a complain received by a customer for the newly 520nm green laser pointer

I haven't spent much time trying to figure out to do it, because I didn't know enough to be able to think on it much, but I was wondering if there was a way. Another crazy idea I had was to telegraph a message to the simulation computer running this whole thing... simply by causing a processing power crunch fracking the with system enough to where it kept having to correct my attempts to cheat the system, toggling a quantum eraser on and off in a data pattern. I suppose doing that is absolutely no challenge the the system and won't cause any difference anyway. OK, this is pure Twilight Zone Outer Limits, I know.

Let's just say that every possibility has been mapped out already. So if there is a situation where you have created a crash in the matrix, and suddenly become a multi-millionaire. Then hack it again on my behalf.

I was thinking of something different; pushing the FEC error correction algorithm hard enough to get the operators attention to see what is wrong and wave

CurtisOliver said:

Unfortunately not. The closest we could ever get is this. Just for fun. This is highly theoretical and probably wouldn't work either.

Suppose we have two planets at a distance of 0.1 lyr away doing the lottery. Planet 1 releases numbers at Time 0 and Planet 2 aligns its release exactly 0.1 years after. This way the information release to their respective populations would be the same. Multi-planet lottery.
How can Planet 2 cheat.
Step 1:
Generate entangled photons, send one set out to Planet 1 0.1 years in advance. (so they arrive on time of course) And then circulate the other set for 0.2 years.
Step 2: Do it so somehow (I don't know how) when Planet 1 observes the winning numbers the wave-function collapses. Then instantly the wave-function of the entangled photons would show the opposite states to the other.
Step 3: Invert the string generated from the entangled photons.
Step 4: Wait 0.1 years and then play your numbers.

You should then win Planet 2's lottery.

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Quantum Entanglement doesn't allow for FTL data transmission though. This breaks causality. Maybe we'll figure it out some day. :beer:

This would not be for the purpose of transmitting data into the past or future, but causing the system to need to make far higher FEC corrections than normal to get someone to see what the hell is wrong.

Alaskan said:

This would not be for the purpose of transmitting data into the past or future, but causing the system to need to make far higher FEC corrections than normal to get someone to see what the hell is wrong.

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Curtis' lottery cheating scenario would require FTL communication though, would it not?

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around it, it started to give me a head ache so I stopped, will revisit it later.

Alaskan said:

I was thinking of something different; pushing the FEC error correction algorithm hard enough to get the operators attention to see what is wrong and wave

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Good luck on that one.

diachi said:

Quantum Entanglement doesn't allow for FTL data transmission though. This breaks causality. Maybe we'll figure it out some day. :beer:

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You're right, but if you allow the photons to travel first and then collapse them, the laws of physics are preserved despite the information being known before light can make a return trip. I don't like to think of it as FTL, as the information isn't really travelling it is teleporting through entanglement with the assistance of the 5th dimension. It does still put practical limits on range. If you want information instantly from 1000 ly away then you need to have a entangled pair that has traveled for 1000 years. It seems clear in my head, but whether it comes across clear to everyone else is another matter.
There is a reason why Einstein labeled it as a spooky action at a distance.

Edit: Cause and effect breaks down, when we think of extra dimensions, so who knows it may be possible but not in the 4D spacetime we know.

Only spooky because he didn't understand in a simulated reality there is no distance, it's all just data. Edit: Inside the program as a player, you can't outrun the processors clock either, so no way you can outpace it to go FTL when traveling through the programmed chunks of space distance.

diachi said:

Well, my batteries showed up today. Looks like I ordered two sets, I thought I only ordered two batteries. Bonus!

I also had a slip in the mail for pickup tomorrow, so maybe that's it. Had some other stuff in there - perhaps they couldn't fit the pointer?

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I'll bet it is the HeNe PS...

Jerry

CurtisOliver said:

Good luck on that one.
You're right, but if you allow the photons to travel first and then collapse them, the laws of physics are preserved despite the information being known before light can make a return trip.

