Old 07-05-2015, 10:54 AM #1
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Default Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Was randomly going on Youtube & found the following video:


-Alex


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Old 07-05-2015, 01:58 PM #2
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Nice find Alex
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Old 07-05-2015, 04:05 PM #3
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

From what I understand, the lasorb is just a TVS diode. TVS diodes are $1 or less, and the lasorb retails for ~$10, last I checked.
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Old 07-03-2016, 06:28 AM #4
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
From what I understand, the lasorb is just a TVS diode. TVS diodes are $1 or less, and the lasorb retails for ~$10, last I checked.
I've seen several people with this misconception here on Laser Pointer Forums, and I guess a few other places too. I guess without a thorough investigation, that might be an easy conclusion to jump to.

Nevertheless, LASORB is not a TVS diode or even anything like it. LASORB works off of the concept of slew rate (i.e. rate of change of voltage). LASORB does have a kind of maximum clamping voltage, but in most cases this would never be experienced in an application, and maximum clamping voltage (the concept TVS works off of) is not good enough or fast enough in our testing for laser diodes. TVS is made for protecting normal PN-junction-type semiconductors. A laser diode is not a normal PN junction, but rather a heterojunction. Plus, laser diodes are extremely fast (some can react in 1 nanosecond) and have mirrors that will be instantly damaged if an over-voltage condition occurs.

LASORB has been granted three patents, including most recently a patent in China (trust me, it's hard for Americans to get a Patent in China...). That wouldn't have happened if it was "just a TVS". Moreover, entities like NASA wouldn't be using LASORB on missions to mars if it was "just a TVS".

LASORB was introduced in 2008, and now most laser lightshow projector manufacturers use it. Laser lightshow projectors have also become more reliable since 2008 as well. Coincidence? It's used by well-known technical universities and a whole host of others. If you're interested, you'll find an abbreviated customer list here: Products protected by LASORB - Lasorb

In any event, people are free to use whatever they want. I'm not here to sell people on the merits of LASORB, or try to discourage anyone from concocting their own solution. But I hope people don't mind me correcting misconceptions, and certainly LASORB is not "just a TVS"...

Best regards,

William Benner

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Old 07-03-2016, 06:36 AM #5
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
From what I understand, the lasorb is just a TVS diode. TVS diodes are $1 or less, and the lasorb retails for ~$10, last I checked.
I was always under the impression there was a capacitor in the lasorbs. I have a few laying around I got at selem A wile back there really handy Used with a laserbug SELLING LASERBUG - Laser Diode Interface Modules
Though most Laserbugs come with them already attached .

Edit: Oh wow this is a year old O_o.

Pangolin: If your still reading this are all laserbs the same Or are there different ones for high and low power diodes.
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Old 07-03-2016, 07:37 AM #6
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyparagon View Post
From what I understand, the lasorb is just a TVS diode. TVS diodes are $1 or less, and the lasorb retails for ~$10, last I checked.
I thought the same thing until I saw the patent document. Look it up. You will be surprised at how simple but brilliant it is.
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Old 07-03-2016, 11:56 AM #7
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Thanks for correctling and your support for the laser industry both from a business perspective and from a hobby perspective on LPF and PL forums.

I know you make quality stuff


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
I've seen several people with this misconception here on Laser Pointer Forums, and I guess a few other places too. I guess without a thorough investigation, that might be an easy conclusion to jump to.

Nevertheless, LASORB is not a TVS diode or even anything like it. LASORB works off of the concept of slew rate (i.e. rate of change of voltage). LASORB does have a kind of maximum clamping voltage, but in most cases this would never be experienced in an application, and maximum clamping voltage (the concept TVS works off of) is not good enough or fast enough in our testing for laser diodes. TVS is made for protecting normal PN-junction-type semiconductors. A laser diode is not a normal PN junction, but rather a heterojunction. Plus, laser diodes are extremely fast (some can react in 1 nanosecond) and have mirrors that will be instantly damaged if an over-voltage condition occurs.

