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Old 05-12-2008, 03:02 PM   #51
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

http://discovermagazine.com/2005/jan...tate-of-matter
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Old 05-12-2008, 03:46 PM   #52
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

I dont like saying that photons have mass. They contain some energy which can be said to have mass equivalence but they dont really have mass, you are just confusing people. Photons do carry momentum of h/lambda, since they have momentum you can have radiation pressure from light, but dont say that they have mass because people think of mass as something they can hold in their hand and throw up and down so they can feel it.
 
Old 05-12-2008, 04:11 PM   #53
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by likewhat
I dont like saying that photons have mass. They contain some energy which can be said to have mass equivalence but they dont really have mass, you are just confusing people. Photons do carry momentum of h/lambda, since they have momentum you can have radiation pressure from light, but dont say that they have mass because people think of mass as something they can hold in their hand and throw up and down so they can feel it.
mass is something that exists and has shape it doesnt have to be a 20ton elephant to know it's there. indeed, electrons, neutrons and protons have mass and they're "untouchable"


there are some nice answers here..

Benm, are you saying that the magnet itself as an object can bend light instead of magnetism?

in addition, if magnets can have an effect on H[sub]2[/sub]O then if somebody lived under a very strong magnet then wouldnt he have growing problems or cancer?
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:16 PM   #54
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

So you can't feel the burn of a powerful laser? Light isn't used to cut solid material? I also believe that light doesn't have mass, (you can't weigh it on a scale) either is electricity. In regards to magnets, the connection between light may not be exactly "physical" or massive, but electric. Anyway, electricity is still a phenomenon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electricity :
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:23 PM   #55
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

http://van.physics.uiuc.edu/qa/listing.php?id=2044

Does Light have mass?

"That depends on which of two definitions of ’mass’ a particular physicist likes to use, and what type of light you’re talking about.

One definition of mass says that anything which has some gravitational pull on other objects has mass. By that definition, light has mass. This definition of mass is the same as the definition you get if you ask what ’m’ you have to multiply the velocity ’v’ by to get the ’momentum’ of an object. Momentum is a measure of how much stuff is moving which way. When things bump into each other, the total momentum doesn’t change even though it might be traded between the objects. Think of when two balls bounce off each other. Light has momentum, which means we can actually measure the push it gives to objects it runs into. This is the definition used by Einstein, for example in the famous equation E=mc^2.

On the other hand, physicists often find it convenient to think of mass as something that doesn’t depend on how an object is moving, also sometimes called the ’rest mass’. They call the mass of some object the mass that it would have according to somebody who says the object isn’t moving. Light always is moving, so by this definition (or more careful versions of it) a light ray has no mass.

Switching between those definitions can lead to a lot of confusion."


They say when you die, your body looses 28 grams.
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:42 PM   #56
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikokapo
Benm, are you saying that the magnet itself as an object can bend light instead of magnetism?
Yes. Provided you could make a really big magnet, you would observe it bending light. Of course it would have to be as big as the sun to do the textbook observations, but it would not matter if it were magnetized or not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikokapo
in addition, if magnets can have an effect on H[sub]2[/sub]O then if somebody lived under a very strong magnet then wouldnt he have growing problems or cancer?
I dont know about growing problems or cancer, but i can imagine it could have an effect. Short duration exposure to extremely large static fields has been proven harmless (you can lay down in an MRI scanner all day and be perfectly fine).

As far as i know little has been done to test lifelong exposure to multi-tesla fields in animals, but i guess that would be useless. We all grow up in the earths magnetic field with no ill effect, and very large fields would be something people arent accidently exposed to - imagine living in a house where every piece of ferrometal would shoot up to the ceiling or either wall... you'd go mentally ill, perhaps

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Old 05-12-2008, 04:43 PM   #57
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
They say when you die, your body looses 28 grams.
i never understood that, why does that happen?

------------

ok, now.

let's say light has mass and you want to cut a piece of metal with strong light

then you would apply the light to the metal, assuming that the mass particles from the light source will travel to the metal and colliding with it, creating friction and thus melting the material eventually, creating the effect of &quot;cutting&quot; through the metal.

friction would result by exciting the metallic molecules so you can state that light has to have mass to produce the effect of &quot;heat&quot; onto metal?


(i'm trying to figure this out..i'm not saying things really happen like that)

[edit]edit: one more Q, why is Tesla presented in such small numbers? (yes, small is relative..)[/edit]
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Old 05-12-2008, 04:52 PM   #58
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

They say you loose 21 (not 28, sorry) grams when you die because that is the mass of your soul, your energy life force. Once you die, it returns to the source.
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:06 PM   #59
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ace82
They say you loose 21 (not 28, sorry) grams when you die because that is the mass of your soul, your energy life force. *Once you die, it returns to the source.
what if i dont believe in souls and i want a real justified explanation?

(i know this sounds aggressive but i'm not trying to be aggressive)
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:27 PM   #60
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikokapo
[quote author=Ace82 link=1210459881/45#57 date=1210611156]They say you loose 21 (not 28, sorry) grams when you die because that is the mass of your soul, your energy life force. *Once you die, it returns to the source.
what if i dont believe in souls and i want a real justified explanation?

(i know this sounds aggressive but i'm not trying to be aggressive)[/quote]

*Well, there are many things with no satisfactory justified logical explanation (like electricity). *Why else would a body instantly lose 21 grams from dieing? *And it's 21 grams for anybody, a baby or a 300lb adult. *But I'll try anyway....

Where does electricity come from? *I believe that there is another dimension or plane, of which all life, light, energy, electricity exist running parallel to all existence in the universe. *Like a tree, has roots, then a trunk, then branches. *Energy would be the trunk, the point where all collimates, under the ground roots spreads to thousands of different areas and same with the branches. *We have infinite ways of pulling electricity from the invisible plane and convert it to what ever we please, even store it. *So when we are alive, we are connected to the energy plane through the need to have energy to live, as if we are plugged into a power supply. *Well that's when food/ water can object, but this is a different type of energy. *Magnets have a different type of electricity then that needed to supply power. *So our &quot;soul&quot; would be like the magnet's charge, returning (yeilding, as positive - birth, or negitive - death) back to the earth, or like a &quot;dead battery&quot; has no more energy, returns to the energy plane. *

This is only my theory, and I have no proof of it. *This is a poor short explanation of it too, but I'm only sharing thought. *
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:37 PM   #61
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

There is an explanation. It's BS! Look into it. It has been proven to NOT be fact.
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:41 PM   #62
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Ok, this topic is done,moderator move it to the philosophy forum.
 
Old 05-12-2008, 05:46 PM   #63
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by roSSco
There is an explanation. *It's BS! *Look into it. *It has been proven to NOT be fact. *
lol I was waiting for that. Another of my beliefs is to keep an open mind. Therefore, it is only a conception, and has not been concluded definite until I personally see a person die on a scale. And a man DID walk on the moon. :P
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Old 05-12-2008, 05:52 PM   #64
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by likewhat
Ok, this topic is done,moderator move it to the philosophy forum.
dont bash our thread!!

we are discussing STUFF!


ace, i still dont believe (i am sharing opinions also) in the fact that there is something &quot;material&quot; (if we adjust energy to have mass) that &quot;lives&quot; inside our bodies and escapes when we die, just because if it's energy then it doesn't have knowledge to know how to return to that source you say.
my justification would be that you cannot CREATE energy, just transform it. so for every child born you should then create the soul/energy for that newborn child.
if you say that the mother transfers that energy to &quot;create the new soul&quot;....then: there are no studies of a mother losing X grams for the transferred energy (if it had weight).
how can it escape the body and retain shape? (or not) dunno...but i still dont believe in it..


life exists because of the mighty Friction!
if there was no friction, nothing could exist. (p &lt;--&gt; q !!)



and again: why is Tesla presented in such small numbers? (yes, small is relative..)
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:17 PM   #65
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

I cant wait for this generation to die and haunt! There are gonna be a bunch of paranormal reports of green, red, and blue dots lighting matches. I know if I came back to haunt, there wouldnt be a lantern with a candle in my hands ;D
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:35 PM   #66
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

candle? thats for newbies, we now use romisen lights.
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:37 PM   #67
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
There is an explanation. It's BS! Look into it. It has been proven to NOT be fact.
I agree, this 20-whatever grams, (many different weights as it is retold), of lost-weight after death was creating by a single man, without any documentation, and perpetuated for several decades now, right here as we watch even. ;D
It is compelling to believe this sort of thing, I will admit, but so far, has no truth to it what-so-ever. If this were science, it would be a whole new brach. Try to find out where this info comes from, and the piers that have reviewed and reproduced this info, you will not likley find anything except for conflicting and wild claims by people with an agenda.
I am not trying to step on anyones toes, but this is definetly information that at best is highly suspect, and at worst, was originally an outright-lie, (in the 1970's I beleive).
Approach all information skeptically- &quot;exceptional claims require exceptional eveidence&quot;.
As we aquire information so much more quickly, we also aquire mis-information more quickly. We must use thick filters. Think about all of the urban-myths that are total crap. Open-mind is very good, but a &quot;container&quot;, (as in a mind), without &quot;walls&quot; is just a puddle of water on the counter, not very useful.
How did this get here from magnets interaction with laser-beams? :-/
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:48 PM   #68
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

dont know

the same as you can get this picture:




maybe we ended the discussion?

