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Old 02-05-2009, 03:10 AM   #17
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schrecken_Licht
If you are talking about anti-personnel application of laser weapons, the best bet (as far as power requirements and killing ability go) IMO would be pulsed lasers. *A CW laser can of course drill a hole in something, but it works best if that something is perfectly still. *That's why CW chemical lasers (and soon solid state lasers) are being developed for killing missiles and rockets, and possibly aircraft and other machinery. *These things tend to move at a predictable rate of speed + laser tracking for use of conventional kinetic ammunition is already perfected + they also tend to be out in the open and exposed, for obvious reasons.

And with pulsed lasers, you actually need less average power. *At that laser shop where I worked they had a couple of flash lamp pumped YAGs, the most powerful of which was 400 watts (average power). *It had a maximum pulse rate of something like 200 pulses per second. *Well one day a careless worker instantly drilled a hole straight thru the palm of his hand and out the other side, and the laser may not have even been fully powered up. *The peak power of a laser like that is well into the multi-kilowatts, so if there was a solid-state pulsed laser weapon of a few KW average power that should be more than enough to penetrate flesh (and probably bone as well). *Then with pulsed lasers, there is also an ablative effect, and often a shock wave. *

A few years ago there was something under development called the "pulsed impulsive kill laser" (you can google that one as there are still a few documents floating around out there) utilizing that effect for anti-personnel purposes. *The name was changed to something else, because of course using the word "kill" in conjunction with a real life weapons system tends to be politically incorrect, though not sure why because most weapons of war are designed to kill!

I'd second that.. a pulsed YAG system would be way more thermally manageable as well, depending on "cyclic rate" (if you can call it that in this application..) The power supply would still be bulky, but whether it would be more bulky than any other type of laser would require I don't know,.. maybe not...
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Old 02-05-2009, 04:42 PM   #18
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Schrecken_Licht
If you are talking about anti-personnel application of laser weapons, the best bet (as far as power requirements and killing ability go) IMO would be pulsed lasers. *A CW laser can of course drill a hole in something, but it works best if that something is perfectly still. *That's why CW chemical lasers (and soon solid state lasers) are being developed for killing missiles and rockets, and possibly aircraft and other machinery. *These things tend to move at a predictable rate of speed + laser tracking for use of conventional kinetic ammunition is already perfected + they also tend to be out in the open and exposed, for obvious reasons.

And with pulsed lasers, you actually need less average power. *At that laser shop where I worked they had a couple of flash lamp pumped YAGs, the most powerful of which was 400 watts (average power). *It had a maximum pulse rate of something like 200 pulses per second. *Well one day a careless worker instantly drilled a hole straight thru the palm of his hand and out the other side, and the laser may not have even been fully powered up. *The peak power of a laser like that is well into the multi-kilowatts, so if there was a solid-state pulsed laser weapon of a few KW average power that should be more than enough to penetrate flesh (and probably bone as well). *Then with pulsed lasers, there is also an ablative effect, and often a shock wave. *

A few years ago there was something under development called the "pulsed impulsive kill laser" (you can google that one as there are still a few documents floating around out there) utilizing that effect for anti-personnel purposes. *The name was changed to something else, because of course using the word "kill" in conjunction with a real life weapons system tends to be politically incorrect, though not sure why because most weapons of war are designed to kill!

Pretty much what I said only better and with more examples hurray for articulation! However we must not forget some of the lesser known effects of photon hyper saturation, the possibility of radiation damage. In extreme cases pulsed laser have actually caused matter to "cast off" varying forms of radiation, this obviously has potential for weaponization.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:48 PM   #19
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

Quote:
...In extreme cases pulsed laser have actually caused matter to "cast off" varying forms of radiation, this obviously has potential for weaponization. *
I remember reading something about that effect. They were looking at the reaction as a way to enrich uranium 238 into 235.
I hope it doesn't work, otherwise every dirtbag country on the planet will be able to make their own nukes.
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Old 02-05-2009, 07:58 PM   #20
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

I doubt laser rifles will ever be made. More likely than that would be lasers which greatly facilitate aiming with a heavy duty gun ( Paint out a big group of enemies from one side of the battlefield, let the automated turret attack for you) to minimize actual soldiers on the field. Or just a high powered laser which would burn out peoples eyes instantly. Yeah, who cares about warfare rules

* I know this already kind of exists, but maybe more of an improvement on it."

Did anyone see that crowd control vehicle which fires heat at people causing them to disperse? Maybe that could be turned into a handheld laser. Stupid innocent person in the way of your sniper fire? Move him.
Pesky enemy holding out defensive position? Distract/move him and take advantage of the moment.

Just for the record, I dont believe blinding people on the battlefield is ethical. Or for that matter, blinding them anywhere.
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:30 PM   #21
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geneticz
I doubt laser rifles will ever be made. More likely than that would be lasers which greatly facilitate aiming with a heavy duty gun ( Paint out a big group of enemies from one side of the battlefield, let the automated turret attack for you) to minimize actual soldiers on the field. Or just a high powered laser which would burn out peoples eyes instantly. Yeah, who cares about warfare rules *

* I know this already kind of exists, but maybe more of an improvement on it."

Did anyone see that crowd control vehicle which fires heat at people causing them to disperse? Maybe that could be turned into a handheld laser. Stupid innocent person in the way of your sniper fire? Move him.
Pesky enemy holding out defensive position? Distract/move him and take advantage of the moment.

Just for the record, I dont believe blinding people on the battlefield is ethical. Or for that matter, blinding them anywhere.

