Just because someone's a veteran doesn't mean they'll give a fair review.

Take wannaburn, for instance.

Quite a few of the better reviews have been done by noobs, not veterans.

In many ways, the 'noobs' are better subjects. They, unlike most of the veterans, try to keep an open mind when reviewing.

In regards to the laser, I believe the matter is being handled by PMs.

DLMB, sorry if you hate these things being pulled behind your back. But it was the least I could do for ya.

Also, he had an argument with someone a few days before, and they thought they'd gotten over it, so that's why the guy was invited.

Whoever did it most likely did it out of spite. Why else would they trash it, completely destroy the driver and host, then dump the bits on his doorstep?

I think reviews done by people who buy lasers of their own free will and review them are the best. I agree that if someone sends you a free laser, your going to be more inclined to overlook some flaws.

I have no qualms giving a bad review to crappy stuff-- and have done that.

If I say my review is unbiased -you can take that to the bank.

Some items get tested to the point of failure== maybe you can afford to do that but not me. But, I kiss nobodies ass.

btw I returned the 150mW that Jetl sent me.

All you have too look for is which one of your "pals" is wearing a brand new eyepatch.
He didn't take your laser safety goggles too did he?
Sorry to hear about your bad luck bro, I hate thieves.

I am curious why you mention returning your 150mw laser? You clearly stated in another thread that in return jetlasers is sending you the much more expensive 250mw laser for you to review. You then stated that you fully intend to keep it.

It seems like you are trying to deceive us in this thread by leading us to believe that you have nothing to gain by a rave review because you returned the review laser. This leads me to believe that you are being deceptive in general when you don't include the whole story. It would have been much more honest if you had said:

btw I returned the 150mW that Jetl sent me and they are sending me a 250mw laser that I am going to review and keep.

Also when you say:

If I say my review is unbiased -you can take that to the bank.

Its like someone saying "Trust me, I would never lie to you.. If I say I always tell the truth then I do." Its faulty logic, there is no need for a statement of veracity.

It seems that your rave review on their 150mw laser has paid off because you now get a 250mw laser.. for free.

Like I said before I don't knock anyone for keeping their multi-hundred dollar review lasers, but just be honest about it and don't try to mislead us.

Deception makes me

As always we need disclaimers in our posts so no one gets mad enough to give us bad rep, here is mine:

I am just saying.

The one problem I have with people reviewing free lasers is that, the companies can hand pick the laser they send, in hopes of giving the company a good name, (which I do not think is the case with Jet Lasers, they have shown to have excellent customer service). When reviewing a laser you should buy it from the company, do not let them know you are reviewing it and the you have a LPM. That way you will receive a laser anyone who else orders would receive.

Hey Thengine,
Analyzing and passing judgement is a merit anyway, esp. for other members in this forum.
But here Hakzaw1 didnot deceive anybody. I'm to prove that he never wants to keep the PL-C 150mw he first received but he's allowed to keep it, so does every reviewer. Then he insisted on shipping it back and the laser was shipped out from US last week and has arrived at China three days ago.

Regarding the jetlasers PL-C 250mw, the fact is that he didnot ask for any 250mw model after he shipped the PL-C 150mw back. We shipped one to him on the condition that he's organizing a GB, 250mw on the GB list. People who joined the GB might wanna see the review of more samples listed in the GB. He's also allowed to keep it and it's up to him to keep it or not.

Hi, Pilgor, your concern is well understood and actually we also have the same concern over the review units. It will be great to come up with some suggestions for the review section that can do justice to every reviewer and laser seller. To play 100% fair seems to be difficult.

We‘re used to providing free lasers for review. The person who receives and reviews it is free to keep it or not. If he chooses to ship it back, we would like to pay the shipping. Honestly, we didnot have the time to hand pick any item, esp. the one for the Hakzaw1 and Ccd1. There are even some scratches on the finish since we did some drop tests on them. They were also the last few models of the current version, while the lasers for GB will be in the new hosts.

