more lasers hitting airplanes.

Because shit like this will only keep happening, I plan on buying/building as many lasers as I can. There will come a day in our not too distant future where it will be all but impossible to procure lasers and laser parts in the U.S.

Big storefronts like eBay and Amazon will be the first to start banning sales of ANY kind of laser.

I wonder if it is illegal to point a laser back at the attacker on the ground? Next time im flying at night i should have my laser with me. Dont worry, im a pilot, wouldnt do as a passanger.

CraigM said:

Because shit like this will only keep happening, I plan on buying/building as many lasers as I can. There will come a day in our not too distant future where it will be all but impossible to procure lasers and laser parts in the U.S.

Big storefronts like eBay and Amazon will be the first to start banning sales of ANY kind of laser.

Click to expand...

Outlawing lasers entirely would be next to impossible. We depend too much on them in our everyday lives, they won't just go away. Think about it, have you used something that uses a laser (other than a laser pointer) today?

Alaskan said:

I wonder if it is illegal to point a laser back at the attacker on the ground? Next time im flying at night i should have my laser with me. Dont worry, im a pilot, wouldnt do as a passanger.

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Where you fly, it may be someone trying to attract attention because they need to be rescued.

H2Oxide said:

Outlawing lasers entirely would be next to impossible. We depend too much on them in our everyday lives, they won't just go away. Think about it, have you used something that uses a laser (other than a laser pointer) today?

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That's right, lasers are so important to science and to our technology they can't be outlawed, but they could outlaw the battery powered ones but not the lab lasers. If it has to plug into the wall to use it then it's not so easy to do something dangerous or illegal with it.

One thing that might help is if kids learned about lasers in school, maybe when they have their first science class. They should learn the laws and safety and how lasers are used in science and technology. I think now they only learn about lasers from movies and TV.

Alan

Almost every Saturday morning my wife and I watch all 3 of the major network morning shows and all 3 had the story. At least one of them also threw in another instance of plane/drone close call. "CBS This Morning" also said that the incidence of laser s to planes is up 10x over last year. I believe they were also the ones in a report that showed an example of a laser hitting a cockpit but it seemed to have been faked as it looked to be an almost horizontal hit. Not sure if the story with video is on their site for you to check out.
Again, I just want to publicly say I and the other members here are completely disgusted by the fools involved in this. I am not minimizing what happened but would say that I have a much bigger concern for a drone striking a plane.

Pman said:

I am not minimizing what happened but would say that I have a much bigger concern for a drone striking a plane.

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An average drone getting sucked in a jet engine or an airliner would be disastrous! It would equate to a bird strike of an engine and would probably destroy most (if not all) of the turbines and the engine would be kaput!

As for these idiots still pointing lasers at aircraft it is extremely infuriating! Education about how long a prison sentence one can get for doing such stupidity needs to be reiterated to the public!!

Hmm any builders out there that make make a device to follow the laser back to its origon and give a gps loc and automatically send to authorities? Lets harch a plan to let them think theres such a device in use already

trussmonkey25 said:

Hmm any builders out there that make make a device to follow the laser back to its origon and give a gps loc and automatically send to authorities? Lets harch a plan to let them think theres such a device in use already

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Already the time delay for gunshots is used to find where a gun was fired. This requires multiple microphones in a given area to measure the time before the gunshot is heard.

Lasers are a bit more complex, but multiple HD video cameras from different locations could pick up the location of the laser line in several videos and do a calculation where the beam came from. So, yes a system like that is possible. Most likely they'd want to have it around airports.


Bob Diaz

A couple of reasonable quality cameras recording with a view down from the plane, along with altitude, gps coordinates, and relative orientation of the plane... that's really all it would take to track the origin of the laser beam back to at least a reasonably small area.

InfinitusEquitas said:

A couple of reasonable quality cameras recording with a view down from the plane, along with altitude, gps coordinates, and relative orientation of the plane... that's really all it would take to track the origin of the laser beam back to at least a reasonably small area.

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Like I say. Let's leak out a fake story on somebody getting nailed with this fictitious black box.

trussmonkey25 said:

Like I say. Let's leak out a fake story on somebody getting nailed with this fictitious black box.

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You may or may not be joking hard to tell --- telling fairytales, really?

Do you actually imagine that the adult real world responsible way to approach a real problem situation and resolve it is to just make something up/tell a fake story? To tell a fairytale that perhaps a handful of brain damaged people might believe if you could ever come up with an effective way to tell it to them?

