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Old 08-13-2010, 03:47 AM #1
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Default Videos of multiline argon

I took these tonight. Bryce007 sold me this ALC60X which I got up and running with ease tonight. I didn't want to get one of those crazy Patriot fans because they are simply too loud and I don't think these heads need that kind of air flow. I also consulted with a laser expert I know who said keeping the ambient temp around 50-100C would be good. I used a thermocouple digital temp meter to get a read off the bore heat sink, right down at the bore, so its pretty close to the bore surface temp. With my PAPST 250cfm fan, the temp ran 125C at 10A and ambient was around 100C so, good.

Here are some videos of the laser through a diffraction grating and some smoke, the bare beam and another showing the tube starting up, full power and off WITHOUT air flow. Before I did this I measured the temp as above to get a sense of the time involved to be safe (very safe). so it happens pretty quick. now, you don't have to run your tube without airflow because i risked mine to do this for you.

I am uploading a video showing the head from cold start, idle, full power, shutdown, showing the tube current, output power and surface bore temp. I will upload this once its on youtube.







This video is a long (17 min) demo of the ALC60X measuring bore surface temp, tube current and light output at various stages.



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All together too many lasers:
650nm: 5mw pointer (early)
250mw O-like OL-CR-250 (170mw)

635nm: 500mw pointer rhd build 18650 SH-032 (650mw)
500mw O-like lab

532nm: 100mw SH032 DX module pointer (120mw)
150mw tri Lights Lab (260mw)
600mw Wicked Lasers Spyder III Krypton first gen

473nm 50mw Ultra Lasers Labby (over spec 160mw)
488nm 80mw Multi-line AL60X Argon
445nm: 1.3W Flaminpyro SS (1350mw) 1.4W
Wannaburn Super-small SS (1430mw)
2.9W RDTech 9mm SH032

450nm: 150mw OSRAM single mode 450nm lab
200mw Lazerer OSRAM single mode 450nm

405nm: 100mw WL E3 (85mw)
500mw 405nm O-like lab
500mw 405nm Jayrob SS (560mw)

3x Shinp 650/532nm/445nm 250+100+300mw Light show (modified to include the 445)

numbers in () are average run for 1 min IR filtered

Last edited by plexus; 08-13-2010 at 02:13 PM. Reason: added demo video
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:24 AM #2
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Default Re: Videos of multiline argon

[QUOTE=plexus;764356]I took these tonight. Bryce007 sold me this ALC60X which I got up and running with ease tonight. I didn't want to get one of those crazy Patriot fans because they are simply too loud and I don't think these heads need that kind of air flow. I also consulted with a laser expert I know who said keeping the ambient temp around 50-100C would be good. I used a thermocouple digital temp meter to get a read off the bore heat sink, right down at the bore, so its pretty close to the bore surface temp. With my PAPST 250cfm fan, the temp ran 125C at 10A and ambient was around 100C so, good.

Quote.


Please allow me to explain. I've been using and repairing 60X since 1990 or so.

You need the true 250 cfm to 450 cfm fan. The factory calls for it. Most users do not have the gear to perform a test, and what I advise has to work in adverse situations. P2B3 works nearly into a total stall and has the required air flow.

....We did extensive lifetime testing on the 60X in confined spaces. I'll stand by the Patriot any day of the week. So did the guy who installed 600+ of them, based on that test, in night clubs filled with crud from smoking and fog machines. Few other fans can do the job. PABST makes a few that do, and the export euro heads used a certain Pabst. But most 250 CFM fans can not. The heads do need large amounts of air, and Xerox used a larger fan then the patriot. X = Xerox specification.

I've scrapped at least 25 different commercial systems using 60x, and some went as large as Dayton's 4C440 or 4C445. Its when the head has to sit unattended for 5000 hours with no cleaning, the fins fill with crud, and for that you use the big fan. You also use it when the head is filled with toner. If the head hs been retubed with a older Omni tube, you really need the bigger fan as well.

I've also sold used tubes to quite a few people who allowed the hot air to recirculate back into the system, cooking the original tube.

Take a look at the lifetime vs current chart, in the FAQ, its purely temperature based.

I'm sticking to the patriot and the few fans in its class. Free air CFM is a useless measure of a fan without knowing the behavior under load.

I'm glad your fan worked, but you perhaps would be shocked to see the small fans I've seen installed over the years, and the piles of .65 bore tubes I've seen doing 10-20 mW because of overtemp when it was capable of 150 mW at install. So the advice stays at Patriot class in the FAQ and elsewhere. The P2B3 on a plenum is specified in the factory manual as a example fan.

I'm one of the guys who imported quite a few of these from the Xerox techs in Canada, as well as working closely with 60X rebuilder at one time. I'll stand by both the high airflow requirement and the Patriot for most users. Very few folks can get or afford the Pabst.
Yet the P2B3 shows up everywhere from hamfests to Ebay to McMaster-Carr to Digikey. So when asked, I go with the Patriot because of conservative overkill. It works well, even when the bearings are shot. Sure its noisy, but its what ALCs VP of engineering advised me to use.

I did make a simple mistake on the temperature, my notes show 150F. The plasma core is 700+ F at the wall. This happens when you get old.

Also remember if running CW at full current or for optical stability you need heat removed via the baseplate.


Steve

Last edited by LSRFAQ; 08-13-2010 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 08-13-2010, 01:46 PM #3
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Default Re: Videos of multiline argon

Quote:
Originally Posted by LSRFAQ View Post
[snip]
I did make a simple mistake on the temperature, my notes show 150F. The plasma core is 700+ F at the wall. This happens when you get old.