LASORB has been granted three patents, including most recently a patent in China (trust me, it's hard for Americans to get a Patent in China...). That wouldn't have happened if it was "just a TVS". Moreover, entities like NASA wouldn't be using LASORB on missions to mars if it was "just a TVS".

LASORB was introduced in 2008, and now most laser lightshow projector manufacturers use it. Laser lightshow projectors have also become more reliable since 2008 as well. Coincidence? It's used by well-known technical universities and a whole host of others. If you're interested, you'll find an abbreviated customer list here: Products protected by LASORB - Lasorb

In any event, people are free to use whatever they want. I'm not here to sell people on the merits of LASORB, or try to discourage anyone from concocting their own solution. But I hope people don't mind me correcting misconceptions, and certainly LASORB is not "just a TVS"...

Best regards,

William Benner
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Old 07-03-2016, 05:46 PM #8
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Thanks, William. I stand corrected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by logsquared View Post
I thought the same thing until I saw the patent document. Look it up. You will be surprised at how simple but brilliant it is.
Aye, it's easy enough to draw it out from the description. here's what I'm reading. Still only <$1 in parts.

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Fun find! may be useful to you builders?-lasorb.png  
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Old 07-03-2016, 08:55 PM #9
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Interesting. I want to see where this goes from here and need to do my own investigating.
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Old 07-04-2016, 11:55 AM #10
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Projector builders have known about them for a while. Even some pointer builders. I've been wanting to order a couple for one of the reds in my system.
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Old 07-05-2016, 05:54 AM #11
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Yes guys, you've got it now!

Laserman, yes there are different LASORBs for the different laser diodes. The difference doesn't have to do with power, but operating voltage. The two resistors get tailored for each operating voltage level. Obviously there are an infinite combination, but we've narrowed it down to around 7 combinations -- one for each laser diode range (like high power red, green, blue, blu-ray, etc.)

And thanks for the comment on the "brilliant". I find the best inventions are those that look simple -- at least so after you know the trick

In the case of LASORB, the real magic is the components we use. The diagram shows two resistors, a capacitor, and a mosfet, but each are at least somewhat special. Remember, ESD happens at the nanosecond-level (and no exaggeration here). So the passive components must be RF quality components, and the mosfet (generally believed to be ESD sensitive components themselves) must be robust enough to handle the ESD without being destroyed, and fast enough to respond, and able to withstand at least 35 amps during the surge.

And this explains the price. Cyparagon wrote "still less than $1" to which I respond -- are you sure about that? Sure, passives are cheap enough (even microwave-quality ones), but it took us a year to develop the custom mosfet that we use, which clearly has special properties for all of the reasons we wrote above. Plus, LASORB is a packaged product. By the time we add all of the components together on a circuit board, add a package to the outside, and fill the entire thing with epoxy that has been proven to stand the test of time -- and then laser mark the package, you'd be surprised just how little profit there is in this. I think some people have the impression we're making gobs of money, but we're not!

Anyway, I'm glad we've at least progressed past the TVS myth


Bill

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Old 07-05-2016, 06:24 AM #12
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Default OFF TOPIC POST ALERT -- (sorry for this guys)

Hi HugeDump,

(Funny nickname by the way -- so picturesque!)

Regarding bad comments, things like that used to bother me, but now I'm laughing! Seriously! Right now I am laughing!

I'm a member of several (what are called) "mastermind groups". In fact, later today I jump on a plane to attend a 3-day mastermind in California.

Mastermind groups are where a bunch of executives get together to discuss what's working in business, what's not, how to improve business, etc. At these groups you benefit from the experience of really smart guys in the room. Example guys who you'll find in these groups are Dr. Peter Diamandis (founder of the X-prize), Tony Hsieh (CEO of Zappos) and Sir Richard Branson (founder of Virgin airlines). I'm not kidding about these names and, although I'm not a "star whore" you don't have to look much further than pictures on my Facebook to see who I hang out with...

