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Old 05-30-2017, 06:26 AM #1
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Default Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Hey everyone,

Haven't been here for a while.

I am currently working for an engineering company and apart of a project that uses a 10W 445nm laser mounted on an 'intelligent robot' arm. This arm is attached on a mobile tank tread base that patrols farms and kills weeds and pests with the laser. This robot also uses machine vision to detect weed and pest species automatically without a human driver.

The laser module will be similar to this: 450nm 445nm 10W 10000mW High-power blue laser diode module engraving wood metal


What are some of the safety issues/features that should be considered during prototype lab testing, and on-field testing?

Also, what safety glasses is recommended?
I saw these glasses being tested in InfinitusEquitas' thread with a 2.5W 450nm: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...1_details?th=1. However, im not sure how $15 glasses will hold up against a 10W..


This is just the beginning stages of the project and any advise or suggestions will be received with an open mind


Thanks in advance!

EDIT:
just realized the laser i linked cannot be focusable to be parallel beams. Any easy fix? the max seems to be capped at 5.5W for focusable 445s?



Last edited by blue bumblebee; 05-30-2017 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 05-30-2017, 10:03 AM #2
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

An autonomous fire starter and people blinder, I see many problems. You would want to use an eye safe laser, an industrial laser and you will need human detection and avoidance as well as onboard fire suppression, and ........you just cant be serious about this, it's so ridiculous.
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Old 05-30-2017, 10:21 AM #3
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Replace laser with secateurs/bug vacuum and THEN you have a decent idea. This is not a good problem to try to solve with a laser. Hazard to people being one and a very serious fire hazard being another.
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Old 05-30-2017, 10:27 AM #4
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
An autonomous fire starter and people blinder, I see many problems. You would want to use an eye safe laser, an industrial laser and you will need human detection and avoidance as well as onboard fire suppression, and ........you just cant be serious about this, it's so ridiculous.
Just don't get those glasses as they have no mention of any laser related safety. They are made as blue light blocker for industrial projectile protection and some members noticed they offer some level of protection for 2W blue and lower.
RedC either way he might be working on this project??
Go with a Eagle pair of glasses what ever you do or might do...
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Old 05-30-2017, 11:43 AM #5
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Your smart enough to work on this project yet not so smart too know you should be looking at the Canadian workplace safety requirements for lasers. In this situation the last place to ask such questions is this forum. The company you work for should know have those workplace safety requirements in place. Buy safety glasses from a reputable company.

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Old 05-30-2017, 12:16 PM #6
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

I've noticed in the recent past threads very similar to this, by similar I mean some company hires some young person who knows little about lasers to work on a project with what appears to be little guidance. It also seems the companies knows little about lasers. These companies sound like fly by night enterprises.

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Old 05-30-2017, 12:43 PM #7
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

*cough *cough.... the Cl1000 laser gun is what you need. why 5W when you can have 1000W?
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Old 05-30-2017, 03:00 PM #8
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
An autonomous fire starter and people blinder, I see many problems. You would want to use an eye safe laser, an industrial laser and you will need human detection and avoidance as well as onboard fire suppression, and ........you just cant be serious about this, it's so ridiculous.

"FIRE HAZARD!" That's the first thing I thought, massive fire hazard. Not to mention the danger an uncontrolled Class IV beam poses to people and animals.

It would be easier and far safer to stick a strimmer (weed whacker) on the robot.

I don't know why people decide to use lasers where there are far safer and more practical options. See it all the time. Is it just the "cool" factor?

