yellow Laser Pointers

Sanwu are known to be very high quality and every newcomer should check them out.
Sanwu Home

Bang good is a good source for many electrical items and are often cheap and reliable.
Bang Good Home

For reliable safety goggles visit Survival Laser. Use LPF445 for a 10% member discount.
Eagle Pair Safety Goggles

For more sites and information please check out this thread.
Which company should I buy from? By Sta




Useful Links:
Wavelength to RGB Converter
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