Advice on side button build - first build

Hey everyone, I have been researching obsessively but need some advice.


I have 5 lasers now, (2x5mw and 3x50-150mW R, G, V). I want to build a 1.5-2+W 445nm laser.

I absolutely love many of the rear clicky host designs, but I can't imagine not having a momentary side button. It seems like the only viable options are to get custom hosts (Ehgemus has nice designs) and build my own or buy a premade one. I'm not that interested in prebuilt ones, maybe a kit though. I would like to use an M140 and 12x30 mm module with a copper heatsink and a glass lens that is powerful but not too divergent or weird shaped.

In any case. Any help on what options I have would be appreciated. Ehgemus would be good but I want to know all the other choices too. It seems there are no non-custom hosts that I'm aware of (saw only one like that in a kit). Not a huge fan of the rubbery,clicky side buttons though either (hard is better). I liked the C6 hosts but they are rear clicky like every other flashlight almost. (No mag lights or fatty mods though)

I would also like to have a rear click button "master" or key switch at the same time for safety. (optional but then would have to take out batteries when not in use)

It is a bit ambitious for a first build I know, but I want it to be what I really want, seems like a waste otherwise. I can pull it off with some help from those before me I'm sure. I am comfortable with soldering & working with things, if anything it is picking the right parts and having them fit together that I'm concerned about.

I REALLY appreciate your help! Thanks in advance. :thanks: :wave:

BodhiSci

This might be a little different than what you are currently thinking, but this is one of the reasons why I like vintage hosts. Most of these old flashlights have side switch configurations that are both momentary and non-momentary. Sometimes the switch can be both at the same time (momentary if you push down on it, and it will stay on if you push down and slide forward.) These are perfect for lasering, if you're like me and don't really prefer rear clickys. Plus they're typically metal or hard plastic, so they're more durable than the rubber side clickys found on the Guidesman hosts, for example.

Here's an example of a Rayovac host, with the separate momentary and non-momentary switches. Many hosts from this era have this kind of configuration.

http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/review-vintage-all-copper-rayovac-builds-3-4-a-90921.html

And here's one of the Bond hosts, with the single switch that is both momentary and non-momentary at the same time:

http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/review-vintage-all-copper-bond-build-1-pic-heavy-86239.html

Hope this helps.

-Andy

andrewb said:

This might be a little different than what you are currently thinking, but this is one of the reasons why I like vintage hosts. Most of these old flashlights have side switch configurations that are both momentary and non-momentary. Sometimes the switch can be both at the same time (momentary if you push down on it, and it will stay on if you push down and slide forward.) These are perfect for lasering, if you're like me and don't really prefer rear clickys. Plus they're typically metal or hard plastic, so they're more durable than the rubber side clickys found on the Guidesman hosts, for example.

Here's an example of a Rayovac host, with the separate momentary and non-momentary switches. Many hosts from this era have this kind of configuration.

http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/review-vintage-all-copper-rayovac-builds-3-4-a-90921.html

And here's one of the Bond hosts, with the single switch that is both momentary and non-momentary at the same time:

http://laserpointerforums.com/f52/review-vintage-all-copper-bond-build-1-pic-heavy-86239.html

Hope this helps.

-Andy

Click to expand...

Thanks Andy. I am glad to know about those options but yeah I think it is a bit different than what I want right now. May use that info someday though.

honestly for what you want, there is no reason not to go with Ehgemus, he is a master of the custom momentary side. The other option i can think of is to see if anyone has one of those fire dragon hosts around.
This host:
Firedragon III Flashlight Style Elite Green Laser Pointer Kit 532nm 300mW (Certified Power Guaranteed)-in Laser Pointers from Office & School Supplies on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

The button can be momentary, or it can lock on or off if you push it all the way in.

