handheld laser for signalling?

repur32 · May 22, 2017

New member here, and although fascinated by lasers (aren't we all?!), I have limited first-hand experience with the kinds of lasers seen on here.

We do lots of camping/boating/riding in the deserts of Southern Utah and down on the Baja peninsula and have always used satellite phones (only thing that gets a signal in many parts of the area) to communicate and coordinate between parties. But they're expensive, and even when combined with better GPS technology these days, sometimes a pain to try and get everyone from multiple parties all to the same location. We're hoping to add to the arsenal by using handheld lasers to send up a very visible beacon so we can see where the respective parties are and help in getting everyone to the same place. Not planning to rely on them so much as a rescue beacon, more just for a visual aid to help us see where each other is at.

I'm envisioning that we'd send up a beam and wave it around, bounce off clouds,etc while talking on the Sat phones. So I don't need anything which is on continuously (2-3 min at a time), but I want the absolute most visible beam that we can easily and clearly see from distance. Mostly remote areas without any urban light so it's generally very dark where we're at.

A friend brought a Wicked laser camping with us once (green or blue--don't remember which), looked like a light saber, said it was the "most powerful laser avail". Wish i remember which one he had to know what the specs were and then I'd just buy a few like it because whatever it was would work perfect for what we want.

Can someone steer me in the right direction and help me figure out what I need and if possible where to buy? (I'm tempted to just pull trigger on a few Wicked Kryptons or Arctics but not certain that's what he had or if that's what I need and I'm guessing that technology has evolved in the 4 years since I last saw a "big" laser like the one he had.

Trying to decide:
What color beam? blue or green?
Power? Hard to figure out what I need to spend for what I need since the internet is full of so many false claims but I was hoping to find something powerful enough in the $500 range. I'd pay more if it meant having something much more visible. Wicked's most expensive are within this range but maybe there's something better?

I don't care about burning stuff, don't really care about aesthetics, looking at it more as just a utilitarian tool.

Aside from color, power, and intended use, are there other things I need to be considering?

Thanks for any help!

lasersbee · May 22, 2017

repur32 said:
New member here, and although fascinated by lasers (aren't we all?!), I have limited first-hand experience with the kinds of lasers seen on here.

We do lots of camping/boating/riding in the deserts of Southern Utah and down on the Baja peninsula and have always used satellite phones (only thing that gets a signal in many parts of the area) to communicate and coordinate between parties. But they're expensive, and even when combined with better GPS technology these days, sometimes a pain to try and get everyone from multiple parties all to the same location. We're hoping to add to the arsenal by using handheld lasers to send up a very visible beacon so we can see where the respective parties are and help in getting everyone to the same place. Not planning to rely on them so much as a rescue beacon, more just for a visual aid to help us see where each other is at.

I'm envisioning that we'd send up a beam and wave it around, bounce off clouds,etc while talking on the Sat phones. So I don't need anything which is on continuously (2-3 min at a time), but I want the absolute most visible beam that we can easily and clearly see from distance. Mostly remote areas without any urban light so it's generally very dark where we're at.

A friend brought a Wicked laser camping with us once (green or blue--don't remember which), looked like a light saber, said it was the "most powerful laser avail". Wish i remember which one he had to know what the specs were and then I'd just buy a few like it because whatever it was would work perfect for what we want.

Can someone steer me in the right direction and help me figure out what I need and if possible where to buy? (I'm tempted to just pull trigger on a few Wicked Kryptons or Arctics but not certain that's what he had or if that's what I need and I'm guessing that technology has evolved in the 4 years since I last saw a "big" laser like the one he had.

Trying to decide:
What color beam? blue or green?
Power? Hard to figure out what I need to spend for what I need since the internet is full of so many false claims but I was hoping to find something powerful enough in the $500 range. I'd pay more if it meant having something much more visible. Wicked's most expensive are within this range but maybe there's something better?

I don't care about burning stuff, don't really care about aesthetics, looking at it more as just a utilitarian tool.

Aside from color, power, and intended use, are there other things I need to be considering?

Thanks for any help!

Green is closer to the Human Eye's maximum response
sensitivity.

