Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums! If you are looking for a laser you may want to check out the database of laser pointer companies. The link will open in a new window for your convenience.

 Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers looking to buy brightest diode laser. Laser Pointer Company Database     Laser Top Sites List     Lasers by Type     Green Lasers

07-09-2016, 09:58 PM #17
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,693 Rep Power: 1182
Encap
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,693
Rep Power: 1182
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Chrisbee I definitely believe it. The beams on my 85mw 520 and my 740mw 445 look almost the same, brightness wise. The dot on the 520 is probably actually brighter.
That you need 4 times the power to perceive ~ double the brightness applies only to same wavelength.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by green lasers rock That makes sense. Blue wavelengths scatter more easily than green, hence why the sky is blue. That explains why the beams appear the same brightness and the dots don't.
Human visual perception is a complicated thing/topic. Here is a tip of the iceberg chart of topics: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu...ioncon.html#c1

Scattering is one part of it, but it also has to do with how your eyes perceive the brightness of certain colors. Take a look at this table to understand how your eyes will perceive the brightness of a light source as a function of wavelength. here: Luminous Efficacy

You can compare different wavelengths of same or different output power with this tool programed by an LPF member rhd in 2011. t uses CIE table values. Raleigh Scattering is factored in if you choose "beam". here: Relative Laser Beam Brightness Calculator: (532nm 1000mw) vs. (445nm 1000mw)

Thread about it is here: NEW TOOL: Calculate Relative Brightness (of Wavelengths in nm)

Last edited by Encap; 07-09-2016 at 10:23 PM.

07-09-2016, 10:18 PM #18
 Class 1M Laser Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Bay area, California Posts: 217 Rep Power: 137
green lasers rock
Class 1M Laser

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bay area, California
Posts: 217
Rep Power: 137
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Encap That you need 4 times the power to perceive ~ double the brightness applies only to same wavelength. Human visual perception is a complicated thing Scattering is one part of it, but it also has to do with how your eyes perceive the brightness of certain colors. Take a look at this table to understand how your eyes will perceive the brightness of a light source as a function of wavelength. Luminous Efficacy You can compare different wavelengths of same or different output power--It uses CIE table values. Raleigh Scattering is factored in if you choose "beam". here: Relative Laser Beam Brightness Calculator: (532nm 1000mw) vs. (445nm 1000mw)
I commonly sight that calculator for brightness comparisons, but I have started to loose faith in it. According to it, a 100mw 450nm and 200mw 650nm should have the same beam brightness, and the red should have a much brighter dot, but when i tried my 100mw 450 and 200mw 650, I discovered this was absolutely not true. The blue beam is way brighter, and the blue dot is also brighter than the red. I think the brightness of blue lasers is underestimated.
__________________
My Notable Lasers

Skytech dual power pen 450nm 5/80 mw
Thor MII 445nm 1.3w(2 units)
Prome red 650nm 200mW
Laserlands 635nm 5mW(2 units)
EBAY 08-3 532NM ?mW(much brighter than 303s)
Sanwu 303 with pattern caps 532nm 70mW(2 units)

650nm, 532nm, and 405nm overspec 301/303s and pens

07-09-2016, 10:33 PM #19
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 2,111 Rep Power: 520
Atomicrox
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 2,111
Rep Power: 520
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

For starters it's likely your 650nm is actually 660nm, that does quite a bit of difference. The CIE table it uses is known to underestimate low wavelength brightness (not that much for blue but a LOT for violet). It's still the best scientifically acquired data available, AFAIK, and it does a decent job for most common visible lasers except for 405nm.
__________________
405nm: NewWish (29.1mW avg|5mW rtd) | Dilda (81.5mW avg|200mW rtd) | 501B by Blord (633mW pk)
low 445nm: C6 from Survival Lasers (1351mW pk|1289mW avg|1100mW rtd)
high 450nm: NewWish (12.6mW pk|5mW rtd) | Dominator by Blord (3010mW pk|2779mW avg during 5min)
462nm: 501B by Atomic (1507mW avg)
473nm: BWB-10-OEM labby by CNI (10mW rtd)
520nm: MXDL pen by DTR (31.6mW pk|28.8mW avg)
532nm: NewWish (28.6mW pk|26.8mW avg|10mW rtd) | Dapper (30.3mW pk) | Classic (120.0mW pk|103.1mW avg|100mW rtd) | "The Green Box" by Atomic (176.7mW pk|140.0mW avg)
589nm: Spartan from Dragon Lasers (58.4mW pk|37mW avg|50mW rtd)
632.8nm: HeNe pointer by Atomic (0.68mW rtd)
635nm: NewWish (4.6mW avg|5mW rtd)
638nm: Classic from Lazerer (409.3mW pk|389.4mW avg|415mW rtd)
650nm: NewWish (10.6mW pk|5mW rtd) | Dilda (216.3mW avg|200mW rtd)
685nm: laser-in-a-box by Atomic (30.4mW pk|29.3mW avg) | 501B by Atomic (32.4mW avg)
780nm: module (2.7mW avg|5mW rtd)
808nm: Classic modded from a 532nm (162mW avg)
850nm: module (8.8mW avg|7mW rtd)
980nm: NewWish (81mW pk|5mW rtd) | 2nd line around 490nm

