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Old 05-14-2010, 02:59 AM #1
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Question Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

I don't exactly know too much about laser or fiber optics, but I'm going to throw this out there anyways.



Example A:
Would this be more efficient than fiber optics? Could you maybe send a flashing laser beam from hundreds of miles away with less friction than fiber optics?

Example B:
Sunlight takes 8 minutes to get to earth, but AFAIK, when communicating with probes on mars and stuff, it takes like 30 minutes. Would it be faster to send a laser beam to mars using morse code or binary? Mars is more closer to us than the sun, i think.

Example C:
Light contains waves as well as particles, could you make light JUST, particles? If so, could you make it orbit earth? Or do photons act differently when it comes to gravity? Are photons even the particles I'm talking about in light?

Am I just talking jibberish? Has this been brought up many times before? Should I shut up?

Lol, really, what do you think about this?


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Old 05-14-2010, 03:16 AM #2
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

I don't know what you're talking about, so here's a bunny with a pancake on his head.
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:19 AM #3
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

I see two pancakes...
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:25 AM #4
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

Does it really matter how many pancakes are on the bunnys head??? lol.
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:34 AM #5
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

Of course, the more the better/weirder/more random.

@OP: Light doesn't work that way, photons don't have mass. Look up "coherent light" and "photons" and similar things to get a better understanding of them. It also makes for an interesting read.(was for me.)
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Old 05-14-2010, 03:50 AM #6
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

Oh, well that certainly puts a damper on my ideas. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:35 AM #7
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Lightbulb Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbubl3s View Post
Oh, well that certainly puts a damper on my ideas. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
I was kind of lost by your drawings.
EXPLAIN clearly what you are talking about. We might be able to help you then.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:00 AM #8
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Wink Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

LOL ..... sorry, but perhaps you have a little bit confused ideas about what exactly photons are (well, being honest, it's not so much surprising ..... also experts, basically, nave no totally clear ideas about what exactly is a photon )

Anyway ..... the distance in which your beam can travel depend from the focusing system, efficence of the apparatus AND particle density of the media in which it travel (just for made the things more simples) ..... supposing you can build a 100% efficent focusing system, the beam become still dispersed from particles in the media (atmosphere and space, that, remember, is NOT void), so your system can work, but have limits ..... also, BTW, some links are already made using lasers, for communications

About the third draw, it's simply a no ..... light photons in state of particle have no mass that can be influenced from gravity and "kept in orbit", and as waves have not the right frequency for become reflected from the ionized layers of the upper atmosphere and "bounce back" like radio waves .....
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:03 AM #9
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics



Dude...... are you serious... if so I can explain.
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Old 05-14-2010, 12:28 PM #10
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Talking Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobhaha View Post


Dude...... are you serious... if so I can explain.
Me ? ..... Why ? .....
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Old 05-14-2010, 05:53 PM #11
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbubl3s View Post
I don't exactly know too much about laser or fiber optics, but I'm going to throw this out there anyways.



Example A:
Would this be more efficient than fiber optics? Could you maybe send a flashing laser beam from hundreds of miles away with less friction than fiber optics?

Example B:
Sunlight takes 8 minutes to get to earth, but AFAIK, when communicating with probes on mars and stuff, it takes like 30 minutes. Would it be faster to send a laser beam to mars using morse code or binary? Mars is more closer to us than the sun, i think.

Example C:
Light contains waves as well as particles, could you make light JUST, particles? If so, could you make it orbit earth? Or do photons act differently when it comes to gravity? Are photons even the particles I'm talking about in light?

Am I just talking jibberish? Has this been brought up many times before? Should I shut up?

Lol, really, what do you think about this?
Yeah, light creates friction, that is why lasers are burning stuff, because of friction. What?

No, Mars is in another galaxy actually, everything is an illusion. There is no spoon. Nor cereal to use it with.

What?

Yes!

You obviously lack common sense to figure stuff out.
If light travels from Sun to us (Distance A) in 8.4 minutes, and from us to Mars (Distance B) in 20 minutes (not 30), what the hell do you think it's closer?!

Let's not forget the picture where laser is circulating around Earth. EPIC! I am saving that one, and putting on verydemotivational.com.

No offence intended but you really gotta brush up common sense a bit.

Wikipedia is a great place to start.


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Old 05-14-2010, 06:15 PM #12
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

When you are talking about light being photons and waves this is somewhat correct but let me clear it up a little for you.

It's basically to do with the wave-particle duality theory that light can take on properties of both particles (photons) and waves, for example diffraction can only happen if light were waves, and photoelectric effect where light shined on a metal surface causes electrons to release can only be explained using the particle theory.

Personally I think they're both wrong but just work, eventually we will find something that unifies both theory's together, or that things are conscious.

"There is no reality in the absence of observation"

So what I'm saying is light is either particle or wave, not both at the same time.