Quote:
EDIT:
just realized the laser i linked cannot be focusable to be parallel beams. Any easy fix? the max seems to be capped at 5.5W for focusable 445s?
You're going to have to explain that one OP... not sure what you're meaning?
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:12 PM #9
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
An autonomous fire starter and people blinder, I see many problems. You would want to use an eye safe laser, an industrial laser and you will need human detection and avoidance as well as onboard fire suppression, and ........you just cant be serious about this, it's so ridiculous.
Yes, there is human/object avoidance feature on the robot. And i'll look into fire suppressant options. Thanks for your input

Quote:
Originally Posted by CynicalBrad View Post
Replace laser with secateurs/bug vacuum and THEN you have a decent idea. This is not a good problem to try to solve with a laser. Hazard to people being one and a very serious fire hazard being another.
Thanks. However, the bug vacuum will likely not be fast enough before the bug flies away. Yeah, I see that as well. Thanks for your input

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSS View Post
Just don't get those glasses as they have no mention of any laser related safety. They are made as blue light blocker for industrial projectile protection and some members noticed they offer some level of protection for 2W blue and lower.
RedC either way he might be working on this project??
Go with a Eagle pair of glasses what ever you do or might do...
Thanks! I'll get some eagle pairs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve001 View Post
Your smart enough to work on this project yet not so smart too know you should be looking at the Canadian workplace safety requirements for lasers. In this situation the last place to ask such questions is this forum. The company you work for should know have those workplace safety requirements in place. Buy safety glasses from a reputable company.
Thanks. Yeah I'll be looking into that in the upcoming days. And no, I don't think they know the laser safety lab requirements. But they said they'd spend whatever to make the lab safe. (So I guess I'll be the guy looking it up)

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve001 View Post
I've noticed in the recent past threads very similar to this, by similar I mean some company hires some young person who knows little about lasers to work on a project with what appears to be little guidance. It also seems the companies knows little about lasers. These companies sound like fly by night enterprises.
Yes, you are right. This is a startup and my main position is the hardware/mechanical side of the robot. And the laser is one of the components. They just got a round of seed funding for this project, so I guess it makes it more 'legit' in terms of the team and the market for such a device.


Quote:
Originally Posted by diachi View Post
"FIRE HAZARD!" That's the first thing I thought, massive fire hazard. Not to mention the danger an uncontrolled Class IV beam poses to people and animals.

It would be easier and far safer to stick a strimmer (weed whacker) on the robot.

I don't know why people decide to use lasers where there are far safer and more practical options. See it all the time. Is it just the "cool" factor?


You're going to have to explain that one OP... not sure what you're meaning?
Thanks for your input.
Yeah, the first thing I mentioned was the weed whacker spinney brush thing, but they didn't want it.
The reasoning was along the lines of:
- Our laser thing is completely different
- We are preventative, and the others are reactive
- It looks cooler to investors and customers

In the laser link description, it says "focal length of 20mm. can NOT output parallel Beam" Would it be fairly easy to rig something up to make the beam parallel?

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Old 05-30-2017, 04:36 PM #10
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by blue bumblebee View Post
Thanks for your input.
Yeah, the first thing I mentioned was the weed whacker spinney brush thing, but they didn't want it.
The reasoning was along the lines of:
- Our laser thing is completely different
- We are preventative, and the others are reactive
- It looks cooler to investors and customers

In the laser link description, it says "focal length of 20mm. can NOT output parallel Beam" Would it be fairly easy to rig something up to make the beam parallel?

Different =/= better.

I'm not sure I see how this is preventative...? Surely preventative measures would mean preventing the weeds/pests from appearing in the first place?

I'm doubtful that you'll be able to kill off pests fast enough/in great enough numbers to make a difference with this setup. Getting the speed and accuracy required to actually hit them will not be easy.

It won't look cooler to investors when they realize the safety implications.

I'd take the description with a pinch of salt, I can see a slot for adjusting the lens barrel, I'd bet that you can adjust the focus. I also highly doubt that it's making 10W output power, maybe up to 7W.
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:21 PM #11
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

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Different =/= better.

I'm not sure I see how this is preventative...? Surely preventative measures would mean preventing the weeds/pests from appearing in the first place?

I'm doubtful that you'll be able to kill off pests fast enough/in great enough numbers to make a difference with this setup. Getting the speed and accuracy required to actually hit them will not be easy.

It won't look cooler to investors when they realize the safety implications.