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But it doesn't work that way unfortunately, you can't transfer any useful meaningful information using entanglement.

Say you have two entangled electrons, you don't know what spin they have, but you know that they must always have an opposite spin, either 1/2 or -1/2. Until you measure it they essentially have both spins at the same time, or 0. The chance of getting either spin when you measure is exactly 50/50.

You send one electron to your friend(B) on another planet and keep one for yourself, you still don't know which spin either has until you measure it, they still essentially have a spin of "0". So you measure the spin of your electron, and it's 1/2 (50/50 chance of being 1/2 or -1/2), that means the other one is now no longer in the 0 state and is now instantly in the -1/2 state. However, your friend(B) at the other end doesn't know this until you either send a regular light speed communication to them, or they measure it themselves.

The first scenario means no information is sent faster than light anyway as you had to use regular light speed communication to let your friend(B) know the state of your electron, and thus their electron too.

If your friend (B) decides to measure the electron at their end, they still don't gain any information (until they measure it, or you tell them, it's still spin 0 for all intents and purposes), all they know now is that the electron at your end is 1/2 spin... But they don't know that you know that, until you communicate with regular light speed communication... Even then, knowing which state the electron is at either end doesn't really tell you anything useful other than the state of the electron at each end, seeing as there was a 50/50 chance of it being either until measured...

Here's the problem: You'd need to be able to force a change in the state of one or both of the entangled electrons in order to send information, but you can't do that as it breaks the entanglement and they'd return to being regular electrons with a 50/50 chance of being 1/2 or -1/2 independent of the state of the other. That's my understanding at least.

Quantum entanglement/teleportation is interesting, and has potential uses, but FTL communication isn't one of them, at least not with our current understanding of physics.

Sorry if that's not the best explanation. There are better explanations out there. It's hard to wrap your head around...

lasersbee said:

I'll bet it is the HeNe PS...

Jerry

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That's what I'm thinking too...

No that is a good explanation, something I totally forgot to think about. I always thought that when one was observed it instantly affected the other then breaking the entanglement. Then the communication comes from logical reduction. Thanks.

I too, now I see the problem, or rather, reason why you can't send data FTL.

CurtisOliver said:

No that is a good explanation, something I totally forgot to think about. I always thought that when one was observed as 0 the other instantly changes to 1. This is where I went wrong. Thanks.

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Glad it sorta made sense!

It doesn't really "change", it's just when you measure your end the other end must be the opposite. But until you either let the other end know your measurement or you take a measurement at the other end, it's still a superposition of both states at the other end, though if you measure it it'll always be the opposite state to the state measured at the other end ... but you don't know what they measured until you measure your end or they tell you what their result was... IIRC Quantum teleportation is a little different, and would involve a third particle, but the same limitations still apply.



My head hurts from thinking about it. :crackup: Interesting subject, but damn is it hard to grasp, even on a very basic level.

It's a tight program, won't permit cheats. Why? Are we supposed to be so damn isolated from one another that at long distances there is absolutely no way to communicate? only reason I can think that would be part of the design is to assure the universe can be as diverse as possible, so that everyone develops their own uniqueness across the expanses.

Alaskan said:

It's a tight program, won't permit cheats. Why? Are we supposed to be so damn isolated from one another that at long distances there is absolutely no way to communicate? only reason I can think that would be part of the design is to assure the universe can be as diverse as possible, so that everyone develops their own uniqueness across the expanses.

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I don't think it's impossible to communicate faster than light, I just don't think it's possible with our current understanding or technology. Same goes for "FTL" transit, that's theoretically possible. Warp drive for instance would allow for it, and that's theoretically possible, but you're not actually traveling faster than light, you're essentially compressing space so that you don't have to travel as far.

From an outside reference point you'd cover a distance in less time than it'd take light, thus it'd appear to be FTL, but from your reference point you're traveling a shorter distance slower than light.