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Old 04-11-2017, 06:15 AM #1
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Default Cool Observation?

Hey guys,

Im sure some of you will think this is a stupid question but I'd thought I'd ask anyway. Last night when I had my 532 lab running I decided to use my 515 pointer just to see the color difference and then decided to do an experiment. I shined the 515 pointer's beam across the beam of the 532 lab and noticed that neither of the photons of either seem to be affected by one another. What I mean was that they seemed to pass through each other no problem. How come? Shouldn't photons interact with each other? Does the fact that photons not "collide" allow us to produce some DPSS wavelengths by combining their wavelengths?

-Alex


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Old 04-11-2017, 06:26 AM #2
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Alex, do not consider light as particle - photon, think about it as a wave instead. Try to throw two stones in lake for example and observe the waves there to get idea. There will be some interference on place they meet, but they will continue further separately. This is strange world of quantum mechanics. EM radiation considered as particle has better use in very short wavelengths than in longer. That's why you hear gamma photon and radio wave and not gamma wave and radio photon instead, even they are the same - EM radiation, they just differ in frequency or energy - choose what you like more.

And this is not stupid question, it has a deep meaning hidden in the answer.
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:30 AM #3
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
Alex, do not consider light as particle - photon, think about it as a wave instead. Try to throw two stones in lake for example and observe the waves there to get idea. There will be some interference on place they meet, but they will continue further separately. This is strange world of quantum mechanics. EM radiation considered as particle has better use in very short wavelengths than in longer. That's why you hear gamma photon and radio wave and not gamma wave and radio photon instead, even they are the same - EM radiation, they just differ in frequency or energy - choose what you like more.

And this is not stupid question, it has a deep meaning hidden in the answer.
Thanks! Quantum Mechanics? Seems complicated

-Alex
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:03 AM #4
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Weird is the word for quantum but also wonderful such a strange underlying reality can support the classical world we live in, a miracle which allows both a place to exist as individuals as well as freedom of choice, within the possibilities.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:05 AM #5
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Try to search for wave-particle duality to read more. It is not that complicated to understand it a bit if you think outside the box.

Edit: Alaskan, I completely agree, nicely said. As I mentioned earlier - quotes and your brief summary in your signature are saying that. I share this opinon as well.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:18 AM #6
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hap View Post
Hey guys,

Im sure some of you will think this is a stupid question but I'd thought I'd ask anyway. Last night when I had my 532 lab running I decided to use my 515 pointer just to see the color difference and then decided to do an experiment. I shined the 515 pointer's beam across the beam of the 532 lab and noticed that neither of the photons of either seem to be affected by one another. What I mean was that they seemed to pass through each other no problem. How come? Shouldn't photons interact with each other? Does the fact that photons not "collide" allow us to produce some DPSS wavelengths by combining their wavelengths?

-Alex
You are confusing human visual perception with wavelength which are apples and oranges different concepts.
Color is not a physical property; it is merely the brain’s interpretation of different wavelengths of light. Wavelength is not a description of a color you perceive/see. It is term independent of human observation -- a description of electromagnetic radiation.

No you can not combine 2 different wavelengths of light in the way you describe to create a 3rd wavelength.
Linearly adding together two wavelengths can never produce a new pure wavelength you just get your two wavelengths superimposed. Two wavelengths of light occupying the same space, don't "combine". The eye does that.
Wavelength is not modified, the two different wavelength waves are added up by your eye to produce the "color" light that you perceive.

However, it is possible to mix two wavelengths of light to produce a different wavelength with the use of nonlinear optical devices--a nonlinear optical process. The technique is known as sum frequency generation in which the resultant laser beam has a frequency which is given by the sum of the two frequencies which you are pumping it with. A special case of sum-frequency generation is second-harmonic generation. As a simple example --your 532nm laser is an example-- it takes 1064nm and converts it by a non-liniear optical process(crystals) to 532nm by the the technique given the special name second harmonic generation.
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sum_frequency_generation
and
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second...nic_generation

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Old 04-11-2017, 07:26 AM #7
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Encap, you misunderstood my post a bit I was talking just that the waves interfere, not create new wavelength from it and human perception is just another story. But also nice post to make it clear for the others. I did not mentioned SHG process as I think Alex knows about it. The process of creating the new wavelength is involving more than just putting two waves together. That's why I do not consider combined wavelengths of red and green lasers as true yellow. 589 nm rulezzz.