5W Ophir LPM

HV: Flyback, Plasma Speaker, The Arcsynth and SSTC

Last edited by Atomicrox; 07-09-2016 at 10:33 PM.

07-09-2016, 10:46 PM #20
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 4,248 Rep Power: 2224
Pman
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 4,248
Rep Power: 2224
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

I think the issue is that divergence isn't taken into account. The calculator may be correct but when you try and compare 2 different wavelengths yourself for brightness it's not so easy as there's very little chance that their divergence will be the same. I would try both focusing them at infinity and then try it again with the lenses removed.
__________________
I'm not strange, I'm limited edition!

*Jayrob Star Trek Phaser*
# of Lasers - ***
# of DTR/510 laser adapters *
# of eGo/510 mods **
# of Batteries - ***
Wavelengths - 405, 445, 447, 450, 455, 462, 464, 470, 473, 473+, <515, 515, 520, 532, 589, 635, 638, 650, 660, 685, 808, 830, 980
Projector - PD2
O-Like mini red/green to yellow module
Beam Expanders - Dragon Lasers 2x & 5x with universal adapters
LPM's - Modified AW TEC, Custom 6.8W+ Ophir
Datalogger - ARG
Chargers - Ultrafire WF139, (2) Xtar WP2, Nitecore i2, UM20, (3) i4, (2) D4 , Opus BTC-3400 V2.2
Phlatlights - Jayrob PT-54 green 1000lm maglight, PT-54 red project box build, (3) PT-54 red, (2) PT-54 orange (3) PT-121 red, (2) PT-121 blue, (1) PT-121 green project work in progress 5000lm (1) PT-121 green

"Post your pics of unique builds no-one else has"
"Make your way overspec \$5 pen focusable"
"Pman special"

07-09-2016, 10:53 PM #21
 Class 1M Laser Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Bay area, California Posts: 217 Rep Power: 137
green lasers rock
Class 1M Laser

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bay area, California
Posts: 217
Rep Power: 137
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Doesnet peak visibility shift to around 500nm in darkness? That would explain why the blue looks so much brighter than the red.
__________________
My Notable Lasers

Skytech dual power pen 450nm 5/80 mw
Thor MII 445nm 1.3w(2 units)
Prome red 650nm 200mW
Laserlands 635nm 5mW(2 units)
EBAY 08-3 532NM ?mW(much brighter than 303s)
Sanwu 303 with pattern caps 532nm 70mW(2 units)

650nm, 532nm, and 405nm overspec 301/303s and pens

Last edited by green lasers rock; 07-09-2016 at 11:12 PM.

07-09-2016, 11:08 PM #22
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Yellowknife, NT, Canada Posts: 5,947 Rep Power: 1906
diachi
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,947
Rep Power: 1906
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by green lasers rock Doesnet peak visibility shift to around 500mw in darkness? That would explain why the blue looks so much brighter than the red.
nm* - and yes it does.