Is a serious real world problem that the FDA, FAA, US Dept. of Justice, Homeland Security, State and local law enforcement all are involved--the penalties are FAA up to $11,000 fine and crimial up to 5 years in jail + $250,000 already. See:https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=12765 and USDOJ: US Attorney's Office - Western Pennsylvania

While it may not be as much "fun" as a hoax or practical joke--come on, be real. Suggest something useful, doable, and real like perhaps FDA should require all manufacturers to put a label on all handheld or portable lasers regardless of output. Maybe "WARNING --aiming a laser at aircraft is a Federal crime subject to a maximum 5 years in jail and/or a $250,000 fine + civil fines"

If it is a toss up for lawmakers between FAA concerns, pilot safety, safer air travel at takeoff and landing, and a small number laser hobbyists and enthusiasts----guess who takes the hit.

Encap said:

You may or may not be joking hard to tell --- telling fairytales, really?

Do you actually imagine that the adult real world responsible way to approach a real problem situation and resolve it is to just make something up/tell a fake story? To tell a fairytale that perhaps a handful of brain damaged people might believe if you could ever come up with an effective way to tell it to them?

Is a serious real world problem that the FDA, FAA, US Dept. of Justice, Homeland Security, State and local law enforcement all are involved--the penalties are FAA up to $11,000 fine and crimial up to 5 years in jail + $250,000 already. See:https://www.faa.gov/news/press_releases/news_story.cfm?newsId=12765 and USDOJ: US Attorney's Office - Western Pennsylvania

Come be real--suggest something useful, doable, and real like FDA should require all manufacturers to put a label on all handheld or portable lasers regardless of output. Maybe "WARNING --aiming a laser at aircraft is a Federal crime subject to a maximum 5 years in jail and/or a $250,000 fine + civil fines"

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That is a good suggestion as well. Anything to scare the hell out of would be offenders. What I suggested earlier, if it stopped one person from doing it, it would have been worth a try. I did suggest actually building a device to track the sorce of a laser and a couple writers came up ideas with how it could be done. I was just throwing out ideas on how to slow down or stop people from shining planes.

Not trying to minimize or spins things, but let's take an objective step back for a second.

No aircraft to date has EVER crashed due to a laser.

As danger goes, handheld lasers are an absolute joke compared to guns, cars, and things you can buy in any local hardware store assuming an average to above average level of intelligence and modest financial resources.

Where planes are concerned, RC Airplanes, miniature rockets, and now drones are a hell of a lot more threatening.

And where laws are concerned, more than enough exist already. I mean crap, there is literally not one person in the US who can even name the number of laws, statutes, and ordinances out there. Let alone actually understands them, and how they interact. We're living in a world that's over enforced and over litigated already.

While I do absolutely want these jackasses caught, and made to suffer some, I really don't want to see anymore laws, or licensing schemes. All it will serve to do, is punish those of us not harming anyone.

Encap said:

Do you actually imagine that the adult real world responsible way to approach a real problem situation and resolve it is to just make something up/tell a fake story? To tell a fairytale that perhaps a handful of brain damaged people might believe if you could ever come up with an effective way to tell it to them?

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It has potential actually. I mean look at how passionate people get in the democrats vs republican debates, and both spew fairy tales at literally every single election cycle to great effect :tired:

Edit: What good would the warning stickers do, given that the main source of these lasers is china, and chinese companies don't give a rat's @$$ about US regulations? Importing lasers over 5mW is already illegal... has that stopped them coming in from china by way of amazon and ebay? Nope, of course not.

noobphaser215 said:

Imagine what will happen if a laser is blamed for an aircraft crash.???!!!

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That'll be the day that ownership of ANY laser in the US will become a crime. And yes, I mean ownership not just misuse.

It'll be a sad day for us all.

-G

InfinitusEquitas said:

Not trying to minimize or spins things, but let's take an objective step back for a second.

No aircraft to date has EVER crashed due to a laser.

As danger goes, handheld lasers are an absolute joke compared to guns, cars, and things you can buy in any local hardware store assuming an average to above average level of intelligence and modest financial resources.

Where planes are concerned, RC Airplanes, miniature rockets, and now drones are a hell of a lot more threatening.

And where laws are concerned, more than enough exist already. I mean crap, there is literally not one person in the US who can even name the number of laws, statutes, and ordinances out there. Let alone actually understands them, and how they interact. We're living in a world that's over enforced and over litigated already.

While I do absolutely want these jackasses caught, and made to suffer some, I really don't want to see anymore laws, or licensing schemes. All it will serve to do, is punish those of us not harming anyone.

