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Old 07-18-2017, 03:41 AM #17
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Would you consider this to be the world's most powerful handheld laser? Fear and awe


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Old 07-18-2017, 05:48 AM #18
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMc View Post
Wow! That's a very interesting story you've got there Radim. Glad things worked out and you didn't get injured. Could have been- not a good thing. I have scared stray cats before and a flock of crows just by flashing the beam near them. The deer, has stories now, to tell his offspring about the time he ran into an ET.

I'm think their eyes are more sensitive than our eyes are. Read that somewhere once.
I think they might be more sensitive and likely in green region as vegetation is in this color and it is crucial to have good vision in green area. The dot must had look like something extraterrestrial to him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dden4012 View Post
Would you consider this to be the world's most powerful handheld laser? Fear and awe
Do you mean Evo? Come on, everybody knows Arctic is. But Evo is definitely awesome laser and my favourite to take with me everywhere. The best portable of Wicked Lasers for sure.

BTW if we consider as portable only those of flashlight size, I would say the 7 W diode is currently the most powerful, but I'm not sure. If flashlight size is not limit, I've seen on YT like 40 or 100 W CO2 laser in portable package. Also Styropyro made laser bazooka or something like that of incredible 200 W.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:28 PM #19
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
I think they might be more sensitive and likely in green region as vegetation is in this color and it is crucial to have good vision in green area. The dot must had look like something extraterrestrial to him.



Come on, everybody knows Arctic is.
Radim: are you trying to say the Arctic isn't the most "powerful handheld laser in the world" ? You know that's blaspheme!


I had that same thoughts about the green WL and photosynthesis. Think there's something there.
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Old 07-18-2017, 12:34 PM #20
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Bob, I've been somewhat interested in these for a while also, I believe the 520nm version would be best overall, and it's up to $200 cheaper depending on 532nm output power.
There has been some discussion about these in -This- thread (pages 8 & 9); I believe Len (Hakzaw) brought these up to the discussion.

It sounds as if they have not been sold here in the US yet, hopefully Gray will have any updated info., Len may also know the status of these as far as availability here.
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Old 07-18-2017, 01:47 PM #21
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMc View Post
Radim: are you trying to say the Arctic isn't the most "powerful handheld laser in the world" ? You know that's blaspheme!


I had that same thoughts about the green WL and photosynthesis. Think there's something there.
I've no doubt Arctic is the most powerful laser. They claimed it, it must be truth. (Disclaimer for those not aware and/or realizing we are joking here: Arctic is not the most powerful laser, even mine peaks nearly 4 W, there are 7 W diode lasers commercially available.)

Photosynthesis uses light absorbed, CO2 and water to build plant/tree structures. Since all visible part except green is absorbed this explain the green color of leaves, there is chlorophyll responsible for that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll


This is absorption spectrum of chlorophyll A and B. Source is wiki - the link above.

My hypothesis is as wild animals, like deers, live in green environment their eyes are evolutionary adapted to be sensitive for spectre common in this environment to spot predators hidden in vegetation and terrain and run away (those with lack of this advantage were killed by predators before they were able to reproduce, those with this ability had higher chance to survive), also there might be effect of better ability to recognize various edible plants by slightly different color from those with poissoned and not tasty (?). Also plants are know to reflect ultraviolet, so here it also plays role. Also the active time of the day influenced eye evolution and that's why they are much more light sensitive than human.

Check out this:
How Game Animals See & Smell | ?????????? ????????? ?????? HUNTER.RU


Source is the link above.

As a consequence of high (and much higher than human eye) sensitivity to blue - green the bright laser dot therefore is something unknown and animals are led by instinct to escape from unknown and likely dangerous stuff. (I even bet it is a bit painful for them to see green/blue dot at dusk or near sunset.) I think also blue laser will work well, but red won't be much effective (as well as yellow and orange). Interesting is the sensitivity in UV and the shift of peak to blue compared to human eye sensitivity. So, they can even spot you when you think you are not visible, but because your clothes were washed in some detergent it will glow for them much more than human can see as the detergent fluorescent spectre is highly visible for them. So you will look blue in green vegetation to them even human won't see you due to camuflage and lack of sensitivity for that part of spectre.

Here for more:

Quote:
Optical brighteners, optical brightening agents (OBAs), fluorescent brightening agents (FBAs) or fluorescent whitening agents (FWAs) are chemical compounds that absorb light in the ultraviolet and violet region (usually 340-370 nm) of the electromagnetic spectrum, and re-emit light in the blue region (typically 420-470 nm) by fluorescence.
...
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optical_brightener

And here interesting article (images below are sourced from the article):
Washing ACU, Army Combat Uniform



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Old 07-18-2017, 03:43 PM #22
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
I've no doubt Arctic is the most powerful laser. They claimed it, it must be truth. (Disclaimer for those not aware and/or realizing we are joking here: Arctic is not the most powerful laser, even mine peaks nearly 4 W, there are 7 W diode lasers commercially available.)

Radim: Keep in mind/know that at one time Wicked Lasers was the hand held laser industry leader and "trailblazer" --long before anyone else and the "sea" of "me too" people came to be. ---Arctic Spyder I was in fact the world's most powerful hand held laser --- the WL marketing guys just kept using the fact long after it was no longer the case.

"January 2006 - Launched the Spyder I Series
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Spyder I had an output of 40mW in the 473nm blue ($3499) and 300mW in the 532nm green ($1999). Crafted out of heat-resistant brass, it was fully waterproof, with a continuous duty cycle. The Spyder I Series held the Guinness World Record for being the most powerful handheld laser in the world."
From: About us - Wicked Lasers

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Old 07-18-2017, 03:58 PM #23
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encap View Post
Radim: Keep in mind/know that at one time Wicked Lasers were the hand held laser industry "trailblazers" long before anyone else and the "sea" of "me too" people came about. ---Arctic Spyder I was in fact the world's most powerful hand held laser --- the WL marketing guys just kept using the fact long after it was no longer the case.

"January 2006 - Launched the Spyder I Series
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Spyder I had an output of 40mW in the 473nm blue ($3499) and 300mW in the 532nm green ($1999). Crafted out of heat-resistant brass, it was fully waterproof, with a continuous duty cycle. The Spyder I Series held the Guinness World Record for being the most powerful handheld laser in the world."
From: About us - Wicked Lasers
Yes, I'm aware of that. But as you mentioned - that's not valid anymore.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:22 PM #24
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Not only does it have the power to point something out but also the power to persuade. It is the most powerful handheld laser in the world.
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Old 07-18-2017, 04:40 PM #25
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
Yes, I'm aware of that. But as you mentioned - that's not valid anymore.
Wicked Lasers no longer makes the marketing claim of being "the world's most powerful hand held laser" either--that is ancient history for a long while now as well, so it is all a daydream/imaginings about a time that no longer exist.
Yes that WL used that claim for so long after it was no longer true is outrageous, but they didn't just make it up they did have at one time a legitimate ownership/claim to that factoid/marketing claim.

The reason I mentioned it is many imagine it was an outright marketing lie/misrepresentation which is not true.
WL did at one time have a right to make that claim.

The hand held laser business, all of it , in no small part was created by WL aggressive and unparalleled marketing campaigns.
In fact the reason LPF itself was created was because of the WL forum when it existed not satisfying many who visited the WL board/forum--so ....

So the point is when people are trashing WL as often happens, they need to realize that a part of why the hobby and other makers came along and exist today is because of the early groundbreaking original work done by Wicked Lasers, good, bad or indifferent opinions about Wicked Lasers, notwithstanding.

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Old 07-18-2017, 05:32 PM #26
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Encap View Post
Wicked Lasers no longer makes the marketing claim of being "the world's most powerful hand held laser" either--that is ancient history for a long while now as well, so it is all a daydream/imaginings about a time that no longer exist.
Yes that WL used that claim for so long after it was no longer true is outrageous, but they didn't just make it up they did have at one time a legitimate ownership/claim to that factoid.

The reason I mentioned it is many imagine it was an outright marketing lie/misrepresentation which is not true.
WL did at one time have a right to make that claim.

The hand held laser business, all of it , in no small part was created by WL aggressive and unparalleled marketing campaigns.
In fact the reason LPF itself was created was because of the WL forum when it existed not satisfying many who visited the WL board/forum--so ....

So the point is when people are trashing WL as often happens, they need to realize that a part of why the hobby and other makers came along and exist today is because of the early and original work done by Wicked Lasers, good, bad or indifferent opinions, notwithstanding.
A very nice comment, Encap. I agree almost completely with you.
Except this:

Screenshot was taken a while ago. It's their mobile site, but should be updated if that is no longer truth. I did not checked their desktop version at the moment, but I remember it was there last time I visited it.