__________________

488nm - Spectra Physics 163 Argon 30mW
532nm - Gearbest 303 Pointer 90mW
~650nm - Sanwu Laser Pocket Series - 250mW
808nm - Melles Griot 532nm Lab Unit - No Crystals >10W

07-10-2016, 12:52 AM #23
 Class 2 Laser Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Roseville, CA Posts: 352 Rep Power: 782
CaliKirk
Class 2 Laser

Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Roseville, CA
Posts: 352
Rep Power: 782
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

GLR- I just got my 1.2w 532 from XPL and damn is it bright! The only thing that sucks is that the driver on myne moves so much causing the push button to stick and I have to immediately send it back to Hong Kong for repairs. At this point with the extra shipping costs I would have been better off going the 1w+ 520 route..
__________________
BDR-209 @620ma- 'lifetime17' S4 with G2- 1019mw max!
BDR-209 @530ma- C6 with G2- 760mw
BDR-209 in Challenger 2 with G7- 852mw
S06J Labby- 556mw

M140 @1.8a- c8 with G7- 2.24w
NDB7875 @2.4a- c8 with G2- 2.96w
Nubm44@4.5a- S4X with G7- 6.12w

M462 @1.8a- C8 with G2- 2.29w
NUBM07E@4.5a- 'Gadget' custom C8 with 3E- 4.15w

PLP-520B1- 'ElectricPlasma' custom with 2E lens-202mw
PL520- laser66 with g7- 137mw
XPL 1W 532nm- 1.41w avg 1.97w peak
Laserbtb 532-HL300- 380mw avg 509mw pk
Laser 301- 8 line special!
Labby from RGB setup- 197mw
Oclaro 700@1.1a- S4 with Acrylic- 578mw
Mits 500- parts but no motivation

LPMs-
(2) OPHIR 20-C
Hyperion Argentum

07-10-2016, 12:52 AM #24
 Class 2M Laser Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: New Mexico and/or Colorado, USA Posts: 721 Rep Power: 665
Rivem
Class 2M Laser

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New Mexico and/or Colorado, USA
Posts: 721
Rep Power: 665
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by diachi nm* - and yes it does.
Whether or not that means something for lasers is highly questionable though.

Scoptic vision (the shift for night vision) fundamentally means you'd have little to no color perception.

Considering you can see the color of laser beams fairly easily, you're very likely to be using photoptic vision which trumps any scoptic vision you might have.

405nm definitely seems to get WAY brighter when dark adapted though.
__________________
Now in the Member Collections Section: Rivem's Collection.

I am currently at a BUSY semester of an EE degree, so please forgive the inactivity. If you want to talk to me, feel free to send a PM.

Last edited by Rivem; 07-10-2016 at 02:26 AM.

07-10-2016, 01:42 AM #25
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,693 Rep Power: 1182
Encap
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,693
Rep Power: 1182
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Atomicrox For starters it's likely your 650nm is actually 660nm, that does quite a bit of difference. The CIE table it uses is known to underestimate low wavelength brightness (not that much for blue but a LOT for violet). It's still the best scientifically acquired data available, AFAIK, and it does a decent job for most common visible lasers except for 405nm.
Excellent point--the relative brightness tool shows 450nm 100mW being brighter than 200mW at 652nm through 660nm plus the actual output of those lasers in both mW and nm are unknowns --as are the diameter and divergence/power density of each unknown --as are the particles in the atmosphere when the comparison was made.
As one member put it:
"Basically, I think it's almost impossible to accurately determine the brightness of the BEAM
without considering the size of the particles on the air.
Which will never be the same twice. So all you can hope for is a good aproximation.are the size of particles in the atmosphere and so on."

Last edited by Encap; 07-10-2016 at 04:12 AM.

07-10-2016, 02:14 AM #26
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Yellowknife, NT, Canada Posts: 5,947 Rep Power: 1906
diachi
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,947
Rep Power: 1906
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rivem Whether or not that means something for lasers is highly questionable though. Scoptic vision (the shift for night vision) fundamentally means you'd have little to no color perception. Considering you can see the color of laser beams fairly easily, you're very likely to be using photoptic vision which trumps any scoptic vision you might have. 405nm definitely seems to get WAY brighter when far adapted though.
Of course - may not work at all that way with lasers. Certainly in low light conditions it'd make sense (light moon light or some such) that your sensitivity shifts to the blue, but I don't imagine it'd make much of a difference for intense light such as laser beams as you say. Was really just answering the question "does the peak sensitivity of your eye shift at night?" (paraphrased...).
__________________

488nm - Spectra Physics 163 Argon 30mW
532nm - Gearbest 303 Pointer 90mW
~650nm - Sanwu Laser Pocket Series - 250mW
808nm - Melles Griot 532nm Lab Unit - No Crystals >10W

Last edited by diachi; 07-10-2016 at 02:15 AM.

