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Old 08-30-2010, 08:19 PM #17
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

I've got a metal vapor project stirring up- I've been making vapor deposited crystals of metals up to silver for some time now!!


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Old 08-30-2010, 08:24 PM #18
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

Well...not really comparable to chemical lasers. Heating up and evaportaing metals, feeding HV pulses....thats "easy"...easier than handle chemicals.
Metal-vapor laser are very interesting as well, but they dont have the power to burn ^^

There are some dudes over here in Germany making similar lasers. Cu-vapor, Mn-vapor. True DIY lasers....always worth a try.
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Old 08-31-2010, 12:43 AM #19
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

Those are entirely different beasts, though not easy to construct either.

I wouldn't say that constructing a COIL or AGIL is entirely impossible, its just darn dangerous to do, and as little application for the hobby. In military application such lasers are constructed as airborn weapons, which allows venting off the exhaust quite easily.

I have a masters degree in chemistry, but anything that vents off HF scares the hell out of me - i'd rather juggle with bottles of sulfuric acid ;p
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Old 08-31-2010, 07:46 AM #20
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

Cool! I am a lab-technician myself. Same reason right here. Way to dangerous. Just like handling microwaves. Interesting as hell, but your brain is telling you: Keep your hands off it ;-)

Sad but true, those chemical laser have no equal when it comes to output.
The airborne-laser will get canceld, just like the THEL. Or maybe not...but nevermind. Its just way to stupid and dangerous carrying around chemicals. DPSS lasers man....5 more years... ;-)
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Old 09-02-2010, 01:56 AM #21
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

I wouldn't limit things to DPSS, as there are very interesting gas lasers out there that could be homebrew.

The problem with lasers that derive their power from chemical reaction rather than electrical pumping remains the same though - as fas as i know there is nothing remotely safe to be constructed.

I'd much rather work with microwaves, since then i'd know what power levels, voltages and other hazards are present. With chemically powered lasers both the feeds and exhausts are so dangerous that they'd scare off even brave and seasoned chemists.

I've worked with plenty of dangerous compounds, toxic, explostive, carcinogenic and what not, but the sheer nature and volume of the substances involved here deter me.
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Old 09-02-2010, 03:04 AM #22
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

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Originally Posted by Seoul_lasers View Post
HF is Hydrofluoric acid just as HCl is a gas. It needs to be Aqueous to be useful. right!
Wrong. When the gas is breathed in it turns into an acid in your lungs. One breath of HF or 4 of Cl and you die a terribly painful death.
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Old 09-02-2010, 07:43 AM #23
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

What I meant was weaponized lasers will be more DPSS than chemical or gas. More compact, more efficient.

When its about homemade high power lasers, chemical lasers are no option. Totally agree with you. But: When you are a guy handling hazardous stuff in labs, you probably wont even think about handling HF at home! And brave is the wrong word :-) stupid would fit.

Breathing in gas which forms acid in your lungs.......you dont want that.
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Old 09-02-2010, 12:31 PM #24
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

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I've got a metal vapor project stirring up- I've been making vapor deposited crystals of metals up to silver for some time now!!
Could you vapor deposit uranium or thorium? That would be interesting.
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Old 09-02-2010, 02:23 PM #25
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

Should be possbile. Dont know which limits PVD and CVD have...
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:59 AM #26
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

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Wrong. When the gas is breathed in it turns into an acid in your lungs. One breath of HF or 4 of Cl and you die a terribly painful death.
Unforntunately, it is far worse than that.

The fluoride ions in HF will readily bind with any calcium one in your bloodstream, doing severe damage to neural pathways, bone, and many other vital tissues.

HCl is relatively friendly, and the skin offers protection at moderate concentration. I've more than once plucked a fallen PCB out of a few-% HCl etching system with bare hands, and the only action required is rinsing with water afterwards, resulting in no ill effect at all.

As for weapons use, chemically pumped lasers offer great advantages. Systems like COIL or AGIL allow very good efficiency from chemical fuel to optical output - much better than running a generator to power a CO2 laser or some similar scheme.

Unfortunately there is no 'mild' version of a chemical laser that works on and releases safe products only. Perhaps it would be feasible to pump a dye type laser using hydrogen peroxide as the oxidizer, not unlike what is done in lightsticks. I'm not sure if there are any suitable dyes available or that such a thing has ever been demonstrated though.
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Old 09-03-2010, 07:53 AM #27
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

Bones and blood? Guess most of it will be absorbed by mucous membranes...all the way down to your lungs.

Actually it doesnt matters what exactly happens....you dont want it to happen...thats a fact. ;-)
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Old 09-03-2010, 12:50 PM #28
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

@Ben

I knew that. Death from HF results from it binding to the calcium in your heart, and you die of a heart attack. 25in^2 of skin contact is lethal. If it's on your skin, you're pretty much f*cked because it nearly instantly gets absorbed.
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Old 09-03-2010, 02:59 PM #29
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

It really goes for your heart? Thats REAL bad.
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Old 09-03-2010, 04:53 PM #30
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

That's why I don't go near the stuff. HF is nasty, and it'll even eat right through glass.

But an iodine laser shouldn't be very hard to pull off. Chlorine is fairly easy to work with, and easy to make.

You can't buy sani-flush anymore, but you can get the same chemical (sodium bisulfate) from pool stores.



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Old 09-03-2010, 05:20 PM #31
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

The thing with the glass is kinda hard to explain, but has nothing to do with badness of an acid ;-) must look scary though.
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Old 09-05-2010, 01:11 AM #32
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Default Re: tackling a DIY COIL O2/I2 chemical laser for fun

Well, HF doesn't "go" for anything specific in the body, but the fluorine will readily react with calcium ions, forming insoluble CaF2. Calcium plays a vital role in many functions of the body. Its mostly known as a component of bone, which HF will readily disturb and dissolve, but it also involved in neurochemistry.

Hf is a poison with two faces: Its highly corrosive acid, comparable to HCl or HNO3, but the really mean part is how poisonous fluoride is to the human body. Fluroine is an element completely alien to life, although it is used in toothpastes because it can help give teeth a better-than-nature-provides protection against caries.

Such toothpastes contain no more that about 0.1% of fluorine, and also a warning not to ingest them, and not use them for children. Even these tiny amounts of fluorine can adversely affect neural development in children, and if ingested even do damage to adults on the long term.

The dissolving-glass aspect is just a curiosity, and not important for biological hazard. As far as the latter goes, fluorine is a darn dangerous element, comparable in toxicity with things like ionic mercury, arsenic and such.
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