Before I put my money in Evo almost exactly a year (bought it at Colours of Ostrava festival via mobile when I decided finally to go for it in good mood and the festival starts just tomorrow again), I did extensive research on them due to bad reputation. Shortly after EVO I did some good business with them.

Also having all Spyder collection (as you can see in my signature) and having Laserdock projector and a lot of accessories, I could say I'm their fan.

Evo review with so far almost a year of experience is in progress. I have a few paragraphs written. I'll also include honest evaluation of the company and I'm going to do it in depth to bring more complex point of view.

Also to refer later on with when someone consider WL bad so firmly, that there have to be arguments against the predujice that company is an complex organism developing and evovlving organism in dynamic environment and therefore has to change and act in the environment to survive. They therefore change and interact. I've no doubt bad reputation forced them to do so and improve. Also asset of company with huge complexity are HR. All people change, they think evaluate how to succeed and bring this to reality. Change in corporate culture as set of written and unwritten rules how it works as further important asset. Finally there are other assets of course (facilities making environment of administrative and worker employees, various internal rules making people feel good in life - benefits, salary, free time, intangible assets and so on...). Everything changes in the company as people do.

Portable laser competition and LPF influence is great in the hobby. In deed LPF was born from WL forum - the seed was there. Hobby boom and now its stabilization with more competition on market. Hard to succeed honestly as people tend to search for reference before spending hundreds bucks and likely more than before. The good step they did was Laserdock for sure and they focus on it more now as their product portfolio flagship. US market is almost closed for them and US is important market in laser hobby, just look at LPF community.

So, they are (maybe - my latest experience was Laserdock autumn last year?) not as great as other top companies, but there is no reason to say they are bad. Yes, they have some imperfections, but these are nothing compared to the horror stories found on internet and LPF from "Arctic fail". Every company has some, but honestly less. Not a big deal IMO. All my lasers are still working and arrived I would say average time to my country.

Their products are somehow special - as this brand history is closely linked to the hobby. So higher price they ask is somehow acceptable (however in US with restriction it is crazy). They even have much better safety features than more reputable companies. And Evo laser's host is just awesome (more in my review). Do you see intangible asset here as well? And asset might bring money and profit.

Here they should focus their portable marketing IMO than keeping the old one. Maybe next step...

It will be likely large part of the review.

Edit: Laserdock in action now.
Mobile photo.

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Old 07-19-2017, 12:16 AM #27
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHEW!
This thread is awesome--thanks ALL who have posted and the OP.
AixiZ is soon going to be selling the JL Yamtaka--but not at any Estore.
We are not comfy with sales of these to just anybody (btw the 520 is same price as the 400mW 532 IIRC)
Chuck is also a 'Carry' permit instructor and sells arms.
Thus he has enough contacts with LEs and goes to Gun Shows-- aside from just good sense-no good reason to sell ATM no 'need' for public sales while the seller can be sued for injury/death--and the '5mW' limit

///btw... about 6 yrs ago , at AixiZ, I saw a 'made only for the military' 532 handheld- three uncombined lasers-and took 3 26650s. end to end.
not sure of the Wattage.>2 .
I assume they converge at some point-- next visit I will ask for another peek and ask some Qs.

A 520 'Yama' is on its way to us.
some suggested improvements (already) a code or dongle pin to prevent its use on the victim.

A siren- - (for $25 you can buy the old style stun w/ siren),...

some asked about GPS and auto 911 calling-- but a cellphone serves that need.

A good holster.

a MUCH better video-- a working tutorial. video.... what Gray has now for the Yama can be greatly improved upon imo

I see very clearly that it is not just the Chinalaser sellers who BS about 'actual' powers-
in a search I saw 'claimed' Volts as high as 15 million-- for..

hundreds of devices and a dozen forms--

-BUT the only ones w/ a laser was== a red for AIMING your Taser darts.

I can see these replacing the LED flashlight carried by LE and security officers.
... one common 'Con' from LE is-'we have enough stuff on our belts already'
OK
so don't add.... replace.

anybody want to volunteer for test of the stun gun??

@ adding orange/red tape to pistol style dazzler
YES.. no brainer.

+rep to all when sys allows-


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SRRY
Had a tough time loading this pic.
IIRC this is the 'proto' for the dazzler Bob has.. its on a charger btw in this pic.. eiher that or 'yer gonna need a really LONG cord'


don't know if they ever sold them in this 'host'... it looked kewl to me back then ..but now.. not so much.
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Old 07-19-2017, 12:57 AM #28
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Len, thanks for checking in with the latest info. on the Yamataka; some of those improvements would be great.
Definitely need a better tutorial/instructions, and a video would make it that much better!
A quality holster is almost a neccesity. I also think a heavy, high quality lanyard would be good to have; with thd lanyard around your wrist, it would make it harder to take the unit away from you!

