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Old 06-23-2017, 10:39 PM #49
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve001 View Post
I read the entire article and found this tidbit further in...."But, something else is causing weak returns, and the drop off gets particularly bad (by another factor of 10) around a full Moon. In icarus, Murphy and his team surmised that is due to distortion in the optics due to heat from the Sun."
"One way to confirm this hypothesis would be to monitor the reflectors' performance during a total lunar eclipse."
"Fortunately, clear skies prevailed during the total lunar eclipse of December 21, 2010, and for 5 1/2 hours off three Apollo reflector arrays.....sure enough the efficiency immediately improved as Murphy and others reported in the March 1st issue of icarus."

So, dust was not the main problem with the reflectors by your own link to this article.


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Old 06-23-2017, 10:58 PM #50
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

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Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
If you looked at post #4, you would see I believe there are better ways of proving we've been to the moon than these reflectors. What do we learn from the reflectors? Mostly how far the moon is away from the earth at different times of the year.
And I don't doubt there is a better way OR many better ways, But this thread isn't really about those other ways, It's about lasers and how laser can be used as ONE way to prove we've been to the moon.

When I started the thread I was think "Hey lasers ! Lasers hitting the moon ! Hey I'm a member of a laser forum ! Hey I know, I'll post what I just saw on the laser forum !" The thought of starting some kind of debate never entered my mind at any time.

It's as simple as seeing something cool with lasers and wanting to share it with like minded people who might also think is was cool........................
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Old 06-23-2017, 11:03 PM #51
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !



I can almost smell the clutch burning as your mind works through this problem.
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Old 06-24-2017, 12:26 AM #52
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

I think your losing it, Or perhaps it's already gone ? Who can tell........

Personally speaking there is no problem, Not one that affects me anyways, I could care less if you derail this thread because it's nothing but a 52 second shared video so do as you like........


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Old 06-24-2017, 01:29 AM #53
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
I read the entire article and found this tidbit further in...."But, something else is causing weak returns, and the drop off gets particularly bad (by another factor of 10) around a full Moon. In icarus, Murphy and his team surmised that is due to distortion in the optics due to heat from the Sun."
"One way to confirm this hypothesis would be to monitor the reflectors' performance during a total lunar eclipse."
"Fortunately, clear skies prevailed during the total lunar eclipse of December 21, 2010, and for 5 1/2 hours off three Apollo reflector arrays.....sure enough the efficiency immediately improved as Murphy and others reported in the March 1st issue of icarus."

So, dust was not the main problem with the reflectors by your own link to this article.
The points are when Steve did this he did it at least 19 years ago and he did during a new Moon. Therefore cleaner reflectors an no warping caused by the Sun's heat. The other point is over the decades dust has collected on these reflectors that's why these reflectors return fewer and fewer photons as time has passed. Would it be possible to see naked eye twinkling today likely no. Did Steve see naked eye twinkling I do not know.

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Old 06-24-2017, 01:56 AM #54
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

It's one of those things that could be pretty hard to figure out unless you sent someone or something up there to have a look at them.

These retroreflectors have been on the moon for several decades. They could have gotten some dust on them, could have been warped by temperature changes, or gone a bit cloudy from bombardment by cosmic rays/particles... or all of the above.

Then again you don't need them to use the moon in experiments on a tighter budget. The moon bounces radio frequency signals back to us, and this was demonstrated before anyone had set foot on it. Using moonbounce radio you can even determine the approximate distance from the propagation delay - not accurately, but roughly (say to 10 or perhaps 1 percent) how far away it actually is.

One rather costly way to figure it out was to either send an inspection mission or even go as far as to retrieve one for inspection on earth.


As for people that want to deny moon landings and such: go fund a research project.

There are good records of the lunar missions including what equipment and materials were left behind, and where those are on the moon exactly. You could send a vehicle like one of the mars rovers to the moon and look if something is there or not.

Sending something 100 kg or so in mass to the moon is not cheap, but not impossible either. The budget for something like that could be a few hundred million dollars. This may seem like a lot, but if you gather a million moon-landing-deniers to pay a few hundred dollars each to get their final answer it can totally be done.

It is expensive compared to many other things, but pretty cheap compared to the amount of money spent on the lunar missions back then.