Edit: Now I see, you were reffering to Alex's post not to mine as before edit, disregard first part of this post.
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Last edited by Radim; 04-11-2017 at 07:35 AM.
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:47 AM #8
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
Encap, you misunderstood my post a bit I was talking just that the waves interfere, not create new wavelength from it and human perception is just another story. But also nice post to make it clear for the others. I did not mentioned SHG process as I think Alex knows about it. 589 nm rulezzz.

Edit: Now I see, you were reffering to Alex's post not to mine as before edit, disregard first part of this post.
Sorry for the confusion--I put your quote in the post by mistake and then deleted that post.

Yes exactly what I was pointing out --as you say-- " The process of creating the new wavelength is involving more than just putting two waves together. That's why I do not consider combined wavelengths of red and green lasers as true yellow."
That is just the brain interpreting the signals form eye's retina stimulated by red and green at the same time together, in whatever proportions--is not a yellow wavelength--just red and green.

I was responding to Alex's question "Does the fact that photons not "collide" allow us to produce some DPSS wavelengths by combining their wavelengths"

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Old 04-11-2017, 08:16 AM #9
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

I'm thinking Hap thought at that point of beam interaction it would create a kind of collision spot? Not a WL shift?
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Old 04-11-2017, 09:05 AM #10
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by GSS View Post
I'm thinking Hap thought at that point of beam interaction it would create a kind of collision spot? Not a WL shift?
Yes that too and photons do/can interact but not under the cricumstances/situation he created with a 532nm and 515nm laser. In the context of what he was doing and observing he then asked--"Does the fact that photons not "collide" allow us to produce some DPSS wavelengths by combining their wavelengths?" So I was attempting to address that a little bit.

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Old 04-11-2017, 09:16 AM #11
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Radim View Post
...

Edit: Alaskan, I completely agree, nicely said. As I mentioned earlier - quotes and your brief summary in your signature are saying that. I share this opinon as well.
The more I see of what is going on to produce the physical reality we live in which is made from nothing more than organized energy, the more I see that anything is possible, that we are not locked into a one shot existence only to disappear into infinity when we die. I believe the physics we are now just cracking the lid on supports this, but the mainstream are about 20 years behind the bleeding edge, bleeding because they keep getting beat back by the core.
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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Old 04-11-2017, 09:49 AM #12
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskan View Post
The more I see of what is going on to produce the physical reality we live in which is made from nothing more than organized energy, the more I see that anything is possible, that we are not locked into a one shot existence only to disappear into infinity when we die. I believe the physics we are now just cracking the lid on supports this, but the mainstream are about 20 years behind the bleeding edge, bleeding because they keep getting beat back by the core.
That's pretty accurate in deed. Luckily some scientists think outside the box nowadays - my favourite Roger Penrose (yes, the teacher of Stephen Hawking) for example. I consider whole Universe and everything in it including spacetime, matter (or energy if you like), me, you... as an united intelligent living organism evolving (and concurently evolved already) and basically you are describing what I call surreal world, perceived reality is just part of it. That is what I express by my art and my latest laserpainting now in progress is exactly about this topic. Coming (hopefully) soon...

And I do not believe we dissapear after death, our souls still live in the surreal world (and through our actions done during our life). Only our bodies dissapear.

But more in the coming artwork.

