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Old 03-18-2008, 07:56 AM #17
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

Thanks again to everyone for all the feedback. Lemme throw some more info at you.

IR lasersights are commonly available if you are .gov. Most small arms systems are in the 800-900nm range. They have no trouble making smal dots that remain relatively small to distances of several hundred meters.

Joe Citizen cannot buy this stuff, unless he snaps up something from Craigslist for $2000, that has essentially been stolen from .gov.

As you know, FDA prohibits sale of complete IR laser systems to citizens, but anyone can buy components, including modules.

I bought a $300 Hong Kong clone of a PAQ (a military lasersight). The Hong Kong guy sells hacked G&P brand PAQ clones. He takes out the red laser, and replaces it with an IR module. It has a single collimator, and makes a small dot that remains small enogh to be efective beyond 200 meters.

However, the units are at least 5mw, and with Gen3 NV equipment, the bloom from the laser is so massive that it essentially obscures the target.

As I am using the term, bloom refers to a giant intensely bright messy ball of reflected light. My PAQ clone made a 24-inch "sun" on the bark of a pine tree at 50 meters. For a rifle sight, that's useless.

Bloom is not the same thing as divergence. Bloom is a function of output power. Divergence is just linear expansion of dot size with distance.

I've learned that the green laser I hacked had a collimating lens on the diode, an expander lens after the crystal, and another collimating lens on the tip.

If I'm going to salvage this project, I think it will have to be accomplished by integrating a collimated IR module into the brass carrier. Either that or find some way to get a collimator closer to the diode of the laser I have, and try to focus that.

Anybody got any ideas?

Regarding the question about hi-power IR lasers: FWIW - I think that wavelength could be used to manage bloom. I bought a $12 980nm 35mw module from aixiz. It's quite dim through NV. Focused to the smallest (therefore most intense) possible dot, it's not visible past 40 meters. But it no bloom issues at all, even at 10 feet.

In my limited experience, a 5mw 850nm laser is obnoxiously bright, and a 35mw 980nm laser is too dim. I'm sure there are many possible happy balances in there somewhere. For eye safety, the smart move seems to be the near-IR spectrum at low power.


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Old 03-18-2008, 04:10 PM #18
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

so NV sees some wavelengths of IR better than others? and 1064 would probably be very dim if visible at all through NV?
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Old 03-18-2008, 04:51 PM #19
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

A 5mw 850nm bright? :-? I doubt it.
Anyway, you said that the PAQ clone that you have is useless because it's too bright.How about taking it apart and messing with the pot? If it doesn't have a pot, maybe you can add another resistor and turn it down to 1-2mW? :-/ That's seems reasonable.You can even take it as far as putting a 50%-80% or so filter right in from of the aperture.
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Old 03-18-2008, 05:03 PM #20
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Switch
A 5mw 850nm bright? :-? I doubt it.
im sure he means 5mw 850nm is bright with the night vision
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:20 AM #21
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by pwnstar
so NV sees some wavelengths of IR better than others? and 1064 would probably be very dim if visible at all through NV?
That's what I discovered with the 35mw 980nm aixiz module: it was surprisingly dim. And likely quite hazardous. I viewed it only through NV.

My NV is OMNI4 Gen3 thin-film. It's a pretty decent tube.

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Old 03-19-2008, 05:27 AM #22
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Switch
A 5mw 850nm bright? :-? I doubt it.
Anyway, you said that the PAQ clone that you have is useless because it's too bright.How about taking it apart and messing with the pot? If it doesn't have a pot, maybe you can add another resistor and turn it down to 1-2mW? *:-/ That's seems reasonable.You can even take it as far as putting a 50%-80% or so filter right in from of the aperture.

1 - the 5mw 850nm laser was obnoxiously bright with NV. Useless as a lasersight. It was not visible without NV, although my handycam could see it just fine.

2 - The IR paq clone is based on a G&P unit, available for $65. The guy in Hong Kong opens it, installs a $25 IR module, glues it shut, and sells it for $300.

It didn't work for me, so i returned it for a refund.

Then I bought a non-hacked paq clone for $65. When I have time next week, I'll open it and see what's in it. I'll install my own IR module, and see how she goes.

It will be cool, but not as cool as the green flashlight-style sight pictured above, because the green thing has a better alignment and locking mechanism.

Thanks!

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Old 03-19-2008, 07:01 AM #23
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

Ok. *so essentially even though the NV equipment see's in the IR range it's only effective at certain wavelenghts. *Your 850nm laser is getting too high for it to be effectively seen. *seen yes, but not as well as your wanting. *so here is what i propose.
A dvd-rw, contains 2 diodes in it. *One obvioulsy is 660nm red. *the other though is ir. *some cliam in the 780nm range. *I'm thinking this would be a good diode to throw into whatever it is that your looking to accomplish. *I've got a ton of those that I'll gladly give to you for shipping costs. *I also would be more than willing to tweak and adjust the setup you have there (having made my own 100mw laser sight) and throw in the diode mentioned above. *your going to have to provide me with pictures of the damage done up to now to the existing unit you have and everything else *your wanting to modify. *I'm also up for conferencing over laserchat, msn, yahoo, or google chat. *Just let me know and we'll get ya setup. *I wasn't concerned about the bloom. *I know that has more to do with intensity not divergence. *I'm merely saying using one lens like in a typical red module your not going to achieve a colimated ir laser. *it will require more than one optic to colimate.

There are tricks that can be used to remove stuck on glue (boiling the module in a bag) and other things that we can utilize to dissasemble the components we need to save * Also could you please provide pics of the other equipment your talking about PAQ and such. *I'm not quite sure what it is and how easy it will be to modify until i can see stuff. *Anyway, we WILL get ya setup I have no doubt. *it's just a matter of HOW?!?!?

BTW. how much did you pay for that ebayser?? I know that what you want to do can be done in that if we can just adjust the focus of the first focus ring.
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Old 03-19-2008, 04:55 PM #24
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

A generous offer! THANKS!

I know I've typed some long threads, and it's hard to keep track of everything, especially due to all my newb issues and questions.

Against my best wishes, this project is on hold for a week.

The ebayser was $90. I'm pretty sure I'll be buying another to try again based on what I've learned so far.

The other types (PAQ & PEQ) are clamshell-type units that you pop open and replace standard modules. Much less complicated than the green thing.

The $300 IR PAQ I purchased and returned achieved a colimated beam with a single lens. I can buy modules to fit from various US suppliers.

Let me get back into this next week. When i have a better sense of what I'm doing with the green, perhaps I can send you the whole original first unit to see what you make of it once it's in your hands. ;D

Thanks again!
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Old 03-19-2008, 05:49 PM #25
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

it could be simply a better glass lens, compared to those crummy axis-style plastic lens
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Old 03-20-2008, 05:29 AM #26
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

I'd be happy to look it over and see what I can make of the whole assembly. *I've no doubt that we can drop down the power on the existing diode in it and clean up the lens once it's unassembled. *However having buggered up the screw focus on the one may make it impossible to remove. *We'll see. I'd even be willing to pay for shipping in the states (I love projects like this)
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Old 04-11-2008, 03:59 AM #27
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Default Re: Green lasersight hack - pics - need ideas!

"should" you have an IR filter for any greeny?
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