Yes.... for any Laser >5mW appropriate Laser Safety
Goggles/Glasses are a must.

FYI... you are probably referring to the Wicked Lasers
450nm (Blue) Arctic. The WL "world's most powerfull laser"
hypeis just that... marketing hype. WL Laser's are way
overpriced and build quality is not that great.
Even back then there were more powerful Lasers and most
of them came from our own members.

It would have been nice if you introduced yourself to the
Forum in the Welcome section.

Jerry

10fenny · May 22, 2017

Yea I would stay away from wl with whatever you decide to do. Super over priced

Radim · May 22, 2017

Well, this is complicated question. It depends what conditions. Why do not use walkie talkie instead? Might have better range than laser if pointing on clouds. On long range there must be direct visibility - from side it is harder to see the beam and might be dangerous due to high powers needed.

Laser of green color is more visible in day, blue is better for night conditions. Violet is not suitable. Red might be interesting and not disturbing your vision during night. However it is not that visible as green and blue. You might want DPSS 532 nm green for good divergence (narrower beam) or less sensitive to damage/instability in mechanical/thermal way than green diode laser - 520 nm. Blue is likely only diode (465 nm or 445/450 nm), DPSS 473 nm will be likeley too weak (even it has better divergence). The power is also question but since I guess we are talking about class 4 (above 500 mW - half W) you need also to get a lot of knowledge about and experience in safety and make sure the laser is used safe way. Injury or death might occur (imagine hittig plane in serious emergency situation and disturbing pilots in saving lifes).

In other words - tell us more about your needs, terrain, distances and conditions you want to use your laser and the community will give you valuable and experienced advice.

Once you are sure of knowing what you want, we can direct you to the right product and company to get best fitting your needs and budget. Jetlasers is more for DPSS lasers and Sanwu more for diode just to give an example of companies.

Maybe you will find new ways how laser might be used, it is a very versatile light source.

Finaly welcome to the forum, get right decision and safety knowledge before ordering your laser and safety gear.

Stay safe and enjoy...

94Z28 · May 22, 2017

If you are in a very dark location and want to send a "beacon" I would think a green or blue is the best bet. Although green (532nm DPSS) comes at a much higher cost at higher output when compared to 450nm Blue diodes.

Honestly, the 2W 450nm blues I have made many of them and they are insanely bright in a dark outdoor setting. I would guess they are visible for a good distance. I take my C6 2W 450nm with me camping as it's small enough to fit in my pocket, and it can run for 45-60 seconds straight before needing a rest. The best part is that it can be built at home for a low price (under 100$) or purchased for less than 150$ pre-made with all the upgrades you could want (extension tube for two 18650, copper heatsink, G2 lens, GITD switch cap, etc).

Just an opinion; Don't spend 500$ on an arctic when you can get the same thing in a smaller package for much less. In fact I have a JetLasers 2w+ for sale in the Buy/Sell section which is a large frame and highly trusted build. It also uses large capacity 26650 batteries and the duty cycle is much longer than you'll need. Not to mention anything JetLasers will absolutely outperform a WickedLaser unit in every category.

Hope you find the right unit for your needs! Do your research on whatever you choose, most any laser worth buying will be mentioned here on LPF somewhere.

Alaskan · May 22, 2017

Aside from the hazard of someone accidentally flashing a party member in the eye, I'd look at one of these JetLaser units with a beam expander on it to reduce the divergence so the beam stays far tighter for a much longer distance to make it easier to see. Can't count on clouds every time you are out or whether low enough to spot.

Screen%20Shot%202017-05-23%20at%201.15.27%20AM.png

These would be better than a DPSS 532 nm green laser because they can operate in cold temperatures, 532 nm DPSS green are temperature sensitive and don't like to output much power when cold.

steve001 · May 23, 2017

repur32 said:
New member here, and although fascinated by lasers (aren't we all?!), I have limited first-hand experience with the kinds of lasers seen on here.