Also remember if running CW at full current or for optical stability you need heat removed via the baseplate.
Steve
thanks steve. i have read the laser faq around Ar/Kr specifically the ALX60X many times over the last couple weeks before the argon arrived. and having had used 50mW to 15W argon lasers in university, I am aware of the cooling requirements in general. Most of the air cooled argon's I had exposure to used multiple 4-5" muffin fans. I suspect that was because they were more common and reliable and noise was not really an issue in a lab.

Anyway, your FAQ is invaluable so thank you for putting that together. awesome resource!

Based on your numbers (150C at the outside surface of the bore), the fan I have is working well. I am not in a laser show scenario and I will use the thermistor on a regular basis. So, it looks like its working within specs. Sure the Patriot fan is great for airflow but of course its not the only fan out there. Had I not been able to get my hand the Papst fan I would have ordered a Patriot. And also the Papst fan was an unknown hence the measuring of bore surface temp to make sure it was being cooled properly. Again, had it not been, I'd have chucked it.

Here is the spec sheet on the papst. It is also raised 3" off the top surface. When the fan is running and placed into position I don't hear any noticeable speed change nor do I feel any noticeable air flow difference. I know this anecdotal but at the moment I have no way to accurately measure airflow. Hence the temp monitoring.

Here is the spec sheet for the Papst:

http://img.ebmpapst.com/products/dat...DV6224-ENG.pdf

Question: Do you know where I can get a manual for the ALC60X and for an Omnichrome 150? I just want them for curiosity sake.
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All together too many lasers:
650nm: 5mw pointer (early)
250mw O-like OL-CR-250 (170mw)

635nm: 500mw pointer rhd build 18650 SH-032 (650mw)
500mw O-like lab

532nm: 100mw SH032 DX module pointer (120mw)
150mw tri Lights Lab (260mw)
600mw Wicked Lasers Spyder III Krypton first gen

473nm 50mw Ultra Lasers Labby (over spec 160mw)
488nm 80mw Multi-line AL60X Argon
445nm: 1.3W Flaminpyro SS (1350mw) 1.4W
Wannaburn Super-small SS (1430mw)
2.9W RDTech 9mm SH032

450nm: 150mw OSRAM single mode 450nm lab
200mw Lazerer OSRAM single mode 450nm

405nm: 100mw WL E3 (85mw)
500mw 405nm O-like lab
500mw 405nm Jayrob SS (560mw)

3x Shinp 650/532nm/445nm 250+100+300mw Light show (modified to include the 445)

numbers in () are average run for 1 min IR filtered
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Old 08-13-2010, 08:03 PM #4
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Default Re: Videos of multiline argon

Question: Do you know where I can get a manual for the ALC60X and for an Omnichrome 150? I just want them for curiosity sake.[/QUOTE]


Skywise kindly hosts parts of a 150 tuning manual for me at Omnichrome 150R Power Supply Check Out

PM me with a shipping address and cover my costs to copy/ship and I'll send you a 150 tuning manual and a 60 series manual. Your looking at about 60 pages. But most of what you'll get for the 150 is on skywise's page, other then more detailed schmatics,

Steve
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Old 08-16-2010, 05:41 PM #5
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Default Re: Videos of multiline argon

I like argon lasers, they have such beautiful blue green and indigo beams. It will be sad when they are finally replaced by all solid state lasers.
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Old 08-17-2010, 02:21 PM #6
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Default Re: Videos of multiline argon

Quote:
Originally Posted by heruursciences View Post
I like argon lasers, they have such beautiful blue green and indigo beams. It will be sad when they are finally replaced by all solid state lasers.
I'm hoping that's a long time from now. And I expect it will be. DPSS Argon wavelengths ARE available, but at huge prices and miniscule powers (especially compared to the 10+ watts a large frame argon can put out). DPSS is taking over for general use, but ion lasers will be king for high power, wavelength specific applications for a long time to come. I hope.
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:53 PM #7
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Default Re: Videos of multiline argon

[QUOTE=LSRFAQ;764520]
Quote:
Originally Posted by plexus View Post
I took these tonight. Bryce007 sold me this ALC[snip]
Yet the P2B3 shows up everywhere from hamfests to Ebay to McMaster-Carr to Digikey. So when asked, I go with the Patriot because of conservative overkill. It works well, even when the bearings are shot. Sure its noisy, but its what ALCs VP of engineering advised me to use.
[snip]
are you sure its P2B3? I can't find that model on the Rotron site. Closest was PT2B3.
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All together too many lasers:
650nm: 5mw pointer (early)
250mw O-like OL-CR-250 (170mw)

635nm: 500mw pointer rhd build 18650 SH-032 (650mw)
500mw O-like lab

532nm: 100mw SH032 DX module pointer (120mw)
150mw tri Lights Lab (260mw)
600mw Wicked Lasers Spyder III Krypton first gen

473nm 50mw Ultra Lasers Labby (over spec 160mw)
488nm 80mw Multi-line AL60X Argon
445nm: 1.3W Flaminpyro SS (1350mw) 1.4W
Wannaburn Super-small SS (1430mw)
2.9W RDTech 9mm SH032

450nm: 150mw OSRAM single mode 450nm lab
200mw Lazerer OSRAM single mode 450nm

405nm: 100mw WL E3 (85mw)
500mw 405nm O-like lab
500mw 405nm Jayrob SS (560mw)

3x Shinp 650/532nm/445nm 250+100+300mw Light show (modified to include the 445)

numbers in () are average run for 1 min IR filtered
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