but there are still some things unanswered
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Old 05-12-2008, 06:59 PM   #69
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikokapo
[quote author=likewhat link=1210459881/60#61 date=1210614062]Ok, this topic is done,moderator move it to the philosophy forum.
dont bash our thread!!

we are discussing STUFF! [/quote]

Nice! I was going to reply but I decided to let it go. ;D


Quote:
Originally Posted by nikokapo
ace, i still dont believe (i am sharing opinions also) in the fact that there is something &quot;material&quot; (if we adjust energy to have mass) that &quot;lives&quot; inside our bodies and escapes when we die, just because if it's energy then it doesn't have knowledge to know how to return to that source you say.
my justification would be that you cannot CREATE energy, just transform it. so for every child born you should then create the soul/energy for that newborn child.
if you say that the mother transfers that energy to &quot;create the new soul&quot;....then: there are no studies of a mother losing X grams for the transferred energy (if it had weight).
how can it escape the body and retain shape? (or not) dunno...but i still dont believe in it..


life exists because of the mighty Friction!
if there was no friction, nothing could exist. (p &lt;--&gt; q !!)




As far as you saying energy has no knowledge, as to be it’s own entity to know where to go, is not what I meant. I mean more like a magnet’s energy is attracted to another magnet, has no knowledge to go itself. It is a natural characteristic, like gravity. About the mother losing “soul” weight for giving life, is like you said, energy cannot be created. So, does a windmill create electricity? No, it transforms from another source of energy (wind) using friction. The “energy plane” is where the wind comes from, where the sun comes from, where friction is able to exist because you need energy before you can have friction. So nothing can exist without energy! (What came first, the chicken or the egg?) So as a baby is born, it’s soul, it’s life, it’s body is like the windmill, transforming energy from the “energy plane” to this physical one. And if you where to reverse the windmill, you have a fan, giving energy to make wind. So when you die, the energy like a magnet, like gravity (or perhaps the complete opposite of) gets taken back by the “energy plane”.

I believe that the magnet itself will have no effect on a laser or any type of light for that matter. However, I feel as if the energetic connection between the electricity of the magnet (magnetic field) and the photons (light radiation) of a laser possibly using other materials could create some extraordinary devices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikokapo
and again: why is Tesla presented in such small numbers? (yes, small is relative..)
I’m sure there’s a logical justifiable explanation. I just don’t yet know what it is! :P


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Old 05-12-2008, 07:13 PM   #70
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Horse
Quote:
There is an explanation. *It's BS! *Look into it. *It has been proven to NOT be fact. *
I agree, this 20-whatever grams, (many different weights as it is retold), of lost-weight after death was creating by a single man, without any documentation, and perpetuated for several decades now, right here as we watch even. ;D
It is compelling to believe this sort of thing, I will admit, but so far, has no truth to it what-so-ever. If this were science, it would be a whole new brach. Try to find out where this info comes from, and the piers that have reviewed and reproduced this info, you will not likley find anything except for conflicting and wild claims by people with an agenda.
I am not trying to step on anyones toes, but this is definetly information that at best is highly suspect, and at worst, was originally an outright-lie, (in the 1970's I beleive).
Approach all information skeptically- &quot;exceptional claims require exceptional eveidence&quot;.
As we aquire information so much more quickly, we also aquire mis-information more quickly. We must use thick filters. Think about all of the urban-myths that are total crap. Open-mind is very good, but a &quot;container&quot;, (as in a mind), without &quot;walls&quot; is just a puddle of water on the counter, not very useful.
How did this get here from magnets interaction with laser-beams? :-/
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I highly respect the intelligence of this post. The water analogy is great! I was only trying to present a conception of energy in general in relevance to light (some believe your soul is light) having mass. I had no idea that it would stir up this thread into a philosophy / fact battle. However, with no attempt of stepping on yours or anybody else’s toes, I say that some people lack imagination, confined in a container only capable of holding a given capacity, once full overflows. An open mind is free to expand and exchange.
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Old 05-12-2008, 07:42 PM   #71
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Hell, I don't have a permission to post a link in this site?! And my whole post was ruined due to this?! Sh*t I don't even remember what I had written!

Anyway, Ace82 being open-minded is obviously a good thing, and scientific progress has grown thanks to such people, who would always question what's being said or taken for granted. However, you do seem to use some poorly defined (at least in the context of your posts) terms, like energy, soul or electricity (which BTW has a well defined meaning).