It has potential actually. I mean look at how passionate people get in the democrats vs republican debates, and both spew fairy tales at literally every single election cycle to great effect :tired:

Edit: What good would the warning stickers do, given that the main source of these lasers is china, and chinese companies don't give a rat's @$$ about US regulations? Importing lasers over 5mW is already illegal... has that stopped them coming in from china by way of amazon and ebay? Nope, of course not.

Click to expand...

Several good observations and points, however....

Yes no aircraft has crashed because of lasers---yet---not even the Egyptian Helicoper hit with hundreds of lasers--see: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/01/helicopter-laser-photos-egypt-protesters_n_3528371.html the goal is to attempt prevent the possibility of it ever happening rather than wait until it does to address the issues. Given the complaints by and the risk to commercial pilots and concerns and responsibilities of the FAA for safe and secure as possible air transportation, USA regulations and laws against aiming lasers at aircraft are reasonable and appropriate.

Danger is relative. I think the blinding possibility has people upset and led to the UN Ban on using blinding lasers as weapons of war along with other "inhumane" weapons. Eventually everyone decided --bullets are traditional and accepted as are many other munitions. If not killed, you can recover just fine like many other injury types. Being permanently blinded in less than two-millionths of a second is unfair, inhumain, and forever and should be banned, There is no prosthesis for a destroyed retina. Dazzlers are the workaround of the ban although at closer than dazzle range or refocused they to can blind--is a touchy subject.

I don't see having a law against aiming lasers at aircraft serving to punishing those of us not harming anyone anymore than other laws related to transportation safety.. Laws are laws people make them people break them--US has a massive amount of them---has always been the case. To have no laws or regulation is also no good.

Spreading fairytales is not anything that should be implemented with regard to laser information and regulations by responsible adults. Yes, especially politicians tell all sorts of stuff either on purpose because of mandate by the people who elected them or because of lack of unserstanding/comprehension. Is the case with people generally too, not an arguement for or against anythng other than education and awareness.

Warning stickers---well FDA could make it a requirement easily as it is FDA's area of authority and responsibiliy regulating sellers and manufacturers. Sure some will not comply just as some do not now, as you mention. I only mentioned the idea because this aiming at aircraft outlaw behavior has become a serious thing with serious penalties in the real world. It is not a problem or controversy that is going to go away anytime soon it has been growing for quite a while now.

If it becomes a toss up for lawmakers and regulators between FDA concerns, FAA concerns, pilot safety, safer air travel at takeoff and landing, Homeland Security concerns, Dept of Justice concerns and a small number laser hobbyists and enthusiasts----guess who takes the hit.

Gadget said:

That'll be the day that ownership of ANY laser in the US will become a crime. And yes, I mean ownership not just misuse.

It'll be a sad day for us all.

-G

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Yes absolutely. I don't think it will come to that.
"In the U.S., it is legal under federal law to own a laser of any power. But often people talk about “illegal laser pointers”. This is somewhat confusing shorthand meaning that the manufacturer or seller illegally called a laser above 5 milliwatts a “pointer”, or illegally promoted it for pointing purposes. Under federal law, it is perfectly legal to sell any laser above 5 mW as long as the laser complies with FDA/CDRH laser product requirements for labels, safety features, quality control, etc. AND as long as the laser is not promoted as a “laser pointer” or for pointing purposes.
If a laser over 5 mW is called a “pointer” or is sold for pointing purposes, the person doing the illegal action is the manufacturer or seller. If the consumer (end user) has a mislabeled or non-compliant laser, it is legal for them to possess it." ~ from: Laser Pointer Safety - Laser rules and regulations for U.S. consumers

H2Oxide said:

Man, this makes me so sad . Though that video from inside the sim cockpit is super inaccurate. No one can hold a laser steady on the cockpit of a moving plane, let alone in the exact same spot. Regardless, these people need to be prosecuted.

I feel like we need to try to spread the word that lasing planes is a serious offense that can get you jail time, since the government hasn't really done anything. Any ideas?

Click to expand...

a lot of effort went into this thread..

http://laserpointerforums.com/f37/anyone-owning-pointer-larger-read-90838.html

bump it w/ your feelings(often- we cant get a sticky)
afaik the majority on new LPF members are white late teens or mid 20s males- same profile of the average laser offender... so the thought was --reach out to new members to get them on-board asap and get them to spread the word as well-
many ideas has been posted
bumper stickers
PSAs
Ytube vids
:thanks: