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Old 02-13-2012, 03:36 AM #1
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Default Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

Here's an interesting task I need to tackle. As part of a gift, I'm creating a (very heavy) battery pack (actually multiple packs) that can be used for a wilderness 12V power source.

I have about a hundred 18650 cells that were harvested from various laptop packs - all of which known to be decent. The 18650s already went through two stages of "weeding out", and what I have now are just the "good" cells that will charge up to full voltage, and seem to discharge fairly appropriately.

The pack I'm designing uses a whole bunch of 4S1P holders, that have safety protection PCBs built-in. So I don't need to worry about that portion.

However, what I DO need to think about, is how best to group the cells into packs of 4 that have similar characteristics. If I don't, and one of the four cells has a lower capacity, it will hit below the cutoff voltage sooner, and trigger the pack's protection mechanism to shut off before the other 3 cells have been allowed to give us all of their energy.

What doesn't matter, is consistency between packs. If one pack has, as a whole, 50% more capacity than another, that doesn't matter. The packs themselves are used one-by-one.

Challenge:
- What is the best way to "capacity-bin" 18650s?

The Labour-Intensive Approach:
- Would be to attach each cell to a known load, while attached to a voltmeter, and track the time it takes to drop below some Voltage figure.

But this approach is of course time consuming for a hundred or so cells. I'm thinking that there either must be a better way, or there must be a gizmo / gadget that could be purchased for the purpose of binning batteries?

One of my ideas would be to see if there was a really simple device I could make from passive components that would basically keep an LED lit until it dropped below, say, exactly 3V. Then I could make up like 20 of them (if they really were simple/cheap). Then I could attach one to each of 20 cells, and then just glance over every few minutes. As soon as 4 LEDs were off, I'd group those 4 cells. Then the next 4 to turn off, etc. I don't actually need numerical data, I just need to be able to group the cells.


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Last edited by rhd; 02-13-2012 at 03:41 AM.
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:20 AM #2
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

You could always buy those LiPo alarms. They also work for Li-Ions and they are pretty cheap.

http://www.all-battery.com/LipoBatte...mLowPower.aspx
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:58 AM #3
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jufran88 View Post
You could always buy those LiPo alarms. They also work for Li-Ions and they are pretty cheap.

Rechargeable Batteries & Battery Chargers - LiPO Battery Power Level Tester & Low Power Alarm
Thought about that - but I haven't been able to find one that would work for a single cell.

Even thought that one you linked says it will work for 1S, everywhere else I've seen them, they say the voltmeter will work for 1S, but the alarm will only work for 2S or higher. See here:

eBay - New & used electronics, cars, apparel, collectibles, sporting goods & more at low prices
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Old 02-13-2012, 06:35 AM #4
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

Hmm, maybe it's a different version that's able to do 1s? You could ask them on livechat.

It should still work since the description says the red LED will flash at 3.3V and the buzzer will sound below 3V.

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Old 02-13-2012, 11:51 AM #5
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

You could build a simple comparator circuit with adjustable
input.

Jerry
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Old 02-13-2012, 12:44 PM #6
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

Possible, but you will hardly succeed without something like CBA-III
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:00 PM #7
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenner View Post
Possible, but you will hardly succeed without something like CBA-III
Why would a Comparator not be able to detect a predetermined
voltage level...

Are you really comparing a $149.95 battery tester...

West Mountain Radio - CBA III - Computerized Battery Analyzer

against an inexpensive $0.51 comparator solution...

Digi-Key - AP331AWGDICT-ND (Manufacturer - AP331AWG-7)

He wants to test many batteries at the same time... that would
cost a lot to have 100 testers at $149.95 each...


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Last edited by lasersbee; 02-13-2012 at 05:03 PM. Reason: Spelling errors
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:07 PM #8
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brenner View Post
Possible, but you will hardly succeed without something like CBA-III
Interesting - there are clearly some products out there to do exactly what I'm looking for. This is phenomenal:
Computerized Battery Analyzer 3 CBA III
I'm tempted. I'm not sure if I can spend the $150 right now.

This looks interesting, though I'm scared by the poor translation. I'm not sure if "residual capacity" means capacity of the cell:
RC lipo battery Analyzer Watt Meter Checker Balancer | eBay
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:14 PM #9
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

HkJ uses that very same CBA. It's a pretty awesome machine!
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:16 PM #10
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
Interesting - there are clearly some products out there to do exactly what I'm looking for. This is phenomenal:
Computerized Battery Analyzer 3 CBA III
I'm tempted. I'm not sure if I can spend the $150 right now.

This looks interesting, though I'm scared by the poor translation. I'm not sure if "residual capacity" means capacity of the cell:
RC lipo battery Analyzer Watt Meter Checker Balancer | eBay
Yeah that ought to do it... Lets see....
$149.95 X 20 = $2999.00
[/sarcastic]


Quote:
Originally Posted by rhd View Post
But this approach is of course time consuming for a hundred or so cells. I'm thinking that there either must be a better way, or there must be a gizmo / gadget that could be purchased for the purpose of binning batteries?

One of my ideas would be to see if there was a really simple device I could make from passive components that would basically keep an LED lit until it dropped below, say, exactly 3V. Then I could make up like 20 of them (if they really were simple/cheap). Then I could attach one to each of 20 cells, and then just glance over every few minutes. As soon as 4 LEDs were off, I'd group those 4 cells. Then the next 4 to turn off, etc. I don't actually need numerical data, I just need to be able to group the cells.
Sorry... I went by what you asked....


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Old 02-13-2012, 05:18 PM #11
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lasersbee View Post
Sorry... I went by what you asked....

Jerry
I know ya did.... and then my eyes saw the awesomeness of what was out there

EDIT:

No, you know what - I'm DIYing this guy

I'm going to create a constant current driver, with some diodes and an LED as a load (easier for me to think of diodes as a load for a constant current circuit, than resistors). Then I'll take your comparator approach to create some sort of cut-off that will flip off the circuit below 3V.

Then, since I'll know the constant current discharge rate, I can either calculate for the mAH (if I want it), or just bin based on which LEDs went off first.
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Last edited by rhd; 02-13-2012 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 02-13-2012, 05:44 PM #12
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Default Re: Testing to match battery characteristics - long after their sources are known?

Maybe this will help?


Then again this is made for 2 cells, but maybe you can modify it for one cell.
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405nm 455 mA BDR-S06J GUIDESMAN (G2 Drive) - link
445nm 1500 mA A140 SOLARFORCE L2 GUNMETAL (FLEXDRIVE V5) - link
445nm 1566 mA A140 SIPIK HK21 (G2 Drive) - link
473nm B&W Tek BWB-10-OEM - 10mW
532nm SKY Lasers DPL - 200mW
638nm 1071 mA GUIDESMAN (AMC7135) - link
638nm 1053 mA SS 26650 (AMC7135) - link

LED Maglite 3D DD SST-90 5700K w/ Aspheric lens - link
LED Maglite 3D XM-L U2 bin - link
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