We do lots of camping/boating/riding in the deserts of Southern Utah and down on the Baja peninsula and have always used satellite phones (only thing that gets a signal in many parts of the area) to communicate and coordinate between parties. But they're expensive, and even when combined with better GPS technology these days, sometimes a pain to try and get everyone from multiple parties all to the same location. We're hoping to add to the arsenal by using handheld lasers to send up a very visible beacon so we can see where the respective parties are and help in getting everyone to the same place. Not planning to rely on them so much as a rescue beacon, more just for a visual aid to help us see where each other is at.

I'm envisioning that we'd send up a beam and wave it around, bounce off clouds,etc while talking on the Sat phones. So I don't need anything which is on continuously (2-3 min at a time), but I want the absolute most visible beam that we can easily and clearly see from distance. Mostly remote areas without any urban light so it's generally very dark where we're at.

A friend brought a Wicked laser camping with us once (green or blue--don't remember which), looked like a light saber, said it was the "most powerful laser avail". Wish i remember which one he had to know what the specs were and then I'd just buy a few like it because whatever it was would work perfect for what we want.

Can someone steer me in the right direction and help me figure out what I need and if possible where to buy? (I'm tempted to just pull trigger on a few Wicked Kryptons or Arctics but not certain that's what he had or if that's what I need and I'm guessing that technology has evolved in the 4 years since I last saw a "big" laser like the one he had.

Trying to decide:
What color beam? blue or green?
Power? Hard to figure out what I need to spend for what I need since the internet is full of so many false claims but I was hoping to find something powerful enough in the $500 range. I'd pay more if it meant having something much more visible. Wicked's most expensive are within this range but maybe there's something better?

I don't care about burning stuff, don't really care about aesthetics, looking at it more as just a utilitarian tool.

Aside from color, power, and intended use, are there other things I need to be considering?

Thanks for any help!

Interesting idea, but not really practical. In dry air you won't see a thing. You won't see a spot on clouds either, clouds are poor reflectors. In humid air or dusty you might see a beam, if you do you're close enough that you could likely use a 5mw 532nm laser an point it in the direction of your friends. It would be easier to use longitude and latitude coordinates to meet up. High lumen led flashlights would be practical and utilitarian in this situation. If you're set on the idea then do it with Class 4 lasers blue or 532nm green.

Alaskan · May 23, 2017

I had concerns about such too, once set a laser pointing up and walked 500 feet away, even at 1 watt of green, the beam just isn't very bright.

Radim · May 23, 2017

Yes, that's true as Alaskan said. The best possible use would be looong range signaling by pointing supposed direction with spreaded beam (for larger coverage), still there might be flashlight designed for that purposes more useful (and safe). Or you might point some reference point (hill, rock, etc.). Maybe you need strobe function as flashing light attracts more attention. Maybe stroboscope designed for that. I use kind of small stroboscope for night scuba diving, there is a little flashlamp like in camera flash. It's powered by three AA batts, I have seen model using just two as well. Very visible and lasts quite long. Laser might be cool but not fitting your needs. Still there might be other uses, where you can find reason why to get it.

Alaskan · May 23, 2017

A strobe with a parabolic reflector behind it pointing up ought to light up the spot.

repur32 · May 23, 2017

This is awesome info--thx for all the responses!

lasersbee said:
for any Laser >5mW appropriate Laser Safety
Goggles/Glasses are a must.

FYI... you are probably referring to the Wicked Lasers
450nm (Blue) Arctic. The WL "world's most powerfull laser"
hypeis just that... marketing hype. WL Laser's are way
overpriced and build quality is not that great.
Even back then there were more powerful Lasers and most
of them came from our own members.

Yep--that's probably what he had. Very cool! I'd never seen anything like it in person. Only pics of large lasers online. To see that big visible beam in person was dramatic! No wonder there's a forum out there dedicated to these things!

It would have been nice if you introduced yourself to the
Forum in the Welcome section.

My bad--sorry.

Jerry

Radim said:
Well, this is complicated question. It depends what conditions. Why do not use walkie talkie instead? Might have better range than laser if pointing on clouds. On long range there must be direct visibility - from side it is harder to see the beam and might be dangerous due to high powers needed.

We have satellite phones that we take most of the time, although not all vehicles/parties have them. We also have 2-way radios in all the trucks. But even so, it's always a hassle to communicate so I was hoping to add one more tool to the arsenal to make it a bit easier.