This is quoting an older post in this thread but it has to be said that I don't think anyone is hating JETLASERS at all. Quite the contrary in fact. From JETLASERS' posts, and the comments I've seen from other members, this seems to be a company with as much involvement and interest in the community, as they have trying to run a legitimate and caring business. This should be seen as an example to other companies and I'm sure others will agree. Seems to me they have great customer service in general although I would, of course, have to experience it for myself to confirm. I hope to do this in the future.

M

I was wondering if he got something for doing the group buy for Jetlasers. You said he gets the 250mw on the condition that he does a group buy for you. He says the 250mw was for review. Which is true?

Earlier he said only that he returned that 150mw laser to you, but never mentioned that he was going to receive the 250mw laser. Regardless of the circumstances/reasoning behind sending him a 250mw laser, its misleading when he didn't tell the WHOLE story.

I am glad you came here to tell us that the returning of the 150mw laser was way before you ever offered to send out the 250mw laser to him in return for doing the group buy for you. It puts my mind at ease that hak really only has the best of intentions at heart.

Btw, any chance I could do a group buy for you? I would really like a free 250mw laser. I know I am not as seasoned as hak but I would promote your product just as fiercely as he has.

If you had read all my posts and looked at my rep and the feedback on me you would have never posted what you have. I will be happty to take your name from the maybe GB list. You have not responded to my PM anyway and all this should have been handled in PM-- IMHO. I have posted that the reason I returned the laser, And if you read all my posts you would know that.

good luck to you

Below you can read what I posted yesterday- in the thread where it belongs --not his one which is about something different altoghther.

it is post#65 in MY GB thread IIRC ..quote,,

Re: GB IS ON!!!--150/200/250 mW PGL-OR any item in STOCK-- all overspec and free extr
Thank you to all who have sent me thier shipping info-My 250mW is in Tx and should be delivered and reviewed this time Friday- We need only a few more to close this GB and git er done!

There will be a second GB for the titanium PL-As and maybe others items from JETL too. Those doing the first GB will get first option to get in on GB#2. Same set -up as GB#1-- min of 10 max of 20 units.

BTW

I would not be doing this GB if I did not think it was a good deal on high quality lasers. IMHO JETL is a great company. I did not ask for a free lase to review, they offered it to me. I have returned it at JETL expense and they have offered me a 250mW to test and review. I am buying a 200 mW in the first GB at the same price as all others will pay. I plan to get a Titanium in GB#2 the same way.

Am I going to keep the free 250mW PL-C? you bet your sweet ass! and my review of it will be as unbiased as I can make it.


I got free and half price items from DinoD and Laserland and I would not do a GB for them even if they paid me.[/I] END QUOTE

as far you you doing a GB -- most here only like to do them with some one they know well---just saying-

I don't get it? Should I not ask questions of people with high post count and rep? Are you saying you are above asking difficult questions of.. because everyone likes you? Why does this topic need to be handled in PM?

good luck to you means you don't want to talk about this anymore?

Yes, this is a possibility, but not too realistic.

Pulling such a stunt require technical competence in the marketing department and/or close cooperation with engineering.
That does not appear to exist in companies making crappy lasers.
It is likely a question of overall payscale/competence within the individual company.

A company making consistently good lasers would also want to build and keep a good reputation, and realise that there are plenty of hobbyist with the ability to find out and get furious.

In short the ones who could do this does not need to, and realise the long term risk in it.

Thegine,
Ease off.
It is perfectly possible to make an honest review of a free laser, and people should get something for the effort.

Exactly. The reason why people 'like' Hak is because he is an upfront honest person. He doesn't owe anyone an explanation of anything he does. He has proven he is trust worthy many times here. Which is more than I can say about you, Thegine.

YOU GOT MY NAME WRONG FUCKER!!!

LOL, I am just kidding.