When you refer to building yourself, what do you mean? you could buy a custom host from Ehgemus or someone else who states the host can fit a full DTR module etc then go here https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/home/diodes/445-m140-didoes and buy a full module with diode pressed with driver and desired lens (bottom four options on page) then it is just a matter of soldering two wires and tightening one set screw, Easy Peasy!
Take note of the driver input voltages if you do, because one driver would suit One Li-Ion battery and the driver would suit two Li-Ion batterys, and your host may take two batterys so whatever suits you,
If the driver you buy is suited for one 18650 but the host takes two 18650 you can always buy one of these http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/fs-18650-battery-spacers-89701.html or maybe a couple of these for future builds

RYDorDIE278 said:

When you refer to building yourself, what do you mean? you could buy a custom host from Ehgemus or someone else who states the host can fit a full DTR module etc then go here https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/home/diodes/445-m140-diodes and buy a full module with diode pressed with driver and desired lens (bottom four options on page) then it is just a matter of soldering two wires and tightening one set screw, Easy Peasy!
Take note of the driver input voltages if you do, because one driver would suit One Li-Ion battery and the driver would suit two Li-Ion batterys, and your host may take two batterys so whatever suits you,
If the driver you buy is suited for one 18650 but the host takes two 18650 you can always buy one of these http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/fs-18650-battery-spacers-89701.html or maybe a couple of these for future builds

Click to expand...

I'm not seeing where you are refering to (maybe I have been online reading about everything too long), but I think it was when I said I didn't prefer a DIY kit and that I wanted to pick the parts so I felt like I built it myself. By that I meant just picking everything and putting it all together myself, tghe way you state it sounds pretty simple. I had not narrowed it down yet exactly what I wanted, could have included a momentary switch and a rear clicky. Between the lens, diode, module, driver, host, switches and making it all fit it didn't seem as simple as you said it. I decided though to go with the 501b that you suggested. I ordered it from gearbest and got the group rate (3.99) with the code still and got the other model I thought I preferred as well. If it is that easy to take out with them I could try both. and use the other for a flashlight. I can upgrade to a custom mod later if I want I figure if I really need the momentary switch/button.

Ok, so I am going with this:

For sure: 501B Host and M140 with Copper Module, panasonic 3400 mAH batterie (1x)

Pretty sure I want this lens (jdawg sold his lenses)

http://www.aixiz.com/store/product_info.php/cPath/46/products_id/153

Need to verfiy that is as good as g2 and pick a driver. It doesn't seem like I can buy the driver already added from DTR without buying a lens, but I should be able to do that myself. (just soldering the leads unless I'm confused)

I want as powerful as possible. Hoping one batt is enough for 2W but am thinking it isn't. (Maybe IMR batteries would help that) Researching now. I have switched around a lot and am not following a tutorial right now.

Hmm. I do need a Boost driver for one battery. Maybe I should have gone with the c6 cree with extension tube, I am thinking of doing what I consider mid range (for me) around 500-750mW, I could use them for that or another project (got great deals on them anyways (3.99 and 8.99 inc shipping). I could also decide that 1W is plenty and use one for that....

Edit: Someone used a 501B and got just over 2W. I'm not worried about changing the battery. I guess it will be good with one! I don't mean to be all over the place here. I get diverted so easily in this! I'd be further along, but so many rabbit holes.

I can understand wanting to get all of the parts separately, so you felt like you 'built it yourself', but honestly IMHO, DTR's options are really the way to go. He makes it easy by pre-selecting all of the best parts for you. If you want to go high power (2W+), you're better off going with a buck driver and two batteries, as there aren't as many boost drivers (i.e., one battery) that can do that much current. The X-drives are excellent to work with, and you can get the driver, diode, and lens all in one place, which are pretty much optimally matched. (The X-drives are some of the best drivers out there.)