Anyway, during one of the mastermind sessions a few years ago, Grant Cardone was talking about just this topic -- people badmouthing other people. Grant's conclusion was that badmouthing is really a sign of success, and that it takes a certain amount of badmouthing out there to create credibility, and then he points to the Kardashians and Kayne West. It was a very passionate, funny, and true presentation, and Grant is one of the most successful guys I know. Because of his personality, he certainly stirs up a lot of badmouthing, and loves it.

Anyway, look guys, I know who I am and I love what I do. I'm one of the few people who can be considered to be a founding father of the laser lightshow business and still serving the industry after more than 30 years. I came from very nearly nothing (at age 15 my family couldn't afford to cloth me) and built a pretty successful business that helps a lot of people do laser light shows, while creating ancillary products that are used by other industries including NASA. When you're at the top of the mountain a lot of people like to try to knock you off, or at least snipe at you. And -- like Grant Cardone I occasionally say (and write) things that offend people. I know that, and for that I deserve a certain amount of criticism and sniping.

Sorry for the long off-topic post. I thank you for your concern and pointing out who is who and what they do when I'm not around, but I look at it this way: My life is about me, my family, my co-workers and my clients. If there are people who spend a lot of time badmouthing me then -- in reality -- their life is about me. If someone wants to make their life about me, that's their business...

Bill
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Old 07-05-2016, 10:09 PM #13
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Bill, I've been wanting to buy 2 for a projector. I need a couple for 2 LPC-840 and noticed there are a few different ones for red. Which should I get?
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635 - Z-bolt BTE-4S
632.8 - 10mW HeNe
589 - PGL-III-C 80mW(100+ peak/average)
543 - GreeNe
532 - Optotronics RPL-260, Optotronics Pen ~20mW
520 - JayRob C6
514 - Argon SL
488 - Novalux
473 - Lasever LSR473HD-80 - 107mW peak
450 - JayRob C6 w/PL450B
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405 - Old Leadlight that Drlava transformed (33mW), 12x in a JayRob C6 host
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Old 07-06-2016, 12:31 AM #14
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

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Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
I think some people have the impression we're making gobs of money, but we're not!
Nah, not off a $10 board. Even if you were, there's nothing inherently wrong with profit. I'm aware there's R&D, board, assembly, marketing, and several other costs involved. I'm just pointing out people could easily make something similar. Maybe not quite to your standards, but hey, such is the nature of DIY.
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Old 07-08-2016, 10:17 AM #15
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr_Evil View Post
Bill, I've been wanting to buy 2 for a projector. I need a couple for 2 LPC-840 and noticed there are a few different ones for red. Which should I get?
Shoot me an email using Contact Us - Pangolin Laser Systems. In the email it would be good if you could send me a link to a datasheet, and let me know how you will be driving it (particularly if you will be modulating the beam, and if so, using analog or TTL modulation). Include you're address and I'll send you a few pieces for free.
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Old 07-08-2016, 05:41 PM #16
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Default Re: Fun find! may be useful to you builders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangolin View Post
Shoot me an email using Contact Us - Pangolin Laser Systems. In the email it would be good if you could send me a link to a datasheet, and let me know how you will be driving it (particularly if you will be modulating the beam, and if so, using analog or TTL modulation). Include you're address and I'll send you a few pieces for free.
I keep getting a "Validation errors occurred. Please confirm the fields and submit it again." message when trying to submit the form.
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645 to 660 - Z-bolt BTP-8E, jayrob C6 w/LOC
638 - JayRob C6 w/ML520G54
635 - Z-bolt BTE-4S
632.8 - 10mW HeNe
589 - PGL-III-C 80mW(100+ peak/average)
543 - GreeNe
532 - Optotronics RPL-260, Optotronics Pen ~20mW
520 - JayRob C6
514 - Argon SL
488 - Novalux
473 - Lasever LSR473HD-80 - 107mW peak
450 - JayRob C6 w/PL450B
445 - JayRob C6
405 - Old Leadlight that Drlava transformed (33mW), 12x in a JayRob C6 host
Multi - 2214-25MLUP ArIon
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