Plus is that there are new players in the game like china and india. They could opt to land their lunar missions close to apollo era sites and verify what, if anything remains, while carrying out their primary objectives.
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Old 06-24-2017, 01:58 AM #55
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

If this was taking place 19 years ago, that means the reflectors were up there for at least 26 years. I don't believe for a minute that anyone with a 25 watt 532nm laser, or even a 57 watt one, could see the light returning with his naked eyes especially if his enormous spot of green light after traveling 240,000 miles there and the same distance back had anything left to see. It is beyond the possibility of something that could actually happen.
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Old 06-24-2017, 02:17 AM #56
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

Quote:
Originally Posted by paul1598419 View Post
If this was taking place 19 years ago, that means the reflectors were up there for at least 26 years. I don't believe for a minute that anyone with a 25 watt 532nm laser, or even a 57 watt one, could see the light returning with his naked eyes especially if his enormous spot of green light after traveling 240,000 miles there and the same distance back had anything left to see. It is beyond the possibility of something that could actually happen.
Ok, so you don't believe it.
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Old 06-24-2017, 02:21 AM #57
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

With the naked eye NO!

https://www.space.com/20865-soviet-m...hod-laser.html
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Old 06-24-2017, 05:10 AM #58
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

Quest is 'qoute'quoted'quote' in this OLD thread (6/08).. and lots of fun reading..

How many mW required for this?
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Old 06-24-2017, 05:58 AM #59
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

That is hilarious, Len. Seems like people come back to asking the same questions and have little understanding of lasers to begin with. I imagine I'll be seeing this same thread several years from now with the same wrong assumptions, contingent on my living that long.
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Old 06-24-2017, 06:58 AM #60
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

You are all wrong, the moon isn't real, it's a 3D projection and we all live inside a huge virtual reality where nothing is as we think it is, it's just energy or information coming from a 2D surface projecting an 8D quasi crystal we see as the universe. I just watched a couple of youtube videos on this a few days ago, no mystery to me anymore All can be known through youtube Was probably set up by the mainframe for us as a learning tool. Now watching another video which postulates only I am real, the rest of you projections for my benefit. The mainframe gives me much to think about.



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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 06-24-2017, 09:51 AM #61
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

Dust On the Moon....

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Old 06-24-2017, 09:56 AM #62
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

Wish I had some of that dust in a vial.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 06-24-2017, 05:37 PM #63
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

@Alaskan, easy there partner. Did you hear about the little old lady, that was selling a lunar sample the size of a grain of rice?
Detention of woman during moon rock sting 'degrading' | Daily Mail Online

But wait, there's more.
https://www.space.com/11804-nasa-moo...-apollo17.html

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Old 06-24-2017, 06:20 PM #64
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Default Re: Lasers prove we've been to the moon !

Alaskan, you YouTube nut. I have some lunar dust for sale. Got it from Mt. St. Helens back in 1982. Send $1,000 to: The Right Church o' God, 17856 Chump Hill Rd., Jackson, Miss 73568.
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Thor H Dual Power 445nm, 438 mW & 1648 mW
445nm 1.75 watts SkyRay Gifted
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445nm 2.2 watts Nichia MS Envy

445nm 2 watt SMP Copper Host
477nm 127 mW 501B
488nm Uniphase #2201-20SLAT argon laser head and power supply >40mW
520nm LaserLands pointer Measures 510nm
532nm LSR532H-1W Laser, LSR-PS-N1 Driver, RS-75-5 P.S. 1300 mW
532nm 200mW Thermostatically Controlled Fan Cooled (Besram) >230mW
532nm 189mW pocket lab laser
532nm lasers X6 100mW-200mW
532nm lasers X4 75mW- 140mW
632.8nm P210 New Laser Tube 0.57mW Melles Griot 05-LMP-827-037 PS
632.8nm Spectra- Physics He- Ne #102-2 4mW heads X2 and #236 power supply
632.8nm PMS He-Ne # 201P/ LPS-115 2mW
632.8nm Siemens HeNe LGK7630S 7.6mW
635nm 1 watt Cyprus II
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635nm 5mW pointer
635nm 100mW pointer
635nm Lifetime17 Mini-camo build 687mW
650nm 65mW pointer
650nm 380mW 501B
808nm 1+W infrared laser
infrared video camera for collimating IR lasers
Ocean Optics USB2000 Spectrometer
Scientech Vector S310 with AC2500 10 Watt LPM
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