Laser "reactive" target?

I was wondering if I could get some help on this:

Currently, there a few laser dryfire products on the market used for pistol training. They replace live ammunition with a bore-sighted laser pointer which is activated by pulling the trigger of the gun. You can see one of these here:
http://www.laserlyte.com/New_Products/New_LT-PRO.html

I would love to have a "reactive" target, that would sense a "hit" and give me some kind of sound/ping, kind of like the "lazer tag" games that were common in the 80's. The ideal would be to find one that would connect to a computer, tallying up the hits, and maybe showing the elapsed time for the hits...

So, my first question is, is there such a thing as some kind of reactive laser target that I can purchase?

Thanks for your help.

Hmm, I've never heard of such a thing, but you could possibly make one. Do you have any electronics experience? You could use some photocells and an arduino. It shouldn't be too hard and it could log your hits. You could display them on an LCD.

But why not just go out and shoot bullets?

saves money, but you dont get recoil.
And yes you can very easily make one of these using some basic electronics.
solar panel hooked to a gate with a counter or something but if you go micro controler it would be nicer and they can hook up to a pc via usb, there are others that use Db9 cables and they are cheaper by about 10$

phototransistor would be an easy option I reckon, with a focusing lens infront of it depending on the size of the target you wanted.

Like THIS

Thanks for the responses.

So, it sounds like there aren't any "laser pointer targets" commercially available, but that it would be (relatively) easy to make one, for someone with a little electronics experience.

With my (very limited) electronics knowledge, you all are describing a basic "light detector"...so this thing would not have to be "tuned" to the laser's frequency or anything in order to have it recognize a hit from the laser as opposed to ambient light levels? Instead, the device would act on the difference in light (intensity) levels between the ambient and the laser? If that's the case, that sounds doable, even for me!

kiyoukan, in terms of a micro controller, were you referring to something like the STAMP? I have some very basic knowledge of that device, but never thought of it for this...

To answer some of your specific questions:
Uranium, the reason shooters practice this way is a mixture of cost (the price of ammo has "shot up" (little pun) in recent years), time (driving to/from the range), and convenience.
kiyoukan, yes, you do not get the recoil, but most of the best shooters practice various types of dry-fire exercises as part of their regular routine. It's not a total replacement for live-fire, but an addition.

Well, if you would tell me what you want, I could design a circuit for you.

And nobody uses STAMP anymore, they use arduinos. However if you have a stamp you want to put to use i could help you with that too.

Well, there are, basically, 3 different "classes" of reactive targets, for laser training (and there are also weapons modified for give recoils with gas and a piston, but this is another question )

The first class can be called "the poor man reactive target" class ..... basically, is simply a target with a phototransistor in the middle, with a circuit that react only to quick light pulses ..... it show you only if you hit the center or not, sounding a buzz and blinking a led only when you hit the center.

The second class is the "visual matrix" reactive target ..... is made with a grid of phototransistors and a grid of leds, usually in SMD form (but the first ones was made with discrete components) ..... the grid of phototransistors is scanned around 200khz speed, and when you hit one of them, the microcontroller light for a second or two the row and the column of the leds that cross in the point when there is the phototransistor that you've hit, so you see immediately where you hit.

The third class of reactive targets have only photodetectors, can be a camera that look at the target plate, or a grid of phototransistors, or similars ..... the microcontroller that scan them, transmit the informations to your PC via a cable, so you can see on the screen of your PC the draw of the target, with he points where you've hit, timing between shots, and similar informations.

The first type is extremely easy to build, the second type can be built, but require some programming skills and a lot of phototransistors and leds, the third type, i think, is more easy to buy it .....

Uranium said:

Well, if you would tell me what you want, I could design a circuit for you.

And nobody uses STAMP anymore, they use arduinos. However if you have a stamp you want to put to use i could help you with that too.

Click to expand...

Where go you get that from....:thinking:

The Arduino competes with the Stamp... need to the check facts
before handing out ambiguous info...

