Welcome to Laser Pointer Forums! If you are looking for a laser you may want to check out the database of laser pointer companies. The link will open in a new window for your convenience.

 Laser Pointer Forums - Discuss Laser Pointers Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion Laser Pointer Company Database     Laser Top Sites List     Lasers by Type     Green Lasers

05-04-2008, 02:28 AM #1
 Cereal Eater Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Argentina Posts: 6,334 Rep Power: 299
nikokapo
Cereal Eater

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Argentina
Posts: 6,334
Rep Power: 299
Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

the thought of a laser even hitting the glass on a plane's cockpit in mid-air is just ridiculous..

planes fly at MORE than 175km/h
a commercial flight of about &gt;1 hour gets to &gt;33.000 feet off the land (that is &gt;10.0584 kilometers)

moving on:

if a PERSON with a handheld laser POINTER would want to hit the airplane then, assuming he/she (lol we know there are no &quot;she's&quot has a very steady hand, he would have VERY little time and precision to even go NEAR the WHOLE plane, you cant really be that accurate aiming with your bare eyes at something that is over 10km away, AND KEEP IT AT LEAST FOR MORE THAN 0.5 SECONDS ON IT!

now,
lasers have the disadvantage of the damned divergence : so anybody with a &quot;decent&quot; laser (lets say, 1.0mRad divergence, just to have a round number) would have a 1mm thicker beam for every meter

do the math, at 10km off the ground = 10.000meters,

1 metre -- 1mm. divergence
10.000metres - x = 10.000mm divergence = 10 meters divergence

10 METERS

TEN
METERS!

that is, sirs, a LOT compared to the 1mm that comes out of the laz0r headz0rzz

and thus at this point we can state that, a regular &quot;terrorist&quot; kid with a normal green laser pointer, rated at &gt;50mw.
would have to hit the airplane with a circle 10meters wide. at that length the dot would certainly lose some power (it doesnt just &quot;lose&quot; power, you know what i mean, it is not 100% focused into one tiny dot anymore), dont you think?

that is why i think hitting a plane with a laser can't really blind a pilot with so little concentrated power. its not that we should do it, but the news coverages are making such a big deal out of this and i just thought to do some estimates on the real facts..

share your opinions (and correct me if you may) 8-) 8-)

05-04-2008, 02:34 AM #2
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 1,412 Rep Power: 95
VillageIdiot
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 1,412
Rep Power: 95
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Ah, but the media and the public think that any and all lasers have a divergance of 0 mRad. Everybody seems to think that lasers go in one line continuously.
__________________
The wild VillageIdiot is a land-dwelling mammal which is rarely seen these days. Some fear that the VillageIdiot is going extinct - others, think he's busy with other stuff. o_o

05-04-2008, 02:49 AM #3
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 3,876 Rep Power: 1454
Razako
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,876
Rep Power: 1454
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Lasers aren't a threat to planes that are high up in the sky. The problem is when people fire their 100+mw green laser at low flying helicopters and planes that are coming in for a landing. It is possible to flashblind the pilot to the point that he is unable to land the plane and needs to cancel the landing. That is what is happening in Australia. Lasers are also a significant threat to helicopters. Copters fly closer to the ground and a decent laser can easily cause eye damage at that range.

Of course the solution is strict enforcement of the laws and harsh penalties to deter further incidents. A retarded blanket ban on ALL laser pointers with a 2 year prison sentence for a little keychain pointer is ridiculous and impossible to enforce.
__________________
700mw 405nm Sanwu Challenger(782mw peak 730ish mw average)
Sanwu Spiker Series 3W 445nm
2W O-like 450nm(2.2W average/2.25W peak) and Ebay 450nm THOR M II laser(1600mw average/1700 mw peak)
1.4W Jetlasers PL-E Pro 462nm(average 1490mw)
5.05W 465nm build by AlienLaser and 3.5W 465nm Jetlasers PL-E pro.
50mw 515nm challenger(85mw average) and 5-30mw penlaser
1W 520nm Sanwu Spiker series with beam expander
800mw 532nm Jetlasers PL-E Pro (850mw average, 988 mw peak) and 450mw laserglow Hercules with X10DR beam expander
8mw
561nm project box build(8-9mw average 10 mw peak)
589nm Dragon Lasers Spartan 50(51mw average/70mw peak)
593.5nm 2-5mw CNI penlaser(2-3mw average)
638nm Sanwu Spiker series(860mw average) and 500mw O-like 638nm pointer
639nm Sanwu Silver Series Tribeam(1700mw average/1800mwpeak)
1W 650nm Jetlasers PL-E Pro(1038mw average 1087mw peak)
671nm 100mw Red DPSS labby from LillyElectronics
685nm box pointer with laserlands 15mw module.