I don't know who is trust worthy or who isn't. I just wanted to ask some questions, if thats not too much to ask. To be sure, he doesn't owe anyone an explanation. However, a good explanation would put my mind at ease at the circumstances of this laser review and group buy because I was interested in participating. I got most of the answers I was looking for.

I think he honestly believes he gave an accurate and honest review. The representative of Jetlasers also seems to be an upfront and honest guy with good quality products.

Long story short they both seem fine to me, however I still like to ask difficult questions. Is that too much to do on these forums?

No, but Len has been here for a long time. If he was shady he would not have lasted this long, and not backed by people like me. If it was a n00b I'd be agreeing with you.

i swear DLMB has the worst luck ever..i believe everyone of your lasers have been broken returned to be repaired....did you get your pgl back from cni yet???

TRUE^^^rotten LUCK!!! the way they tore it apart like that speaks volumes about the sicko that did that.

I tried to put myself in DLMB shoes and think of peeps that may show up at one of my laser/music parties and I could see that happening- some have big probs with stuff like that. Most compalints are about my music choices- I'm old school-80's trance/techno/dance/acid rock/ house is what I like and its my fking party.

But I would have a short list of possible suspects--IMO.

-in fact about 15 yrs ago I set up a tiny HeNe red with a spiro and a mirror glued to a speaker off in one spare bedroom at a freinds party

No one had been in that room for a while and when I went into it, the laser had been moved to the floor(but not damaged) and the mirror was pulled from the speaker. I still to this day am not sure who did it, but I keep a better eye on my 'toys' now.

Hopefully Gray will help you out, but you may have to give JETL a great review on a crappy laser to get it(tounge in cheek). I answer all questions when they are asked with a little respect. If I ever wonder whether a question should be in a PM or the open forum I always CHOOSE PM.

Hak is awesome. Good day, sir.

-Trevor

I have had a few dealings with Hakzaw1 myself and I have found him to be very upfront and honest as well.

But as someone new around here you can't just look at post count or rep as a guaranteed seal of approval.


Also another way to get a fair review could be after you are approached to do a review to let them know that you will buy it normally as a customer under an unknown to them name so you can document the entire buying experience. From ordering the item on their website, delivery time, etc. Then they can reimburse you when you send it back. And this way there would be no question of if you got a hand picked unit for the review.

^^^ very valid points DTR--At one time there were two(Plus many more) here with over 3000 posts between them and lots of good rep too. Both turned out to be (or turned into) scammers and some good people got burned by them--

also...

No doubt 'cherry pick' samples are sent out from some companies. However in due time this usually comes to light and then the offending company gets thier just desserts.(and then some!)

My GB with Jetlasers will have at least 6 getting the 250mW greens so in short order we will know who if anybody got a 'cherry pick'.-

AND---JETL offers , in thier site, test results prior to shipping. Only a few others offer this- no surprises that way.
I offer the same to all who go for my GB- I get your laser- you get a photo PMed showing it on my LPM and if you change your mind I will refund the cost of the laser and I dont send it to you.

All you end up paying is the approx. 5 to 10$ share that the GB cost to get it here in Texas.

This thread is not supposed to be about samples, GBs or me. Anyone wanting to go into this only needs to go to the feedback or GB section and start a thread. I reply to all PMs too. Now-- ya'll move along-- ders nutin' to see here!

hak

Sheesh guys. Take it to PM's.

The head looks to be fine. You should be able to build a DDL driver and turn it into a lab unit pretty easily. Would make a good little show with a spiro or something.

Really sucks that happened though. Sorry for your loss. Always be careful with expensive toys, never loan them out.

I agree ^^^ I wanted it to go to PM long ago--imo the threadjacking started at post # 25-totally offtopic and an attemp at trolling. I apoligize to DLMB I should have ignored the noob.

Sounds like JETL wants to help you- I would accept that help. Got any more photos with close-up? Hope it all works out for you.....len

sorry to your loss and good luck to you!

^Stop the spamming Laserspaces! You've been away for quite a while. Can you go back there please?

M