I'm not going to rewrite what I had previously written in this little box (the board wouldn't accept my post because it contained a link...), but in order to really talk accurately and yield anything productive, you need to stick with strict definitions; one may not hold the kind of idea you hold about what a soul is, or why it would weight a certain amount of grams (!), so the result can only confuse more.

Anyway, back to the original question, theoretically ANY object WILL interfere with the PATH of light because of its gravity field (more broadly the gravitational waves it produces). However magnetism is not responsible for this, this is because of gravity. I'm not sure if magnetism could interfere in any similar way with light (though I'm not sure).

If you're interested to see how gravitational waves distort space, and how the most powerful and precise lasers along with the most high-tech optics and mirrors ever build aid in the detection of such interferences, then follow this link:
ht*p://videos.howstuffworks[dot]com/national-science-foundation/820-einsteins-messengers-video.htm

OR, google &quot;LIGO&quot;.
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Old 05-12-2008, 08:00 PM   #72
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Book
Hell, I don't have a permission to post a link in this site?! And my whole post was ruined due to this?! Sh*t I don't even remember what I had written!

Anyway, Ace82 being open-minded is obviously a good thing, and scientific progress has grown thanks to such people, who would always question what's being said or taken for granted. However, you do seem to use some poorly defined (at least in the context of your posts) terms, like energy, soul or electricity (which BTW has a well defined meaning).

I'm not going to rewrite what I had previously written in this little box (the board wouldn't accept my post because it contained a link...), but in order to really talk accurately and yield anything productive, you need to stick with strict definitions; one may not hold the kind of idea you hold about what a soul is, or why it would weight a certain amount of grams (!), so the result can only confuse more.
Yeah, and if you where to have read one of my prior posts, you would see that I already acknowledged that. Like I keep saying, it is only an IDEA. The bible I suppose has similar intent (explaining ideas) however better defined? I believe I put forth enough effort for the cause. Perhaps it's in the eye of the beholder.

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Old 05-12-2008, 08:19 PM   #73
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

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I highly respect the intelligence of this post. The water analogy is great! I was only trying to present a conception of energy in general in relevance to light (some believe your soul is light) having mass. I had no idea that it would stir up this thread into a philosophy / fact battle. However, with no attempt of stepping on yours or anybody else’s toes, I say that some people lack imagination, confined in a container only capable of holding a given capacity, once full overflows. An open mind is free to expand and exchange.
Thanks for the complement
I agree about the open mind, without freely dreaming we would have no way to form a hypothisis, this is the first stage. Next, however, you must make claims based on this hypothesis that are able to be disproved through experiment, (in science nothing can ever be proved, only disproved). In this second stage and beyond, you are working to limit the &quot;open-mindedness&quot;, otherwise you need to satrt over at the begining with a new hypothesis-prediction-test cycle. It is all just a matter of what stage you are at as to what sort of thinking is appropriate . It all starts with dreaming, something I think we can all agree on. The next question, how do you test your hypothesis?
I did not see this as a battle, just some talking between somewhat like-minded indivduals, all open-minded, working together to come up with new dreams to persue, and test ;D, thank you for listening to my thoughts.
Back to the original question:
I am not an expert, but...was it not Eistien that first stated that light acts as both a wave and a particle, and this behavior is confined by the formula E=MC2? :-?
In a Cathode-Ray-Tube, (like a Television), I thought the 3-different colors of light that &quot;paint&quot; the inside of your screen are actully controlled by a magnetic field, (the color-guns). I thought there were no moving parts here, just a controlled-magnetic field, created with a coil? Not sure though, my guess would be that laser-light would be influenced by a magnetic-field also. :-?
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Old 05-12-2008, 08:32 PM   #74
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?


That's what I like about this forum... From Physics to Metaphysics and back again... ;D

BTW, I believe a cathode ray tube produces an electron beam, which is directed by the magnetic coils to scan a grid of Red, Green and Blue phosphors, thereby creating the image. The beam is modulated by the signal from the tuner. 0% electons = no colour for that pixel, 100% electrons = full brightness. (See diagram below)
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Old 05-12-2008, 08:36 PM   #75
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Default Re: Magnets + Lasers?

Quote:
In a Cathode-Ray-Tube, (like a Television), I thought the 3-different colors of light that &quot;paint&quot; the inside of your screen are actully controlled by a magnetic field, (the color-guns). I thought there were no moving parts here, just a controlled-magnetic field, created with a coil? Not sure though, my guess would be that laser-light would be influenced by a magnetic-field also.
these would actually be 3 electron guns. the magnetic field of the coils deflect those electron beams. in most CRT oscilloscopes the electron beam is deflected by means of electric field /by passing the beam between the plates of a capacitor/.
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