From what I can understand by your diagram your asking if you can transmit information via laser too the moon, well in theory yes you could but trying to find a laser with an infinity small divergence over such a distance to reach a surface as a small beam is as far as I know impossible using today's current technology, not too mention the issue of planets and other space matter getting in the way of the beam + the power of the laser would need to be insane, I think they managed to get one on the moon but the final dot was very large, and that was just too the moon.

And as for C, I assume your asking if a beam can bend due too the gravity of the Earth? No.. Lol, have you not seen the videos of the pointers in the sky? They don't bend do they.

Whilst photons are effected by gravity, to bend like that a black hole is needed, as on the event horizon of the black whole the escape velocity is above the speed of light, there for causing light too be sucked in.

I think that's correct, someone correct me if I'm wrong but it seems logical. Unless my laser isn't working properly and everyone else's is bending around the Earth.

Hope you appreciate the long answer :P
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:28 PM #13
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

Well I didn't know photons don't have mass. Allwell, Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to in this corner over here and cut myself.

Well thanks for telling me all these things, like I said, I'm just getting into this type of thing.
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Old 05-15-2010, 06:52 PM #14
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

A: Shooting a laser a few hundred miles is no big deal if the earth was flat. For the non-flat earth: if there's a line of sight, communication with lasers is possible. Just use a big beam diameter to lower the divergence. This will lower the losses on the way.
Efficiency is a different thing. There are very sensitive detectors, but to have a usefull communication this way requires a lot of difficult things. Very high power lasers, huge optics, anything to let enough power reach the other side.
Fibers contain their light, the only losses are absorbtion, which can be pretty low for decent fibers. And with fibers, it's possible to amplify the signal along the way. And it doesn't require a direct line of sight but can be used like a normal able.

B: it works, but not easy. It has even been done with a retroreflector at the moon. Fire a huge laser and get a few photons back. Similar problem as in A, but even bigger because of the large distance to the moon and the tiny reflection the retroreflectors have compared to the beam diameter at that time. One way communication is far easier.

C: The atmosphere does have some influence, but nowhere as big as drawn. If you need very high resolution GPS it is possible to compensate by using another GPS unit at a known near location. That unit then calculates the error introduced by the atmosphere. It won't be bigger than a few meters.
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Old 05-16-2010, 01:59 AM #15
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

Just my 2 cents. Everything BUT light itself has mass, the way light 'goes about' is that it converts all it's mass into energy, so light, in essence is pure energy. But, I can't really provide a comparison, because it's like comparing a mouse to an aligator, too many things through the scale off. There isn't a good representation of the energy to mass ratio given that light moves at millions of miles per second, and rockets go...hundreds of miles per HOUR (and rockets are one of our fastest things)...see the issue? Light essentially is at a ratio of infinity : 0 with an energy to mass ratio. Which is completely feasible, so, other than light EVERYTHING has mass. But that's a whole other class that I won't bother getting involved with.

Back to light, all 'light' is, is electromagnetic 'radiation' which makes it completely understandable how somebody might think it IS something, it's radiation, radiation is a thing right? It MUST have mass...right? But, electromagnetic throws it all off. Essentially...it only exhibits PROPERTIES of particles, but it's still a wave. I believe (and don't quote me on this) the property is refered to as 'Wave-Particle Duality'. Meaning it shows resemblence of 'a' particle as far as behavior, yet it's really a wave. Think of it as having multiple-personalities. If you want to get really blown away, think about a guy named Ibn al-Haytham (sp) it's a funky name, so if I spelt it wrong, don't shoot me. This was a man back in the good ol' days (the 1000's to be exact) who gave the first correct explanation on how we see! He wrote it all in his book, anyway, he had said that everything, every 'point' on a surface being illuminated (shined upon) was giving off light 'waves' in all directions! HE WAS RIGHT! So, what you see isn't that your eye is looking at things, it's that everything else is shining into your eye, EVERYTHING! Light isn't some manade thing, it's everywhere. But only one wave at any 'point' can be seen, or else, you'ed see everything, at every possible angle. A table would look like a sphere, EVERYTHING would look like spheres, because you'd see things from and infinite number of X, Y, and Z locations. He was also the first to propose that light was infact a tiny TINY RAY that travels at a finite speed (i.e. it has a set speed, it doesn't get faster or slower).

Anyway, I've said enough on the subject, so in short, light IS NOT a particle, but in-fact it just ACTS like a particle. Hope that clarifies it a bit for you. =]
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Old 05-16-2010, 03:21 PM #16
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Default Re: Laser ~VS~ Fiber Optics

Light moves at 300 000 km/s, satellites in a low earth orbit (or the ISS) move at about 27,400 km/h (8 km/s). Particles in a decent accelerator move at a nice fraction of the light speed, the LHC should come pretty close (0.999999991 c, or about 3 metres per second slower than of the speed of light c).

The wave-particle duality is really a duality, it's essentially both. It's possible to let "particles" like electrons interfere, which is wave behaviour. But in so many situations this quantum mechanical behaviour can be ignored. Fascinating particle physics. Your laser wouldn't work without the quantum mechanical behaviour, but for light proparation the classical wave description is just fine, as in this case.
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