07-10-2016, 02:25 AM #27
 Class 2M Laser Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: New Mexico and/or Colorado, USA Posts: 721 Rep Power: 665
Rivem
Class 2M Laser

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: New Mexico and/or Colorado, USA
Posts: 721
Rep Power: 665
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by diachi Of course - may not work at all that way with lasers. Certainly in low light conditions it'd make sense (light moon light or some such) that your sensitivity shifts to the blue, but I don't imagine it'd make much of a difference for intense light such as laser beams as you say. Was really just answering the question "does the peak sensitivity of your eye shift at night?" (paraphrased...).
Not disagreeing with you pal. Just adding the "YMMV/with a grain of salt" statement.
__________________
Now in the Member Collections Section: Rivem's Collection.

I am currently at a BUSY semester of an EE degree, so please forgive the inactivity. If you want to talk to me, feel free to send a PM.

Last edited by Rivem; 07-10-2016 at 02:25 AM.

07-10-2016, 02:28 AM #28
 Class 4 Laser Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Yellowknife, NT, Canada Posts: 5,947 Rep Power: 1906
diachi
Class 4 Laser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 5,947
Rep Power: 1906
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Rivem Not disagreeing with you pal. Just adding the "YMMV/with a grain of salt" statement.
I know, wasn't trying to argue! Sorry if it came off that way
__________________

488nm - Spectra Physics 163 Argon 30mW
532nm - Gearbest 303 Pointer 90mW
~650nm - Sanwu Laser Pocket Series - 250mW
808nm - Melles Griot 532nm Lab Unit - No Crystals >10W

07-10-2016, 02:48 AM #29
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,693 Rep Power: 1182
Encap
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,693
Rep Power: 1182
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by diachi Of course - may not work at all that way with lasers. Certainly in low light conditions it'd make sense (light moon light or some such) that your sensitivity shifts to the blue, but I don't imagine it'd make much of a difference for intense light such as laser beams as you say. Was really just answering the question "does the peak sensitivity of your eye shift at night?" (paraphrased...).
"There is one glitch with the scotopic curve where lasers are concerned, however - it is rather unlikely for a person to view a typical laser beam using scotopic vision!

In fact, I can't remember EVER viewing a laser beam with scotopic vision!

Here's a big hint...if you can even vaguely tell what color the laser beam is, then you are not seeing it with scotopic vision!

What you are using when you view a laser beam under subdued or nighttime conditions (but can still tell what color it is), is mixed-mode vision (both rods & cones active).
In this case, the response curve is the combination of both the photopic and scotopic curves! The relative ratio of each will depend on how active each visual system is - the darker it is, the more it will shift away from photopic and towards scotopic.
Also, due to the much greater sensitivity of the rods vs the cones, once it gets dark enough for the rods to start kicking-in, you will see a definite shift in the peak response towards blue, due to the rod sensitivity peaking at ~505nm."
From this excellent thread post #29 here: NEW TOOL: Calculate Relative Brightness (of Wavelengths in nm)

In post #30 rhd who created the relative brightness too says: " The reality is that S vs P vision isn't about day or night, it's largely about light intensity. A visible laser beam is going to be high intensity light, even in dark environments."

rhd also points out: Anyway, it is what it is. This tool is basically ONLY a tool for easily applying relative sensitivity curves, with optional Raleigh scattering. Nothing more." in post# 53

07-10-2016, 06:43 AM #30
 Class 1M Laser Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Bay area, California Posts: 217 Rep Power: 137
green lasers rock
Class 1M Laser

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bay area, California
Posts: 217
Rep Power: 137
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

yes that makes sense. If you can see the beam color, you are not seeing with only rods. And when I say i'm looking for the brightest beam, I mean the brightest beam in a set atmospheric condition. For example using a 7 watt 445 and a 1 watt 520 outside at the same time on the same night and seeing which one is brighter. Is it possible for the green laser to overtake the blue one night, but the reverse happen on another even when the lasers are being used at the same time. Do certain conditions bring out certain wavelengths more than others?
__________________
My Notable Lasers

Skytech dual power pen 450nm 5/80 mw
Thor MII 445nm 1.3w(2 units)
Prome red 650nm 200mW
Laserlands 635nm 5mW(2 units)
EBAY 08-3 532NM ?mW(much brighter than 303s)
Sanwu 303 with pattern caps 532nm 70mW(2 units)