I'm definitely interested in these when they finally come on the market, keep us informed on the ongoing progress you guys are making!
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Old 07-19-2017, 02:19 AM #29
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BowtieGuy View Post
Bob, I've been somewhat interested in these for a while also, I believe the 520nm version would be best overall, and it's up to $200 cheaper depending on 532nm output power.
There has been some discussion about these in -This- thread (pages 8 & 9); I believe Len (Hakzaw) brought these up to the discussion.

It sounds as if they have not been sold here in the US yet, hopefully Gray will have any updated info., Len may also know the status of these as far as availability here.
I just got a message from JL and as far as I read they are selling them. So I will probably be ordering a 1 watt 520 next week or so. My Pistol Dazzler is a 532nm so I opted for the 520 in this version. ( 200.00 less helped some too ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
I've no doubt Arctic is the most powerful laser. They claimed it, it must be truth. (Disclaimer for those not aware and/or realizing we are joking here: Arctic is not the most powerful laser, even mine peaks nearly 4 W, there are 7 W diode lasers commercially available.)

Photosynthesis uses light absorbed, CO2 and water to build plant/tree structures. Since all visible part except green is absorbed this explain the green color of leaves, there is chlorophyll responsible for that:


My hypothesis is as wild animals, like deers, live in green environment their eyes are evolutionary adapted to be sensitive for spectre common in this environment to spot predators hidden in vegetation and terrain and run away (those with lack of this advantage were killed by predators before they were able to reproduce, those with this ability had higher chance to survive), also there might be effect of better ability to recognize various edible plants by slightly different color from those with poissoned and not tasty (?). Also plants are know to reflect ultraviolet, so here it also plays role. Also the active time of the day influenced eye evolution and that's why they are much more light sensitive than human.



As a consequence of high (and much higher than human eye) sensitivity to blue - green the bright laser dot therefore is something unknown and animals are led by instinct to escape from unknown and likely dangerous stuff. (I even bet it is a bit painful for them to see green/blue dot at dusk or near sunset.) I think also blue laser will work well, but red won't be much effective (as well as yellow and orange). Interesting is the sensitivity in UV and the shift of peak to blue compared to human eye sensitivity. So, they can even spot you when you think you are not visible, but because your clothes were washed in some detergent it will glow for them much more than human can see as the detergent fluorescent spectre is highly visible for them. So you will look blue in green vegetation to them even human won't see you due to camuflage and lack of sensitivity for that part of spectre.
Man lot of good info here Radim. Thanks for taking the time to post it all. Good read.

( good to hear you were only kidding about the Arctic not being the "worlds most powerful" I was about ready to doubt everything I learned I public schools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hakzaw1 View Post
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WHEW!
This thread is awesome--thanks ALL who have posted and the OP.
AixiZ is soon going to be selling the JL Yamtaka--but not at any Estore.
We are not comfy with sales of these to just anybody (btw the 520 is same price as the 400mW 532 IIRC)
Chuck is also a 'Carry' permit instructor and sells arms.
Thus he has enough contacts with LEs and goes to Gun Shows-- aside from just good sense-no good reason to sell ATM no 'need' for public sales while the seller can be sued for injury/death--and the '5mW' limit

///btw... about 6 yrs ago , at AixiZ, I saw a 'made only for the military' 532 handheld- three uncombined lasers-and took 3 26650s. end to end.
not sure of the Wattage.>2 .
I assume they converge at some point-- next visit I will ask for another peek and ask some Qs.

A 520 'Yama' is on its way to us.
some suggested improvements (already) a code or dongle pin to prevent its use on the victim.

A siren- - (for $25 you can buy the old style stun w/ siren),...

some asked about GPS and auto 911 calling-- but a cellphone serves that need.

A good holster.

a MUCH better video-- a working tutorial. video.... what Gray has now for the Yama can be greatly improved upon imo

I see very clearly that it is not just the Chinalaser sellers who BS about 'actual' powers-
in a search I saw 'claimed' Volts as high as 15 million-- for..

hundreds of devices and a dozen forms--

-BUT the only ones w/ a laser was== a red for AIMING your Taser darts.