Laser of green color is more visible in day, blue is better for night conditions. Violet is not suitable. Red might be interesting and not disturbing your vision during night. However it is not that visible as green and blue. You might want DPSS 532 nm green for good divergence (narrower beam) or less sensitive to damage/instability in mechanical/thermal way than green diode laser - 520 nm. Blue is likely only diode (465 nm or 445/450 nm), DPSS 473 nm will be likeley too weak (even it has better divergence). The power is also question but since I guess we are talking about class 4 (above 500 mW - half W) you need also to get a lot of knowledge about and experience in safety and make sure the laser is used safe way. Injury or death might occur (imagine hittig plane in serious emergency situation and disturbing pilots in saving lifes).

Good point about the sensitivity to temp and mechanical damage from jostling about. We'd probably lug them around in padded pelican cases like the other electronics gear we take, and we're not out in really bitter cold very often. I'm sorry--did you say 520 nm green was LESS sensitive to shock and cold?

In other words - tell us more about your needs, terrain, distances and conditions you want to use your laser and the community will give you valuable and experienced advice.

terrain, distance, conditions all vary depending on the trip. When at Lake powell last time, we were on boats down in deep and windy slot canyons trying to direct everyone to the same spot. I thought if we could have just shot up a beacon from down inside the slot, we'd be able to get visual reference where our respective parties were and then try to coordinate. But it sounds like distance might pose a problem if the beam isn't visible on a clear night from more than a mile or so.

Down in Baja, there are lots of silt beds that we'll usually stomp up a big cloud of dust and then use LED riding lights to shine up through the cloud. It works ok, but I though a really wide, colored laser beam shining up through the dust cloud would probably have been much more visible

Stay safe and enjoy...

steve001 said:
Interesting idea, but not really practical. In dry air you won't see a thing. You won't see a spot on clouds either, clouds are poor reflectors. In humid air or dusty you might see a beam, if you do you're close enough that you could likely use a 5mw 532nm laser an point it in the direction of your friends. It would be easier to use longitude and latitude coordinates to meet up. High lumen led flashlights would be practical and utilitarian in this situation. If you're set on the idea then do it with Class 4 lasers blue or 532nm green.

yeah--I wasn't sure about how visible it would be in different conditions. We have insanely bright LED lights on all the vehicles and bikes, and that's what we use now for visual reference but unless there's dust, fog, something in the air, the LED beam gets lost, and at best, all you can see is the ground glowing from a distance. Down in slot canyons, behind rock formations, etc--we often can't see their lights. Sounds like we'll likely have the same problem even with a laser beam

Radim said:
Yes, that's true as Alaskan said. The best possible use would be looong range signaling by pointing supposed direction with spreaded beam (for larger coverage), still there might be flashlight designed for that purposes more useful (and safe). Or you might point some reference point (hill, rock, etc.). Maybe you need strobe function as flashing light attracts more attention. Maybe stroboscope designed for that. I use kind of small stroboscope for night scuba diving, there is a little flashlamp like in camera flash. It's powered by three AA batts, I have seen model using just two as well. Very visible and lasts quite long. Laser might be cool but not fitting your needs. Still there might be other uses, where you can find reason why to get it.

The strobe is an interesting idea. I hadn't thought of anything like that. That might be pretty visible. I'll have to look into whether or not I can just buy/add some kind of strobe module to the super powerful riding lights we have.

For the nominal expense, I'll probably still buy a couple to take along, even if they don't perform the exact beacon function like I'd envisioned. pointing out rock formations or landmarks that we can use as visual reference, use on dusty or foggy nights, etc.--I'm sure we'll find some kind of use for it.

I can get a 5W 445nm from Jet for around $400. Sounds like a better company and better laser than the 3.5W Arctic from Wicked.

Thx for the input! I need to do a little more reading and research I guess.