If I had to recommend something to you, it would be the 9mm 445 from DTR. Most bang for the buck, so to speak, in terms of a 445. You used to be able to get it with the 'stock lens' that comes in the projector (aka the 'G9'), which was better than a G2 power-wise, though it appears DTR doesn't have this option listed on his site anymore (only the G2), which I'm curious about. You might want to email him and ask about this, as it was the best deal, IMO. You can get up to and even over 3W with a 2.4A X-drive and a G9, all for one price, in one place. Then you are free to get creative about what host you pick, and what switches, etc, as there is still plenty of detail to the build, especially if you want a side switch and a custom host. (In which case, Eghemus is certainly a great way to go.)

-Andy

andrewb said:

I can understand wanting to get all of the parts separately, so you felt like you 'built it yourself', but honestly IMHO, DTR's options are really the way to go. He makes it easy by pre-selecting all of the best parts for you. If you want to go high power (2W+), you're better off going with a buck driver and two batteries, as there aren't as many boost drivers (i.e., one battery) that can do that much current. The X-drives are excellent to work with, and you can get the driver, diode, and lens all in one place, which are pretty much optimally matched. (The X-drives are some of the best drivers out there.)

If I had to recommend something to you, it would be the 9mm 445 from DTR. Most bang for the buck, so to speak, in terms of a 445. You used to be able to get it with the 'stock lens' that comes in the projector (aka the 'G9'), which was better than a G2 power-wise, though it appears DTR doesn't have this option listed on his site anymore (only the G2), which I'm curious about. You might want to email him and ask about this, as it was the best deal, IMO. You can get up to and even over 3W with a 2.4A X-drive and a G9, all for one price, in one place. Then you are free to get creative about what host you pick, and what switches, etc, as there is still plenty of detail to the build, especially if you want a side switch and a custom host. (In which case, Eghemus is certainly a great way to go.)


-Andy

Click to expand...

Over 3 W? on an M140? Must be pretty splashy and bad for the diode I wouldn't it? The x-boost would work perfect. DTR and pyro are out of them though I just PMed them about that. I like the idea of it being lighter with one battery. It seems to me that people say the M140's max safe current is 1.8A but maybe that is conservative idk. THx for your help.

No, the 9mm is a different diode than the M140. More powerful, and a different size (9mm vs 5.6mm for the M140). It's newer than the M140 (which superseded the A140).

https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/home/diodes/9mm-445nm

Yes, there is the x-boost, but as you've discovered, they're harder to get. (RHD also has an open-source design for a high current boost, which you can search for to find the thread). This is true for high power boost drivers in general. They do exist, but they're relatively rare.

Also keep in mind that it's possible to use two 16340 batteries in a host that would normally fit a single 18650. However in this case you will have twice the voltage (2 x 3.7V), allowing you to use a buck driver instead of a boost.

andrewb said:

No, the 9mm is a different diode than the M140. More powerful, and a different size (9mm vs 5.6mm for the M140). It's newer than the M140 (which superseded the A140).

https://sites.google.com/site/dtrlpf/home/diodes/9mm-445nm

Yes, there is the x-boost, but as you've discovered, they're harder to get. (RHD also has an open-source design for a high current boost, which you can search for to find the thread). This is true for high power boost drivers in general. They do exist, but they're relatively rare.

Also keep in mind that it's possible to use two 16340 batteries in a host that would normally fit a single 18650. However in this case you will have twice the voltage (2 x 3.7V), allowing you to use a buck driver instead of a boost.

Click to expand...

You know, I didn't even know about the 9mm one! it isn't that much more. Could I run it at a lower power? say 1 or 2 W? I am wondering if there is a driver I could change the output on fairly easily. I know some have potentiometers but not sure how big those get or if they would fit in a C6 with extended tube for the needed batteries I know I'd have to open it up to change) 3 W is just a lot of power to always have on.

I'm definately thinking of the two battery thing now. Maybe with 18350s too without protection (wasnt going to get that anyways)

Yes, the 9mm is a better value, IMO. You could run it at a lower power, but honestly, why bother. If you're paying for the diode, why not get as much as you can out of it?