Meters:
Laserbee 3.7W usb LPM

05-04-2008, 02:51 AM #4
 Cereal Eater Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Argentina Posts: 6,334 Rep Power: 299
nikokapo
Cereal Eater

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Argentina
Posts: 6,334
Rep Power: 299
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Agreed.

05-04-2008, 03:06 AM #5
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,238 Rep Power: 72
Murudai
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,238
Rep Power: 72
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Yeah, it's landing planes that are the problem, not those already in the air.

Hopefully the new laws in Australia won't last. They really are useless, banning them doesn't stop people from getting them. And the only place it's bad to have them is around the airports, so why should the other 99.9999999% of Australia not have lasers?

They should just enforce it around the airports, that's all that is needed.

05-04-2008, 03:19 AM #6
 Cereal Eater Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Argentina Posts: 6,334 Rep Power: 299
nikokapo
Cereal Eater

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Argentina
Posts: 6,334
Rep Power: 299
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

but dude, they should be able to track a stupid guy standing IN FRONT of the landing area....even with a greenie, the beam should be traceable

05-04-2008, 03:23 AM #7
 Class 3B Laser Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Utah Posts: 3,876 Rep Power: 1454
Razako
Class 3B Laser

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,876
Rep Power: 1454
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by nikokapo but dude, they should be able to track a stupid guy standing IN FRONT of the landing area....even with a greenie, the beam should be traceable
Australia seems to have a lot of incompetent cops/government officials.
__________________
700mw 405nm Sanwu Challenger(782mw peak 730ish mw average)
Sanwu Spiker Series 3W 445nm
2W O-like 450nm(2.2W average/2.25W peak) and Ebay 450nm THOR M II laser(1600mw average/1700 mw peak)
1.4W Jetlasers PL-E Pro 462nm(average 1490mw)
5.05W 465nm build by AlienLaser and 3.5W 465nm Jetlasers PL-E pro.
50mw 515nm challenger(85mw average) and 5-30mw penlaser
1W 520nm Sanwu Spiker series with beam expander
800mw 532nm Jetlasers PL-E Pro (850mw average, 988 mw peak) and 450mw laserglow Hercules with X10DR beam expander
8mw
561nm project box build(8-9mw average 10 mw peak)
589nm Dragon Lasers Spartan 50(51mw average/70mw peak)
593.5nm 2-5mw CNI penlaser(2-3mw average)
638nm Sanwu Spiker series(860mw average) and 500mw O-like 638nm pointer
639nm Sanwu Silver Series Tribeam(1700mw average/1800mwpeak)
1W 650nm Jetlasers PL-E Pro(1038mw average 1087mw peak)
671nm 100mw Red DPSS labby from LillyElectronics
685nm box pointer with laserlands 15mw module.

Meters:
Laserbee 3.7W usb LPM

05-04-2008, 03:31 AM #8
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,238 Rep Power: 72
Murudai
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,238
Rep Power: 72
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by nikokapo but dude, they should be able to track a stupid guy standing IN FRONT of the landing area....even with a greenie, the beam should be traceable
That's EXACTLY my point

I mean, surely it would be easier to enforce just around a landing strip rather than all of the country :-? I think they've totally missed the issue and gone all paranoid. If there is only one specific issue you want to manage, then introduce management and laws to actually deal with the issue, and don't dilute it out over a much larger area...

*smacks government*

05-04-2008, 03:55 AM #9
 Cereal Eater Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Argentina Posts: 6,334 Rep Power: 299
nikokapo
Cereal Eater

Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Argentina
Posts: 6,334
Rep Power: 299
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Murudai [quote author=nikokapo link=1209868110/0#5 date=1209871160]but dude, they should be able to track a stupid guy standing IN FRONT of the landing area....even with a greenie, the beam should be traceable
That's EXACTLY my point

I mean, surely it would be easier to enforce just around a landing strip rather than all of the country *:-? I think they've totally missed the issue and gone all paranoid. If there is only one specific issue you want to manage, then introduce management and laws to actually deal with the issue, and don't dilute it out over a much larger area...