I can see these replacing the LED flashlight carried by LE and security officers.
... one common 'Con' from LE is-'we have enough stuff on our belts already'
OK
so don't add.... replace.

anybody want to volunteer for test of the stun gun??

@ adding orange/red tape to pistol style dazzler
YES.. no brainer.

+rep to all when sys allows-


Len




___________combining________

SRRY
Had a tough time loading this pic.
IIRC this is the 'proto' for the dazzler Bob has.. its on a charger btw in this pic.. eiher that or 'yer gonna need a really LONG cord'


don't know if they ever sold them in this 'host'... it looked kewl to me back then ..but now.. not so much.
Glad you enjoyed the post Hakzaw, thanks for the heads up on all the improvements coming up. Got my eye one one.
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Old 07-19-2017, 03:36 AM #30
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Glad you enjoyed the post Hakzaw, thanks for the heads up on all the improvements coming up. Got my eye one one.
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You are very welcome

I have a few extra JL PL=C tailcaps-- w/ pin==myb we can make that improvement ourselves and have that sooner.
we can make lanyards. and even find holsters.. we need to see if Gray will include one of their camo nylon holsters-they can be modified. @ waterproof..
so JL sez.
on a YTube vid shows one held under water-- safe to assume they were testing laser and LED strobe and NOT the stun feature (underwater in your fricken hand).
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Old 07-19-2017, 10:44 PM #31
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
I've no doubt Arctic is the most powerful laser. They claimed it, it must be truth. (Disclaimer for those not aware and/or realizing we are joking here: Arctic is not the most powerful laser, even mine peaks nearly 4 W, there are 7 W diode lasers commercially available.)

Photosynthesis uses light absorbed, CO2 and water to build plant/tree structures. Since all visible part except green is absorbed this explain the green color of leaves, there is chlorophyll responsible for that:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll


This is absorption spectrum of chlorophyll A and B. Source is wiki - the link above.

My hypothesis is as wild animals, like deers, live in green environment their eyes are evolutionary adapted to be sensitive for spectre common in this environment to spot predators hidden in vegetation and terrain and run away (those with lack of this advantage were killed by predators before they were able to reproduce, those with this ability had higher chance to survive), also there might be effect of better ability to recognize various edible plants by slightly different color from those with poissoned and not tasty (?). Also plants are know to reflect ultraviolet, so here it also plays role. Also the active time of the day influenced eye evolution and that's why they are much more light sensitive than human.

Check out this:
How Game Animals See & Smell | ?????????? ????????? ?????? HUNTER.RU


Source is the link above.

As a consequence of high (and much higher than human eye) sensitivity to blue - green the bright laser dot therefore is something unknown and animals are led by instinct to escape from unknown and likely dangerous stuff. (I even bet it is a bit painful for them to see green/blue dot at dusk or near sunset.) I think also blue laser will work well, but red won't be much effective (as well as yellow and orange). Interesting is the sensitivity in UV and the shift of peak to blue compared to human eye sensitivity. So, they can even spot you when you think you are not visible, but because your clothes were washed in some detergent it will glow for them much more than human can see as the detergent fluorescent spectre is highly visible for them. So you will look blue in green vegetation to them even human won't see you due to camuflage and lack of sensitivity for that part of spectre
That is an interesting theory, but it causes prey animals to rely too heavily on sight alone. They are also able to hear better, sense vibrations in the ground and air along with their sense of smell, which you did admit to. There are many ways that prey animals have at their disposal to avoid predators. The young have little scent themselves for predators to pick up on and they blend in well with surrounding foliage to hide while their mothers can lead predators away from them.

Plants need more than just water and CO2 to develop all the proteins and other chemicals necessary for them to continue in this environment. N2, phosphor, trace minerals are all needed to make the chemicals plants use to survive. I think it was no accident that Papaver Somniferum, or the opium poppy makes the chemicals that mimic endogenous peptide endorphines that the body makes to suppress pain signals from getting to the brain. Many of the chemicals plants make are used by humans and this is an adaptive survival attempt by these plants to be used and cultivated in order to survive. Fruits have their seeds inside them so animals will eat and plant them with their feces. It's no wonder that many plants have genomes much larger than we have.
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Old 07-20-2017, 05:51 AM #32
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Default Re: Question's concerning Jetlasers Yamataka series.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobMc View Post
I had that same thoughts about the green WL and photosynthesis. Think there's something there.
Hey Bob, you're not planning to use this in the grow room are you?
And FWIW, a little birdy told me that lasers just ticks Bigfoot off, so keep that in mind too.
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