Frankly, in terms of safety, there's little difference between 1.5-2W and 3W. They both can easily burn and blind you, etc, so you'll treat them the same. The 3W will just look a little brighter, and will heat up a little quicker (but in reality, unless you're specifically looking to run your laser for many minutes at a time, this shouldn't make a big difference either, especially in any host from Eghemus, which will have good heat sinking).

Jeff K (aka Flaminpyro) sells the x-drives and x-boosts for Angelos (Lazeerer), who designed them. See here. Most of the models are typically sold out, but it looks like he's got some fixed current ones left, and an adjustable that will do 1.6A, if you really want to run lower power.

http://laserpointerforums.com/f39/x-drive-x-boost-88589.html

FYI, it's also possible to buy bare drivers from DTR, if for some reason you want to get the diode somewhere else (not that there's a much better option, though occasionally they'll come for sale cheap on the Buy/Sell/Trade forum, when someone tears a projector apart). If you email him and ask for a quote, he'll typically hook you up.

I totally understand the process you're going through, as I went through the exact same thing when I built my first laser. There are many options, tradeoffs, etc, and it can be hard to weigh the pros and cons between each. The design process a fun exercise though. In the end, availability is often a bigger factor than you might think at first, hence why DTR is such a great option, as he's reliable and pretty consistent with his products.

And you definitely want to get hooked up with a good machinist, for custom work. Flaminpyro has done all of the work for my custom hosts, but there are several other excellent machinists on the forum.

I am also interested in such a host with a main on/off at the tailcap and a momentary side switch up front. And possibly a deadman switch up front or at the tailcap too. Let us know how your custom host turns out if you get one made.

ebay also has small round locks which could work in the tailcap.

cncyana said:

I am also interested in such a host with a main on/off at the tailcap and a momentary side switch up front. And possibly a deadman switch up front or at the tailcap too. Let us know how your custom host turns out if you get one made.

ebay also has small round locks which could work in the tailcap.

Click to expand...

Cool! I am thinking that a 3 way switch setup like two linked lightswitches would be best. So when one is off the other turns it on... If I'm thinking right.

So when the rear clicky is off, the momentary side switch turns it on, and when the rear clicky is on, the momentary turns it off. I think they both just need to be 3 connection switches vs the normal two and be connected right. Pretty sure it isn't a bid deal. Might be soace considerations but they are only a fe mm bigger than normal ones if I'm on track. back to my work for now...

I am considering asking ehgemus to build a: stainless shell + copper sink but I don't know if it can be done and if so, price may be high. I wanted the copper sink to be able to take the usual 12x30mm module but also have a screw-in driver module like a C6 in case I want a separate driver setup.

About your interconnected switch idea, it sounds like an accidental activation waiting to happen but maybe I'm not understanding your design. In my design, I want the main on-off switch at the tail which needs to be activated prior to the momentary side switch. This makes me feel a bit safer than just a momentary side switch by itself.

Yeah, and it looks like it would be a lot harder than I thought the way they make the clicky's... I seaerched and couldn't find a 3 way version. That sounds like a hreat idea. I just talked to him about the copper and he doesn't work with it I guess. Maybe nor nesc, looks like a lot do great without it. Especially a 2x18650 like mine will be (now that I know I can go from 2x18650 to 1x18650 with an xdrive and 445 9mm.

cncyana said:

I am considering asking ehgemus to build a: stainless shell + copper sink but I don't know if it can be done and if so, price may be high. I wanted the copper sink to be able to take the usual 12x30mm module but also have a screw-in driver module like a C6 in case I want a separate driver setup.

About your interconnected switch idea, it sounds like an accidental activation waiting to happen but maybe I'm not understanding your design. In my design, I want the main on-off switch at the tail which needs to be activated prior to the momentary side switch. This makes me feel a bit safer than just a momentary side switch by itself.

Click to expand...