Edit: I like when there are some reading lists added on topics requiring knowledge beyond, here for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind
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Current collection:
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445 nm | 3.5 W | Wicked Lasers Arctic
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:01 PM #13
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Quantum mechanic and field theory has some of the coolest explanations.. concepts.. ideas. Anytime someone brings up flat earth all I say is quantum mechanics
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Old 04-11-2017, 05:12 PM #14
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 10fenny View Post
Quantum mechanic and field theory has some of the coolest explanations.. concepts.. ideas. Anytime someone brings up flat earth all I say is quantum mechanics
Do not forget Pratchett's Discworld. Fatasy worlds also exist, in books, movies, in our minds... When arguing with someone who believs in flat Earth, I say yes, this kind of world exists.
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Old 04-11-2017, 06:45 PM #15
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

I like your thinking Radim...Alaskans too, but he knows this. I just wanted to comment on your idea that "only our bodies disappear". I disagree, nothing ever really disappears. Oh sure, the arrangement of energy waveforms no longer resembles a human, but it never disappears, only changes form.😉 It's an amazing ummm...thing...we live in, for certain!!

And btw...your laser paintings are THE SHIT!!! Keep 'em coming!

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Quote:
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I consider whole Universe and everything in it including spacetime, matter (or energy if you like), me, you... as an united intelligent living organism evolving (and concurently evolved already) and basically you are describing what I call surreal world, perceived reality is just part of it. That is what I express by my art and my latest laserpainting now in progress is exactly about this topic. Coming (hopefully) soon...

And I do not believe we dissapear after death, our souls still live in the surreal world (and through our actions done during our life). Only our bodies dissapear.

But more in the coming artwork.

Edit: I like when there are some reading lists added on topics requiring knowledge beyond, here for example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mind
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Old 04-11-2017, 07:44 PM #16
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Default Re: Cool Observation?

Thread is sure going a different direction, but I don't think Hap minds. It very well may be all of the past, present and future already exist and we only have the illusion of freedom to choose our path. That any being can decide to try any of our lives out as an adventure, knowing full well before hand what will happen, but once inserted into any one life, we forget what we planned or what we are doing. Full immersion entertainment! I doubt this is what is happening, I believe the adventure is far more open and free than such, but it could work that way. Unless, of course, we are tracing our lives out for the first time right now and this gives opportunity for others to follow our tracks through such an insertion later.... hmmm... Twilight Zone material for sure but I am more comfortable with these ideas having some kind of reality than not.

Living in a free and open universe where nothing is determined, but by what is possible, and our free will is more appealing by far. Yet, there may be more to it than that alone and this might indeed be entertainment for the masses. Cracking open the Twilight Zone door again, could be we are all part of an ancient civilisation which advanced beyond having physical bodies but then missed it too much, created this place to go have fun.

Perhaps....

The world is like a ride at an amusement park, and when you choose to go on it, you think it's real, because that's how powerful our minds are. And the ride goes up and down and round and round and it has thrills and chills and it's very brightly colored and it's very loud. And it's fun, for a while.

Some people have been on the ride for a long time, and they begin to question: 'Is this real? Or is this just a ride?' And other people have remembered, and they come back to us and they say 'Hey! Don't worry, don't be afraid -- ever -- because... this is just a ride.' And we kill those people.

'Shut him up! We have a lot invested in this ride! Shut him up! Look at my furrows of worry; look at my big bank account, and my family. This has to be real.' It's just a ride. But we always kill those good guys who try and tell us that -- ever notice that? -- and we let the demons run amok. But it doesn't matter, because... it's just a ride, and we can change it any time we want. It's only a choice. No effort. No worry. No job. No savings and money. Just a choice, right now, between fear and love. The eyes of fear want you to put bigger locks on your door, buy bigger guns, close yourself off. The eyes of love, instead, see all of us as one.

Here's what we can do to change the world, right now, into a better ride. Take all that money we spend on weapons and defense each year and, instead, spend it feeding, clothing and educating the poor of the world, which it would do many times over -- not one human being excluded -- and we can explore space together, both inner and outer, forever. In peace.

Bill Hicks
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Sincerely investigate any of these three short quotes as new concepts and you've taken your first step into a larger world:

"I regard consciousness as fundamental. I regard matter as derivative from consciousness..." - Max Planck. "Everything we call real is made of things that cannot be regarded as real" - Neils Bohr. "What we call physical things and events do not exist independently of subjective experience..." - Deepak Chopra.

Each of these three rabbit holes go deep, ending up in the same place.

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