Ahh.. the ethics of war. A contradiction in terms, really.. What is it that makes blinding someone more unethical than any other of the myriad of forms of mutilation that can and do often occur in war?
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Old 02-05-2009, 08:50 PM   #22
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

It doesn't. It just so happens that we are speaking of lasers, which have a slight tendency to blind when pointed to the eyes.

I believe all forms of mutilation and torture, prolonging imminent death and other things like that, making the enemy suffer, are all unethical.
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Old 02-05-2009, 09:03 PM   #23
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

Quote:
Originally Posted by Geneticz
It doesn't. It just so happens that we are speaking of lasers, which have a slight tendency to blind when pointed to the eyes.

I believe all forms of mutilation and torture, prolonging imminent death and other things like that, making the enemy suffer, are all unethical.

OK.. I would agree with that. I had thought that you were saying that blinding someone is more unethical than other forms of injury..
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Old 02-06-2009, 12:00 AM   #24
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

As far as future DE weapons go, I would say particle beam weaponry would be more feasible In a rifle type of platform. Whether or not it's true, tesla invented that idea almost 100 years ago.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:05 AM   #25
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

The Rules of Land Warfare are too confusing.

You can't use a laser to blind the enemy, but shooting them in the head with an ounce of lead is ok.

You can't use a flamethrower on the ground, but dropping napalm on them from an airplane is ok.

You can lay 10 pound, coffee can, sized land mines -that can blow apart three people at a time, but you can't lay 10 ounce, hockey puck sized mines that only blows off a person's foot.

You can't use mustard gas that can blind and cause scaring of the lungs, but you can use fuel air explosives that first crush with overpressure and then suck out all the oxygen in the area, killing any survivors.

I'm getting the feeling that killing the enemy is ok, but just wounding them so they can't fight, but might still live is a no no.
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Old 02-06-2009, 01:34 AM   #26
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

Quote:
Originally Posted by SuicideKing
The Rules of Land Warfare are too confusing.

You can't use a laser to blind the enemy, but *shooting them in the head with an ounce of lead is ok.

You can't use a flamethrower on the ground, but dropping napalm on them from an airplane is ok.

You can lay 10 pound, coffee can, sized land mines -that can blow apart three people at a time, but you can't lay 10 ounce, hockey puck sized mines that only blows off a person's foot.

You can't use mustard gas that can blind and cause scaring of the lungs, but you can use fuel air explosives that first crush with overpressure and then suck out all the oxygen in the area, killing any survivors.

I'm getting the feeling that killing the enemy is ok, but just wounding them so they can't fight, but might still live is a no no.
Ahhh the Geneva convention, its always the one who should follow it that don't.

Honestly all war is unjust and every act of violence unethical, what is not is the need behind them. If someone wants to kill, you have to act to survive, by any means necessary. You, a person of sound mind (because your not randomly killing people) have an obligation to survive and the antagonist should be dealt with as needed. In an ideal world we could reason with him (the antagonist) but in the real world you canít be rational with irrational people, you can't talk to those who are unwilling to listen. In such a case you have two options, survive or die.

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Old 02-06-2009, 04:01 AM   #27
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

The Geneva Convention bans the use of laser weapons specifically designed to blind enemy personnel; in other words only lasers that have for their sole intended purpose the permanent blinding of enemy soldiers. *Lasers that are capable of blinding people (which includes most all lasers in existence, military or civilian use) but are designed to be used for other purposes are not banned.

But yes, it does make you wonder what good these rules and conventions of warfare are when there are rouge countries and terrorist organizations out there who have no intention of honoring them! *Of course, there are some things that truly deserve to be forever banned, like disfiguring land mines that maim and kill civilians many years after the war is over. *This wouldn't be the case with laser weapons, blinding or not.

BTW, the crowd dispersal device someone mentioned is actually based on microwaves (or millimeter waves, as the gov't calls them - the word "microwave" conjures up way too many images of baked potatoes and popcorn - not what you want to think of when aiming at a crowd of people!) at a frequency of 95 gigahertz - the Active Denial System. You couldn't make that into a laser at all, though they are working on making it hand-held at some point in the future.
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Old 02-06-2009, 05:47 AM   #28
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

Is'nt the ADS a MASER?
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Old 02-06-2009, 11:37 PM   #29
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

No, it's not a maser technically, since it consists of a parabolic antenna setup. It's just focused microwaves, the equivalent of pointing a high-powered radar at someone. Masers work the same as lasers and require at least two reflective elements inside of a waveguide cavity..
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:41 AM   #30
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

Ah okay, thats makes more sense. imagine the ads collimated like a laser then....
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:09 AM   #31
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Default Re: Laser Wepon

The first battlefield laser has just been released by Northrup Grumman. Please click on the attachment and you will see what is being deployed NOW!

http://www.irconnect.com/noc/press/p....html?d=154600

I contacted a friend who is at the VP level at Northrup and based on our conversation, you haven't seen anything yet.

Hope you enjoy this. I did try to get a video, but for the moment it is classified.
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Old 02-07-2009, 02:05 AM   #32
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Yep, N-G is working on the JHPSSL for the F-35. the f-35 employs a lift fan powered directly by the turbofan engine. If you remove the lift fan and place the laser there, they can tap into over 27MW of power! more then enough to power a 100kW laser @ 10% efficiency. They would use fuel as a coolant and the tank as a heatsink from what ive read. The f-35 still has two years before they say it will enter into service though. Not sure how long untill they employ the laser after it enters service.
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