Embedded - Microcontroller or Microprocessor Modules | Digi-Key

About the BASIC Stamp Microcontroller


The LaserBee products use MCUs from Microchip similar to the
Stamp... and that's a fact...


Jerry

How about something as simple as retro-reflective tape?

^ For less than 5mW laser in a not too bright place it can work, but with too much bright ambients or high distance is inefficent, for more powerful lasers it's a bit dangerous, and for IR lasers it's unhelpful .....

Retroreflective tape inside a tube?

Uranium said:

Retroreflective tape inside a tube?

Click to expand...

Still, only for the visible units ..... some of these trainers are IR ones ..... (the one in the OP link don't say the wavelenght, so i can't say anything precise about it ..... also if, in the description, they wrote "showing bullet impact with a laser dot", giving the idea that is visible)

BTW, our police uses a more complicate system, where is impossible to place a real training site (put my hands inside one, times ago, for a maintenance, and tried it for test with M92FS and PM12S2 ) ..... they use modified weapons, with a sensor inside the barrel, a piston with a mass for simulate the real recoil, and connected to the system with cable and a tube for the compressed air ..... the "target" is a videoprojection screen, and the PC detect the "point of impact" where the barrel is pointed from the raster of the image ..... you can simulate a lot of "scenarios" on the screen, with distances, peoples, objects and situations, and have a sorta of "videoclip" of the shooting, times of reaction, precision, and so on to study, at the end of the session ..... call it a "too-much-growth-videogame", if you want ..... not a thing that can be built as hobby level, for sure

But this give me a crazy idea ..... if you don't need a recoil simulation, why not use a targeting videogame on an LCD monitor, modifying a BB pistol for make it more precise ? ..... after all, they work, more or less, with the same principles .....

Sorry for the delay, guys.

Yes, the laser I pointed to in my original post is a visible laser, it projects a red dot when the gun is dry-fired.

Reflective surface/tape: would certainly work, and in fact, the same company makes a reflective sheet that you use in adjusting the laser to hit "point of aim". I was just hoping for something more...interactive.

I actually found this:
Amazon.com: Laser Target Alarm Clock: Toys & Games

but even though they call it a laser target, my guess is that it's actually something else.

I also found this:
Strapya World : Laser Target Alarm Clock, Bandai Gun Oclock Red

which has several modes of play, but again, I think the "laser" they talk about is not actually a laser.

HIMNL9: Yes, I'm familiar with those kinds of training systems, and you can actually purchase them, but the prices start around $800!

I'm somewhat surprised that no one is already producing a commercial version of the "relatively simple" circuit target that several of you have described. Seems like there would be a market for it among shooters, since the laser itself is already available.

I drew up a circuit for you that will work. On the circuit, lift the "flashlight" up and down quickly and that will simulate the laser pulse. Here is the yenka file. You'll have to download yenka (circuit visualizer program).

You can buy everything at radioshack.

Uhm, i know i'm crazy, so are some of my ideas, but ..... have you never considered the option to build a matrix of leds, like, 9x9, or 11x11 , and use them as photodetectors ? (BTW, i said 9 and 11 just cause, in this way, there's always a diode in center)

I mean, scanning the matrix at high speed, with a micro, as they are photodiodes, and when the micro detect a light pulse on one of them, stop the reading scansion, reverse the power, and lit up the led for a second or less ?

I used leds as photodiodes, in the past, and it can be done (also if i don't have enough programming skill for write the program for the micro ) ..... only consider a thing, from the tests that i made in the past with leds used as photodiodes, i've seen that they are sensitive only to their colors and shorter wavelenghts, NOT to longer ones (i mean, a blue led can detect only blue and uv, a green can detect from green to blue/uv, a yellow from yellow to blue, and so on, so, if you want to try, don't use greeen or yellow leds, if your laser is red)

What about a battery or solar yard light. Put in a dark box with a hole for firing in to bullseye. You hit its photosensor the light goes out. These cost a few bucks at walmart though im not sure if they work with a photosensor or by detecting when the solar panel stops giving current.