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Old 11-26-2013, 11:59 PM #33
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

The string was just placed between the two points, held with a tack, to give me a flat plain the move the ruler along. Probably my best measurement idea yet if allowed to toot my own horn for a bit.

Grating is 1000mm,

I will be using that calculator, as I don't have a graphing calculator to do all these functions.

Also, yes, this won't be perfect, but if there is a pattern between three lines, or if it is accurate for three, then the 4th will follow suit.

Also, the 594 line isn't 1653.5mm, it's 1743.5mm. I am getting fatter fingers...


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Last edited by bloompyle; 11-27-2013 at 12:01 AM.
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:04 AM #34
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloompyle View Post
The string was just placed between the two points, held with a tack, to give me a flat plain the move the ruler along. Probably my best measurement idea yet if allowed to toot my own horn for a bit.
That is a good idea. Mark up the string and not the wall.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bloompyle View Post
Grating is 1000mm
1000mm from the target or do you mean 1000nm spacing?
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:08 AM #35
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

Pardon, 1000ln/mm. It is 3650mm from the wall.

However, I made the mistake of placing the measured order perpendicular, and the zero order, off to the side....
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Old 11-29-2013, 02:25 PM #36
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

The way to solve this is to use optogalvanic spectroscopy with a pure neon lamp. You shine the laser light through the plasma in the lamp.

You need a lock in amplifier, a HV supply with ballast to drive the lamp, a chopper wheel, and a current sensing resistor in the cathode of the lamp. One must be careful that the cathode or anode can be tied to ground.

A NE2 wont cut it as they are .5% argon, it needs to be a lamp with pure neon.

If its not a Raman line, and if it is a Neon line, the plasma in the lamp will adsorb a tiny amount of the laser light, and as its adsorbed, it will modulate the discharge current in the lamp a tiny amount. The Phase Sensitive Detector in the lock-in will see the tiny modulation current.
The reference phase of the Lock In is driven by a photodiode synced to the chopper wheel.

Not a experiment for beginners.
The trick is finding a glow discharge lamp with known pure neon in it.

Steve

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Old 11-29-2013, 02:34 PM #37
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

Would an old Russian Nixie tube work? I have some old IN-1s that supposedly are pure neon.

I also have a 6" neon discharge tube you could borrow. But you're probably better off buying a purpose built spectrum discharge lamp, they don't cost much.
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Old 11-29-2013, 05:33 PM #38
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

That seems like an interesting experiment, most of it was foreign to me, leaving little room to comment.

However, all the math is currently pointing at 609.07 as well..
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Old 11-29-2013, 11:55 PM #39
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

Im really interested to see how your Cu turns out. I have been planning a build for a while, just cant undertake it in my dorm. I already have nearly all the parts. Basically going for the tube inside an insulated quarts toaster oven (might just use the quarts elements and make a new chamber) to heat the CuCl. Having a MOT charge up some caps and using a big SCR to discharge them into some doubler stages or maybe a step up transformer around 1:8 and into the tube. I have the math written down somewhere so I know exactly what value caps I need to pump the amount of power I want through it when im running it at the frequency I chose. I dont remember the figures but I had it worked out to be running around 1000W through the tube at a high enough frequency so the ions stay dissociated. I am hoping that it will be enough power to allow the tube to keep temperature on its own without the heating elements.
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Old 11-30-2013, 12:10 AM #40
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

I am going to look into running enough power through the spark gap to keep myself from needing to pulse alternating voltages... Though I haven't worked out the power details yet. Been focusing my time elsewhere.
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:02 AM #41
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

From my research you need to be pulsing around 4khz or more to keep the ions dissociated CuCl/CuBr. Not sure if that will be the same for what you are planning.
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Old 11-30-2013, 02:29 AM #42
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

Quote:
Originally Posted by benmwv View Post
From my research you need to be pulsing around 4khz or more to keep the ions dissociated CuCl/CuBr. Not sure if that will be the same for what you are planning.
I feel it'll probably be similar. If anything, it gives me somewhere to begin. Not sure how I feel about building an alternating voltage generator out of a TEA laser.