*smacks government* [/quote]

i can already see modifications on &quot;Meet the parents&quot; so ben stiller says LASER instead of BOMB inside the airplane :P

05-04-2008, 04:03 AM #10
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,238 Rep Power: 72
Murudai
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,238
Rep Power: 72
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Hey, that gets me thinking.

What are the rules about actually taking a laser ON the plane? I'm mean, surely you can't just walk on with your 500mW beast...

05-04-2008, 05:23 AM #11
 Super Moderator Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Houston Posts: 1,932 Rep Power: 462
spyrorocks
Super Moderator

Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,932
Rep Power: 462
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Heres a quick diagram I made:

[img]http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/6458/********necc3.png[/img]

Notice how far away from the plane you would have to be to actually get a shot at the cockpit? That level of divergence isn't exactly unrealistic either.
__________________

05-04-2008, 05:23 AM #12
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Dalzell, SC Posts: 2,238 Rep Power: 610
Dr_Evil
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Dalzell, SC
Posts: 2,238
Rep Power: 610
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

I don't think there will be a problem if you don't carry the batteries in your carry on. Who knows though.
__________________
645 to 660 - Z-bolt BTP-8E, jayrob C6 w/LOC
638 - JayRob C6 w/ML520G54
635 - Z-bolt BTE-4S
632.8 - 10mW HeNe
589 - PGL-III-C 80mW(100+ peak/average)
543 - GreeNe
532 - Optotronics RPL-260, Optotronics Pen ~20mW
520 - JayRob C6
514 - Argon SL
488 - Novalux
473 - Lasever LSR473HD-80 - 107mW peak
450 - JayRob C6 w/PL450B
445 - JayRob C6
405 - Old Leadlight that Drlava transformed (33mW), 12x in a JayRob C6 host
Multi - 2214-25MLUP ArIon

05-04-2008, 02:09 PM #13
 Class 1M Laser Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 162 Rep Power: 9
Dingers
Class 1M Laser

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Rep Power: 9
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

If someone was really serious about it they'd mount a 500mW Hercules with a x10dr beam expander,
on top of a rifle in a prone position with a bipod on the crest of a hill facing directly into the landing planes.

You could pretty much trace the cockpit perfectly if you were a good shot,
oh and kill 300 odd people.

---

I expect the Federal Police are about to burst through my doors and windows in kevlar body armor,
sub-machine guns and flashbang grenades after that post.

05-04-2008, 02:29 PM #14
 Class 3R Laser Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,238 Rep Power: 72
Murudai
Class 3R Laser

Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,238
Rep Power: 72
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Quote:
 Originally Posted by Dingers I expect the Federal Police are about to burst through my doors and windows in kevlar body armor, sub-machine guns and flashbang grenades after that post.
...

05-04-2008, 02:59 PM #15
 Class 1M Laser Join Date: Mar 2008 Posts: 162 Rep Power: 9
Dingers
Class 1M Laser

Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 162
Rep Power: 9
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

Is that a witchity grub in your avatar?

05-04-2008, 06:32 PM #16
 Banned Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: London, UK Posts: 881 Rep Power: 0
SMIDSY
Banned

Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 881
Rep Power: 0
Re: Laser Hitting Planes - Discussion

I disagree- the problem is not with in flight but during take off and landing. This is when there is the mot danger during a flight and the pilots need to be concentrating the most.

A green laser pointed at an aircraft during landing would be bad news.

I attach a relevant video. Its a long range shot so the distance is further than potentially during landing and take off, the plane is a single engine and whilst it is slower than a 747 it is quicker and higher than a 747 would be during landing:

I am willing to show that under these circumstances, the danger of shining a laser at a plane is:

Attached Files
 laser_plane_danger.wmv (2.72 MB, 46 views)

 Thread Tools Display Modes Linear Mode

 Posting Rules You may not post new threads You may not post replies You may not post attachments You may not edit your posts BB code is On Smilies are On [IMG] code is On HTML code is OffTrackbacks are On Pingbacks are On Refbacks are On Forum Rules

All times are GMT. The time now is 05:52 PM.

 -- DarkShadows V5 -- Responsive LPF -2562016 -- Default Style Contact Us - Laser Pointer Forums - Archive - Top