650nm, 532nm, and 405nm overspec 301/303s and pens

07-10-2016, 09:41 AM #31
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 1,693 Rep Power: 1182
Encap
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,693
Rep Power: 1182
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by green lasers rock yes that makes sense. If you can see the beam color, you are not seeing with only rods. And when I say i'm looking for the brightest beam, I mean the brightest beam in a set atmospheric condition. For example using a 7 watt 445 and a 1 watt 520 outside at the same time on the same night and seeing which one is brighter. Is it possible for the green laser to overtake the blue one night, but the reverse happen on another even when the lasers are being used at the same time. Do certain conditions bring out certain wavelengths more than others?
The imaginary lasers in your question don't exist in the real world--even if they did they are just outputting 1W of green and 7 W of blue both of which produce exactly the same brightness beam in a vacuum----no beam at all/zero brightness.
Start from there and attempt to understand and explain what is going on in any case other than that one---all the many parameters that actually matter defined and specified/nailed down

When you start talking about "subjective" brightness values (i.e. - looks brighter), you also need to take eye's brightness response curve into account--human eye has a logarithmic rather than linear response to light-is the point--It is your eyes response and brain that perceive a beam based upon brightness of different wavelengths/different energies reflected back to your eyes by particles in the atmosphere which reflect or scatter different wavelengths and energies at different rates depending upon sizes and number of particles or molecules present.

I know you are only 14 but the only answer can be---why beat a dead horse any more than you have already --just go do it and see in the real world what is what. Everything else is just daydreams as playtime entertainment of little "real" value at all at best .

07-10-2016, 09:57 AM #32
 Class 1M Laser Join Date: Dec 2015 Location: Bay area, California Posts: 217 Rep Power: 137
green lasers rock
Class 1M Laser

Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Bay area, California
Posts: 217
Rep Power: 137
Re: looking to buy brightest diode laser.

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Encap The imaginary lasers in your question don't exist in the real world--even if they did they are just outputting 1W of green and 7 W of blue both of which produce exactly the same brightness beam in a vacuum----no beam at all/zero brightness. Start from there and attempt to understand and explain what is going on in any case other than that one---all the many parameters that actually matter defined and specified/nailed down When you start talking about "subjective" brightness values (i.e. - looks brighter), you also need to take eye's brightness response curve into account--human eye has a logarithmic rather than linear response to light-is the point--It is your eyes response and brain that perceive a beam based upon brightness of different wavelengths/different energies reflected back to your eyes by particles in the atmosphere which reflect or scatter different wavelengths and energies at different rates depending upon sizes and number of particles or molecules present. I know you are only 14 but the only answer can be---why beat a dead horse any more than you have already --just go do it and see in the real world what is what. Everything else is just daydreams as playtime entertainment of little "real" value at all at best .
I am talking about comparative beam visibility in conditions where particles exist to scatter light, I know there is no beam from even the strongest of lasers in a matter free environment as with no matter to scatter light, a visible beam can not exist. I also mean the comparison of two lasers in exactly the same atmospheric conditions at the same time, not at different times. If the conditions are the same, the brightness can be compared. I know there are many facts that could create differing results, but i'm not looking for an exact answer, what I want to know is generally speaking what handheld diod elaser will have a beam brighter than all others when particles in the atmosphere exist to scatter light. So not lasers being seen in different conditions, imagine comparing all handheld lasers at the same time outside during the same night where the conditions the lasers are in are identical. With identical scattering conditions, the brighter beam would be obvious. This is what i am looking for. Of course, the ultimate solution would be for me to test out many lasers and see for myself, but unlike the vets I dont have the resources to perform such experiments. Someday
__________________
My Notable Lasers

Skytech dual power pen 450nm 5/80 mw
Thor MII 445nm 1.3w(2 units)
Prome red 650nm 200mW
Laserlands 635nm 5mW(2 units)
EBAY 08-3 532NM ?mW(much brighter than 303s)
Sanwu 303 with pattern caps 532nm 70mW(2 units)

650nm, 532nm, and 405nm overspec 301/303s and pens

 Thread Tools Display Modes Linear Mode

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is OffTrackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 09:44 PM.

 -- DarkShadows V5 -- Responsive LPF -2562016 -- Default Style Contact Us - Laser Pointer Forums - Archive - Top