Also, I haven't even looked into thyratrons yet.
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Old 12-05-2013, 02:46 AM #43
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

I have mentally finalized my design for the TEA laser for the Cu base.

I'll be setting up the spark gap elevated off of the foil/dielectric layers. Though I will need to be able to solder the foil of the spark gap, down to the main platform.

That'll be the laser base.

This "base" however will be elevated about 6-8" or so. Then under the cavity will be a small hole with a tube epoxied into it, with the just below the spark gap.

However, it must be noted that this tube needs to remain warm to keep the Cu vapor rising, as vapor temp is 110C, it will need to remain at this temperature the entire time. Gasses and vapors cool quickly, merely due to more surface to interact, and release heat.

So perhaps I could use a heat resistant tubing of some sort, not positive on the material yet.

Though I will have a copper wire wrapped around this tubing, and induction heating to keep the tube hot, and the Cu hot, thus the Cu rising.

Be definition this will be an NCu(Ac)2 laser. So 337nm, 520nm, and 578nm.

Oh! Damn! I could use this as a pump source! Holy hell!

Anyway. The Cu(Ac)2 will be in a separating tube. I can't remember the exact term, but that's fine. Anyway, hot plate underneath heating the Cu(Ac)2 to 110C+, boom, vapor. Sent up through the heated tubing, into the cavity.

One key point I never mentioned. This tube will also have a hole in the side, with airline tubing going to an apparatus on my sink to create a slight vacuum. It's no 0.05torr, but it'll keep get the air out, and I will be able to fill the cavity with Cu to neutralize the pressure difference.

Also should be noted that the tubing from beaker to cavity, will have the ability to crimp it, so that upon activation, all vapor will go to the tube to equalize pressure.

So..uh, yeah. Vapor from tube, heating element, cavity, lasing.

Oh yes! The spark gap will be pulsed at an INCREDIBLE frequency. ~4khz, 4000 times a second. That way the Cu will remain disassociated from the halide.

I think that about covers tonight's ponderings.

TEA laser should be my Christmas gift, lol

Night fellow scientists!
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HeNe/gas reference thread
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:28 AM #44
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

That all sounds very interesting. You're going to need a heck of a power supply.
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Old 12-05-2013, 03:59 AM #45
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

It is quite hard to get break rates for spark gaps over 600Hz as the arc takes time to quench. There are spark gap tubes which are rated for several KHz which may work for you, or you'll have to build one hell of a rotary gap, but don't expect two bolts in open air to achieve anything above 1KHz (and that's mostly when you cheat with pulsed dc HV).
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Old 12-05-2013, 11:05 AM #46
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Default Re: TEA Cu vapor? 609.07nm? HeNeAr?

I'll look into one of those tubes. Either way, still better than alternating voltages.

EDIT: Looked into spark gap tubes, unfortunately this won't work, I will need to send the vapor through the gap, the gap is sealed within the tube, so I wouldn't be able to use it. I considered perhaps having a spark gap tube, feeding the laser's spark gap, though that wouldn't work either, and that idea died quickly.

I wonder how they made Cu vapors to run fully disassociated... Or if there are any commercially (and cheap) heating elements to get 1400C+ for a pure vapor setup.

Though it is likely that I will just need to cycle alternating voltages like originally planned, shame on me for trying to make this easy...er.
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496nm Tunable OMNI 532
502nm Tunable OMNI 532
514nm Tunable OMNI 532
520nm 40mW MSV2
532nm Various pointers
543nm GreeNe 2mW
568nm ~20mW ArKr whitelight line
589nm 126mW PGL-III-C
594nm Rigel-6; 4.75mW + <1mW
604nm 2x <1mW multiline
609nm Ne Penning mixture Ar line from REO 612nm
612nm HeNe 1mW ML 4 line; Raman 6 line
629nm <1mW Raman 6 line
633nm 1-4mw red HeNe
635nm Raman 6 line
638nm 20mW single mode
640nm Raman 6 line
647nm ~10mW ArKr whitelight Kr line
650nm Raman 6 line
658nm LPC-826
685nm 20mW
808nm Modded NewWish pen


HeNe/gas reference thread

Last edited by bloompyle; 12-05-2013 at 05:24 PM.
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