I'd take the description with a pinch of salt, I can see a slot for adjusting the lens barrel, I'd bet that you can adjust the focus. I also highly doubt that it's making 10W output power, maybe up to 7W.
Alright thanks for your input!
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Old 05-30-2017, 05:32 PM #12
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Might look into wavelengths which can damage some part of the insect, their sensors or vision etc. making them ineffective at eating plants, or reproducing, instead of killing them. That would be easier to do. Some wavelengths might affect them differently, however anything which can do that will probably be harmful to animals and human beings too. Maybe look into some other device, perhaps RF, ultrasonic? Something which has a resonance with some of the small body parts to induce too much energy into them might be better.

So many problems to work out trying to get at the bugs, likely would affect the plants too but maybe there is a way to do so. All of these devices won't come cheap to build, unless mass produced but that won't happen unless highly effective. We already have effective bug killers, unfortunately toxic as hell, even deadly at spray concentration to human beings, so maybe a laser idea isn't so far out but setting a field on fire is my first concern, provided safety glasses are used and no one can get hit with the beam who aren't protected.

I'd look into the spectrum absorption of most insect wings, not just at light or IR wavelengths, but RF and sonic too and see if there is a wavelength which might affect them, maybe if strong enough and you can get them flying they won't fly no mo. Although might cause a corn field to turn into popcorn, LOL.

Ask this question; what parts of bugs are effected by energies at different wavelengths which are not harmful to plants, or at least at energies at a level which harm the bug and not the plant? What energies affect bug cells but not plant cells? Chaise after that and if you become successful think of me later
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:22 PM #13
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Take that so called 10 watt laser outside and destroy a some weeds with it, if you are talking about live green weeds you will discover this is no small task and it will take a lot longer than you think, it's simply not enough laser. Your robotic arm would do much better with a pair of scissors.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:27 PM #14
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

I really think lasering their wings might be the way to go, once flying but trying to get a small beam to cross them is a terrible problem, I don't think it will work. Maybe a line beam, if powerful enough. Using a laser probably isn't the answer, there are so many other things to try which will probably be far easier. Yep, green vs dry is a huge difference.
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:36 PM #15
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Yes green or brown foliage is a very big difference, I was just punching slots in green leaves in the rain, the laser doesn't mind the rain on the leaf, it's already wet inside, but it's not a fast way to get any yard work done, maybe a 100w C02 laser, but the fire hazard is still a big issue, as for bugs just hang a UV illuminated bug zapper on it and patrol away.
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Old 05-30-2017, 08:09 PM #16
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Default Re: Mounting a 10W 445 laser on an 'intelligent' robot arm

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
Might look into wavelengths which can damage some part of the insect, their sensors or vision etc. making them ineffective at eating plants, or reproducing, instead of killing them. Maybe look into some other device, perhaps RF, ultrasonic? Something which has a resonance with some of the small body parts to induce too much energy into them might be better.

...but setting a field on fire is my first concern, provided safety glasses are used and no one can get hit with the beam who aren't protected.

I'd look into the spectrum absorption of most insect wings, not just at light or IR wavelengths, but RF and sonic too and see if there is a wavelength which might affect them, maybe if strong enough and you can get them flying they won't fly no mo. Although might cause a corn field to turn into popcorn, LOL.

Ask this question; what parts of bugs are effected by energies at different wavelengths which are not harmful to plants, or at least at energies at a level which harm the bug and not the plant? What energies affect bug cells but not plant cells? Chaise after that and if you become successful think of me later
Thanks for your input! I will definitely bring these points up

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
Take that so called 10 watt laser outside and destroy a some weeds with it, if you are talking about live green weeds you will discover this is no small task and it will take a lot longer than you think, it's simply not enough laser. Your robotic arm would do much better with a pair of scissors.
Thanks. I'll bring this up

Quote:
Originally Posted by RedCowboy View Post
Yes green or brown foliage is a very big difference, I was just punching slots in green leaves in the rain, the laser doesn't mind the rain on the leaf, it's already wet inside, but it's not a fast way to get any yard work done, maybe a 100w C02 laser, but the fire hazard is still a big issue, as for bugs just hang a UV illuminated bug zapper on it and patrol away.
Thanks
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