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Old 08-29-2017, 03:18 AM #17
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Default Re: Dirty lens on laser 303

My point was most optics are coated. I agree that if you have uncoated glass, acetone if fine. How often do you see uncoated laser optics? Sure, you can find an example or two, but really how many are uncoated?

I disagree that distilled water will damage coated optics. It is definitely a solvent.


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Old 08-29-2017, 03:31 AM #18
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Default Re: Dirty lens on laser 303

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
My point was most optics are coated. I agree that if you have uncoated glass, acetone if fine. How often do you see uncoated laser optics? Sure, you can find an example or two, but really how many are uncoated?

I disagree that distilled water will damage coated optics. It is definitely a solvent.
The distinction is hard coated optics vs soft coated optics.

Quote:
Some older lasers may have soft-coated optics using dielectric materials that may be water or alcohol soluble before. These were manufactured in the days before they could reach the higher temperatures needed to do nice things with materials like hafnium oxide and titanium oxide. I don't know what is used to clean a soft-coated optic without damaging it terminally. :-( Probably ethyl acetate or something equally exotic. It is likely that water, alcohol (isopropyl or methyl), and acetone, will degrade the surface almost instantly, rendering the mirror useless. If the active area is clean, gently blow off the dust but otherwise leave well enough alone!
How to tell if you have soft-coated optics? Carefully test the very edge of the coated area in a location that doesn't matter. If it is something you don't want to deal with, a bit of pure water, alcohol, or acetone (see the cleaning procedure below; drop and drag, don't rub!), will result in mottling, fine striations, or an otherwise ugly appearance to the surface after drying. The beam of a HeNe laser reflected off such an abused mirror onto a white card will show distinct interference patterns due to diffraction from the damaged surface.
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Last edited by diachi; 08-29-2017 at 03:35 AM.
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Old 08-29-2017, 04:41 AM #19
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Default Re: Dirty lens on laser 303

Link to water soluble optics, please. I am unable to find any examples. Your own quote states there MAY have been some water or alcohol soluble dielectrics but give no examples. It sounds like somebody's hypothetical. Have looked to no avail.
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Old 08-29-2017, 04:59 AM #20
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Default Re: Dirty lens on laser 303

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
Link to water soluble optics, please. I am unable to find any examples. Your own quote states there MAY have been some water or alcohol soluble dielectrics but give no examples. It sounds like somebody's hypothetical. Have looked to no avail.

https://www.repairfaq.org/sam/laseratr.htm#atrcln

It applies to water and various organic solvents, but on older soft coat optics, found mostly on old gas lasers.

Newer optics with hard coatings are, for the most part, just fine with water or various organic solvents, such as acetone.
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Old 08-29-2017, 05:21 AM #21
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Default Re: Dirty lens on laser 303

Those are so old they don't even apply any longer. Those dielectrics are said to be degraded by any solvent, but those gas laser's internal optics are not something anyone today would ever consider cleaning. I thought it was hypothetical. Can you find a RELEVANT example? Not all coatings today are hard coatings either. Those are done by electron gun deposition or vapor deposition. Most of the optics we use around here are not safe from organic solvents. Water is a different story. It would cost us too much to get hard coated optics, unless you are using a pulsed YAG or similar, and those can be found surplus.
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Old 08-29-2017, 07:50 AM #22
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Default Re: Dirty lens on laser 303

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
Those are so old they don't even apply any longer. Those dielectrics are said to be degraded by any solvent, but those gas laser's internal optics are not something anyone today would ever consider cleaning. I thought it was hypothetical. Can you find a RELEVANT example? Not all coatings today are hard coatings either. Those are done by electron gun deposition or vapor deposition. Most of the optics we use around here are not safe from organic solvents. Water is a different story. It would cost us too much to get hard coated optics, unless you are using a pulsed YAG or similar, and those can be found surplus.
Now if alcohol and acetone are harmful, what should we clean? A guy say buy a lenspen and clean it, but you said lens has melted and is now rubbish. Can a lenspen fix this?
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Old 08-29-2017, 08:58 AM #23
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Default Re: Dirty lens on laser 303

Quote:
Originally Posted by dirtylens View Post
Now if alcohol and acetone are harmful, what should we clean? A guy say buy a lenspen and clean it, but you said lens has melted and is now rubbish. Can a lenspen fix this?
A lenspen may have helped before you used the acetone. Unfortunately, cheap lasers use acrylic lenses which dissolve in acetone, so the lens is destroyed and should be considered non repairable. You'd have to replace the lens or get a new laser to fix the issue. As said earlier, just getting a new 303 would make more sense.

edit: There are lots of ways to clean lenses, but using air or a lens brush is likely the best first choice for lasers. If you must use a solvent, the stuff used on glasses is pretty safe. You just need to let it sit for a while to dry. Use the forum search function for more information on various cleaning techniques for the different parts of a laser.
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Old 08-29-2017, 03:10 PM #24
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Default Re: Dirty lens on laser 303

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
Those are so old they don't even apply any longer. Those dielectrics are said to be degraded by any solvent, but those gas laser's internal optics are not something anyone today would ever consider cleaning. I thought it was hypothetical. Can you find a RELEVANT example? Not all coatings today are hard coatings either. Those are done by electron gun deposition or vapor deposition. Most of the optics we use around here are not safe from organic solvents. Water is a different story. It would cost us too much to get hard coated optics, unless you are using a pulsed YAG or similar, and those can be found surplus.
I don't even know why we're arguing about this now, my original point was that acetone can be used to clean optics, not all optics, but it can certainly be used to clean many. You said acetone should never be used to clean optics, which is false.

Plenty of optics are hard coated these days, especially the higher performance lenses we use. I've been using 99% isopropyl to clean optics for years and have only encountered issues on the cheapest of the cheap low performance optics.

It's arguably cheaper to hard coat now than it is to soft coat given that there's more automation and repeatability.

Anyway, point stands, you can use acetone to clean optics. Make sure it isn't acrylic, test an edge first if you're not sure it's hard coated. Done.
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