Save

Alaskan · May 23, 2017

445nm is a fairly short wavelength for signalling, our eyes are only about 10 percent as sensitive to that wavelength compared to green, or in other words, you can have a green laser pointer at 10 percent the power and it should be just about as bright, compared to a blue at that short of a wavelength. If you really want to use blue, for what ever reason, go with 462 nm or longer, will give you a few more percent of brightness for the same power. Now you could go with a 7 watt 445 nm NUBM44 laser and blast a lot of power to make up for our eyes insensitivity to that wavelength, but the you have a more hazardous pointer. I'd think the strobe in front of a parabolic mirror would be better, just aim it at the top of something high, should be visible for a long distance, more effective than a tiny little laser beam.

repur32 · May 23, 2017

Alaskan said:
Aside from the hazard of someone accidentally flashing a party member in the eye, I'd look at one of these JetLaser units with a beam expander on it to reduce the divergence so the beam stays far tighter for a much longer distance to make it easier to see. Can't count on clouds every time you are out or whether low enough to spot.

These would be better than a DPSS 532 nm green laser because they can operate in cold temperatures, 532 nm DPSS green are temperature sensitive and don't like to output much power when cold.

Thanks Alaskan

So the 520 nm is better in the cold, which is good to know.

Jet has 2 different 520 nm

PL-E Pro and the PL-E Mini (the one you linked). As the name implies, is it just the size of the case which is different? Both are 1W and I assume the beam would be similar with either?

10fenny · May 23, 2017

Dpss 532 is better cold. 520nm is direct diode.

repur32 · May 23, 2017

Alaskan said:
445nm is a fairly short wavelength for signalling, our eyes are only about 10 percent as sensitive to that wavelength compared to green, or in other words, you can have a green laser pointer at 10 percent the power and it should be just about as bright, compared to a blue at that short of a wavelength. If you really want to use blue, for what ever reason, go with 462 nm or longer, will give you a few more percent of brightness for the same power. Now you could go with a 7 watt 445 nm NUBM44 laser and blast a lot of power to make up for our eyes insensitivity to that wavelength, but the you have a more hazardous pointer. I'd think the strobe in front of a parabolic mirror would be better, just aim it at the top of something high, should be visible for a long distance, more effective than a tiny little laser beam.

I was actually thinking about getting one of each (blue and green). The more I read on here, and the more pics I see of units that other members have, the cooler I think they are and even if not optimal for signalling as originally intended, I still think it would be cool to own.

For signalling, I really like the parabolic mirror and the strobe idea. Our riding lights are in a mirrored housing. I'll have to look into how to add strobe feature to the existing lights. Some of my tactical flashlights have strobe mode. I'm guessing there's some kind of module I can buy and splice inline to our big lamps.

Radim · May 23, 2017

You are welcome.
And yes - diodes are not that sensitive from obvious reasons. DPSS lasers sometimes even called DPSS frequency doubled lasers (DPSS stands for diode pumped solid state lasers) are sensitive due to their complexity. They are producing the visible beam through indirect proces: There is infrared laserdiode pumping energy into special crystal producing again infrared radiation (however of longer wavelength) - it is the solid state laser - and this radiation is frequency doubled by another crystal to produce visible wavelength (there is also infrared filter incorporated to block residual infrared radiation and allowing to pass only visible). As you can see much more components are used and therefore it is important to treat them gently as they might become misaligned during shock and laser will stop working. Also they are temperature sensitive in producing stable output and crystals might be sensitive to humidity as well. Diode laser, well there is just a diode directly giving you visible light instead of all the components I described you above. There are cons and pros of both technologies. I personally like more DPSS.

Take your time and make your decision wisely. Even I did not have any problem with Wicked Lasers (but they have quite bad reputation here from the past), I would select JetLasers or Sanwu. They have much more options than WL and with JetLasers I can confirm you will be treaten in extraordinary way and with valuable advice from customer care if you ask for it - they will go beyond their duty to make sure you are satisfied (see my review for reference - link in my signature). I have no experience with Sanwu, but they are well respected here as well. And in deed I consider acquiring their pocket series for my laserpainting needs and maybe even their 7 W beast. And one more thing - WL do not deliver high powered lasers into US anymore as a consequence you might get them from second hand buy at incredibly high prices as they are more collector items. So it is not wise for practical reason to buy specificaly WL in US.

handheld laser for signalling?

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